patch insert stuck

mendozer · November 11, 2015, 02:21 AM

So I used my bore guide for the first time tonight. The patch got stuck going through, no matter how hard I pushed and I couldn't pull it out either. So I made the idiot mistake of unthreading the rod from the insert, and now I can't get it back on, or figure out how to get the entire insert out now.

I've tried tapping it out from muzzle end to no avail. I've lubed it all up again with no help.

Help!

leadcounsel · November 11, 2015, 04:01 AM

Search the threads. Seen this before but don't recall how it was removed. It may have involved a solvent or flame. Don't recall.

Mobuck · November 11, 2015, 07:30 AM

A: don't "lube it" anymore, that might swell the patch making it tighter.
B: either take it to a gunsmith or start looking for a brass rod as close to bore diameter as possible
C:don't try using a wooden dowel
D:before attempting removal, determine where the patch is and which way is closer to one end.
E: I've heard of folks heating the barrel in an attempt to "burn the patch out" but I wouldn't do this to one of my rifles.

MJFlores · November 11, 2015, 09:41 AM

I assume you were going in through the breech, so tap it out from the muzzle end. Usually once you get it to move an inch or so it comes out...usually. Try to thread that rod back on, without the bore guide so someone can be pulling on it while you tap from the muzzle end.if you dont have a brass rod you can try a hardwood dowel carefully...you dont want it to split and create a wedge in there. You map not need much pressure with the dowel is someone is also pulling on the cleaning rod, if you can thread it back on.

T. O'Heir · November 11, 2015, 01:14 PM

"...C: don't try using a wooden dowel..." It's actually DON'T USE A WOODEN DOWEL!!!!! snicker. Wood can get soaked with whatever solvent you used, swell and get stuck worse than any patch ever will.
Brass rod(1/4" for .30 cal. 3/8" for .45 cal.) and a plastic mallet from the muzzle.
Oh and it wasn't caused by the bore guide.

mendozer · November 11, 2015, 05:22 PM

I know it's not caused by the bore guide, but the patch itself. They're the 3x3 squares and I guess it was just too big. I don't know why I can't thread it. I can feel it slipping into the threads a bit but it doens't bite. Odd since I unthreaded it straight out.

Wendyj · November 11, 2015, 05:26 PM

I had that happen in a 30-30. Husband took pump pellet rifle. No pellets and finally blew it out. We were afraid of damaging the crown.

ottis · November 11, 2015, 06:52 PM

Try clorox my wife did to my carharts, it work on them.

mendozer · November 11, 2015, 06:58 PM

bleach in a barrel? I don't know how I feel about that. What's the purpose?

F. Guffey · November 11, 2015, 07:11 PM

3x3" square? I make a bore cleaning devise, it is impossible to lock up or jam up. And I cut my own patches. Before I would start with a 3X3" patch I would work up from 1 1/2 X 1 1/2" patches.

My jam free cleaner does not use patches.

F. Guffey

Smoke & Recoil · November 11, 2015, 07:22 PM

Sulfuric acid or bleach will rot the cotton patch in short order, than clean
the bore as soon as the patch is out.

Mobuck · November 12, 2015, 07:20 AM

"Sulfuric acid or bleach will rot the cotton patch in short order, than clean
the bore as soon as the patch is out."

I'd try a lot of other options before going that route.

JWT · November 12, 2015, 03:03 PM

I cannot fathom using acid on the barrel of a gun. Bleach, perhaps, but acid never.

wogpotter · November 12, 2015, 04:58 PM

Not all acids attack all metals. The trick is to pick one that attacks fabric but not steel.
A while back someone tore an alloy bolt off inside a blind hole. it was removed by dissolving the alloy of the bolt without attacking the steel.

Snyper · November 12, 2015, 07:16 PM

Clamp a rubber hose to the muzzle and clamp the other end onto the nozzle from an air compressor.

Stick some rags in the action to catch the plug when you blow it out

mehavey · November 12, 2015, 07:25 PM

I'd modify that to run the hose into the breech end.
(Otherwise the OP is pushing/jamming the patch against a natural "sea anchor" expansion effect.

Mobuck · November 12, 2015, 09:06 PM

"Clamp a rubber hose to the muzzle and clamp the other end onto the nozzle from an air compressor"
You realize that the actual force applied depends on the bore in square inches X the air pressure. 100 psi in a .22 bore will net you about 3.8 # of force. I can apply far more force than that by striking a .20 brass rod with a 2# hammer.

MJFlores · November 13, 2015, 03:20 AM

I am in NO WAY suggesting that the poster should try this, but the experimenter in me wonders something. What if you were to load 1 grain of pistol powder into a case, top it off with compressed dry oatmeal, and fire that in the chamber. Would it clear the obstruction? Again, dont anybody try this please...this is hypothetical thinking and nothing more. I kinda would like to see Myth busters do something like this. Has anyone ever heard of this being done to clear an obstruction that's not forced too tightly in the bore such as what occurred here? A stuck bullet is obviously a different animal all together in how tight it is and how well it's sealing the bore given the bullet's diameter.

Roughedge · November 13, 2015, 06:24 AM

Take your air compressor and turn it up to 125 pound and use the nozzle with a rubber tip on it and blow it out. I have people come in with stuck bullets in the muzzle loaders all the time and I blow them out.

F. Guffey · November 13, 2015, 09:56 AM

Seems I remember a story about a monkey that swallowed something or attempted to swallow something and choked or something else went wrong, anyhow, after that the monkey 'micked' everything before swallowing.

A 3"X3" patch plus the jag could be a little tight. I suggest you not thread the patch through the jag like threading thread through the eye of