410 Gauge For Home Defense?

[KCabbage]

I doubt there is a man alive that would keep coming.

I doubt that.

BAGTIC, Thats a real nice thing that that 16 year old boy did. Break the law much??? You must have been with him if you quoted that it dropped on the spot, How else would you have known that for sure. I think he needs to have his hunting license yanked and pay a few fines. It might make him think about it a little harder if theres a next time(hopefully not!) I hope I never catch him doing that in my neck of the woods, I wont be so nice. I love it when people admit to breaking the law in public and hopefully he gets caught when possibly a LEO shows up on the doorstep asking questions.

Whoa, you'd think someone just slapped his child.
I understand your anger and it's a good thing you feel that way.
I also like the way he took responsibility for his actions.

As far as using the .410 goes, some people use what their comfortable with, some learn to use something more powerful, and some use more power than they can handle. As long as your ammunition is close, meets, or exceeds the FBI requirement your good to go. A .410 is better than nothing.
I personally use a 12 gauge with low recoil 00 buckshot. Although I can handle full power loads and shoot them quite well, I've seen the power of the low recoil loads and their good enough for me.
Take care guys.

[mikenbarb]

BAGTIC, You should really think about what you post when its admiting to a crime in public, and if your going to post something, You should post its entire story and not just the parts that are against the law. Sorry if I blew off a little but you should look at what you posted. We are a group of members here that obey the law and if something like that is posted, Im gonna say what I think. And dont give me the self righteous bull because your wrong! Dont post things that are against the law and I wont go off on it. Its funny that the story ended with him turning himself in.lol. Posts like that give the antis another thing to throw down on the table. Think about it, I have. Oh, And I have never heard of a Fish and Game division taking a poached deer for food. Its against their policy in my state and they go to a landfill because they have no idea what the animal has had done to it by the person that is getting in trouble with the law or how long its been laying. Im sure the deer the kid shot was laying around for a while considering that after he shot it he went home, told his dad, then they both back went and looked at it to confirm what the kid had done, and after the father confimed it with his son, called the authoritys on his own son. Hmmmm, dont sound rite to me.

[dabigguns357]

I now have a question about the 410 slug's worth.What is the 410 slug comparable to as far as size,the 357,45 or the 45 long colt.It would seem to me that if it were even close to any one of these rounds that it would be enough for home defense.Yes i love the thunder of using my 12 gauge with a Win platnuim tip sabot slug but i know my wife couldn't handle it much less shoot it.Now the 410,she is getting very accurate with and i feel safer knowing i can leave and she will take care of things.(brush,floss,flush,and shoot the bad guy).

[mikenbarb]

dabig, its almost the same as a 45 Long Colt.

[dabigguns357]

Thanks mikenbarb for your advice last month in helping me make a choice in a shotgun for my wife and son.Now i feel even safer with a 410 in our house.

[mikenbarb]

You got it! Im glad your happy with your choice. How does the wife and son like it?

[dabigguns357]

The wife is finaly getting in to my kinda sport now and my son said to me that he WILL joining me for the hunt this year with HIS new 410.I'm kinda excited to see how he will do..Now if i can only talk my wife into going hunting

[mikenbarb]

Glad to hear it! Tell your son good luck and be safe with his new .410 bore.

[KCabbage]

dabig, its almost the same as a 45 Long Colt

I beg to differ.

The .45LC is a .45 caliber bullet weighing twice the amount of a .410 slug(give or take) and moving at a much slower velocity.

The .410 slug is a .40 caliber bullet.
It's average weight is 87 to 114 grains.
While it has array of velocities, it seems the average .410 slug moves at least as fast as the .357 magnum usually faster.
Its energy at close range is said to be between the .357 mag and the .41 mag.
I don't know how true this is but i've read the .410 slug is comparable to a .40 caliber muzzle loader.

Take care

[mikenbarb]

What??? A .410 bore slug weighs 1/2 oz. and you can get heavier. There are 437.5 grains in an ounce. You do the math. But I come up with a 1/2 oz. at 218.75 grains. A .410 bore doesnt shoot a .40cal. bullet and it shoots a lead slug made for a .410 bore.
PS- A .45LC bullet weighs from 200-250 grains. A .41 caliber bullet weighs 210 grains+ so I dont know where your info came from. Also, A 45LC has a velocity of 1350fps with 19.9 grains of 2400 powder.

[KCabbage]

You do the math

No, I think you need to

What??? A .410 bore slug weighs 1/2 oz. and you can get heavier. There are 437.5 grains in an ounce. You do the math. But I come up with a 1/2 oz. at 218.75 grains.

Where do you get that info? I know I didnt' say a .410 slug weighs a 1/2 ounce. The average .410 slug weighs 1/4 an ounce. You can get heavier shot loads, but not slugs.

A .410 bore doesnt shoot a .40cal. bullet and it shoots a lead slug made for a .410 bore.

Oh please forgive me for not being technical.
A slug is a lead projectile. What do you think a bullet is?

A .41 caliber bullet weighs 210 grains+ so I dont know where your info came from.

Where did I claim that was untrue? I compared energy, not weight.
The .41 actually starts at 170grs. and you could probably find a specialty load lighter than that, but i'm not sure.

A 45LC has a velocity of 1350fps with 19.9 grains of 2400 powder.

Would that happen to be custom load?
What don't you understand? The 45LC is usually more than twice the weight of the .410 and moves much slower.
I think you need to research the .410 before you challenge my information.

[dabigguns357]

the real question is will the 410 round at say 10 feet poke a hole through the bad guy and kill or at least render him usless.

[mikenbarb]

You said they(45lc) weight double of a 410 slug and im looking at a box of 1/2 oz 410 slugs. And its called a slug or a bullet for a reason. I was looking at when you compared speed and not energy. They are seperate types of bullets but not the same and the load info is out of Hornadys 3rd edition on pg. 381. And I am reading from reloading books and not just quoting off the top of my head. So if the info I gave is wrong, The Hornady reloading manual is wrong.
And heck yeah, A 410 slug or buckshot will kill a human without a problem, Dead as can be.
BULLET= COORS Silver.lol
And I do alot of reading on all load data, not just what I load for.

[KCabbage]

Dabigguns, I researched a gelatin test for the .410 and all I could find is a Winchester 1/5 ounce rifled slug and a buckshot load. The slug load is from a 18" barrel. It hit at a velocity of 1782fps and penetrated a total of 8.7", although the majority of the damage was within the first 5" with two tiny lead peices penetrating to 8.7".
The first 5" was a huge eruption.
The Winchester 410 bore 3” shell, 5 pellets of unplated 000 buckshot seemed to do better penetration wise.
Check out Brassfetcher.com find the big red and white triangle and click OLD.
I'm sure you can find more testing if you search.
I am not current on all the newer .410 loads if any, but if you want a solid slug the Brenneke slug does very well.
You might even want to alternate the shells in the gun with slug, buckshot, slug, buckshot and so on. You would have a lethal combo in my opinion.

Mike, it seems you are going off of reloading data. I on the other hand am relaying data from factory loads which are attainable to everyone.
As far as your 1/2 ounce .410 slug, is this a box of slugs for reloading?
I said the average .410 slug is 87 to 114 grains, fact! Take a look at all factory available loads and try to tell me different.
A slug is a lead projectile, fact. A bullet is a projectile made of metal(usually lead), fact. A 9mm bullet is a slug. A .410 is a slug. Let it go.

Take care

[mikenbarb]

"think you need to research the .410 before you challenge my information."
"I am not current on all the newer .410 loads if any, but if you want a solid slug the Brenneke slug does very well"
Make my mind up.^
Ummmm, I think the reloading data in books comes from the powder and bullet companies so I guess I did research it.
The 1/2 oz. is an over the counter Brenneke from Gander that I bought last November.
Im done.

[guntotin_fool]

before you knock your wifes ability to shoot a bigger gun, mind you lots of teen age girls nation wide shoot 12 and 20 gauge guns as sporting clays and trap and skeet high school trap shooters.

Find a youth gun, let her try it, and let her use mild trap or skeet loads for practice. KEEP the slugs and buckshot out the picture, only keep it in the bedroom drawer. After a while of letting her shoot lite loads, she may be able to handle duck or goose loads, and those will teach her about recoil management.



IF she ever has to fire the gun against someone in anger. believe me, she will never feel the recoil of the slugs or buckshot when she has to. The stress of the initial confrontation with bad guys will completely override any issues recoil will bring up.

get a good 20 or a 12 and let her shoot it a lot at the range, when shes comfy breaking clays, any fear about shooting the gun when bad guys are breaking in will be gone.

[KCabbage]

Make my mind up.^

What are you talking about?
The Brenneke slug I mentioned weighs a 1/4 an ounce.
I can't find any slug loads weighing a 1/2 ounce. I even checked out the Brenneke website and only found a 1/4 load.
If this load does exist, Brenneke must call it the phantom load since it cannot be found.

Ummmm, I think the reloading data in books comes from the powder and bullet companies

It sure does

[mikenbarb]

They got em up Gander Mntn. so I dont know why its not in their site. Anyway, Im done and dont need to keep debating over the weight of a slug. I know what I have and its a real life 1/2 oz 410 slug.

[KCabbage]

I know what I have and its a real life 1/2 oz 410 slug.

Sure it is

[darkgael]

Mikenbarb:"A .410 bore slug weighs 1/2 oz. and you can get heavier." Nice.
Where can I get those 1/2oz slugs? Who makes them? Sells them?
I reload for the .410 and have been unable to find any slugs for reloading heavier than 1/4oz.; 1/2oz would be useful. Factory ammo seems all to be 1/5 to 1/4. You wrote that you had a box of 1/2oz slugs. Any info about them will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Pete

PS: Sorry about that. Missed the Gander Mt./Brenneke info. Reading too fast. Still cannot find them, though.

[dabigguns357]

Guntotin fool please go back to post 27 in this thread and see what iv'e writen about my wife shooting a 12g,20g and 410.It was so hard for her and my son to shoot the bigger shotguns that it became painful and they kept wanting to stop,so i finaly gave in and let them try a 410,with a little coaxing i was able to get them past the shock and start shooting again.I think someone here once said that you should be comfortable with what you shoot or you won't be happy.I now see that is true,my wife now wants to go shooting more and my son wants to join me on hunts this coming season with his new 410.not all jobs are right for everyone well neither are guns.They love the 410 and i love my 12g.

Oh 2 of the guns they tried were youth models and we were using 2 3/4 low brass 7 shot.

[mikenbarb]

darkgael, I stated where i got them. From Gander last November and if I could do pics, I would post so everyone would drop it and realize they make heavier than 1/4 oz. Also, I can mold you some that are 1/2 and 5/8 oz. oz. I believe Brenneke GMBH also has the heavy 410's in the Rubin Sabot and the Super Magnum. Shoot me a pm if your interested. Its a round nose soft lead similar to a maxi ball look. I can make them hard cast if you want but the soft is better. I think your the first person that I heard of reloading .410 slugs besides myself and a couple others that I shoot with. Shoot me a pm with your info and I will send you a sample one.
This reminds me of when I said that I was loading Brenneke Torpedo bullets(TIG,TUG&TOG type) and everyone thought I was nuts because they never heard of them. Finally, someone knew what I was talking about and were listed from Brenneke Germany(GMBH) and were sold in the states in the 60's and early 70's and discontinued and going to be reintroduced in the states real soon.

[BullpupBen]

MY suggestion would be to get a Saiga .410, cut down the stock a bit if need be, and put a recoil pad on.

That way it will have even less recoil than a normal .410, will be small enough, and even though its a .410 she can pump multiple rounds into the bad guy if need be.

Also dont be quick to underestimate .410, with slugs it has the same kenetic energy as a .44 Magnum. I dont think the buckshot would be anything to scoff at.

Dont get anything thats pistol-grip only, its much harder to aim and the recoil will still make it hard for her to get follow up shots.

[Deerhunter264]

410 is a caliber and not a guage because it is not measure like a shotgun

[mikenbarb]

Its called a .410 BORE! +1 deerhunter.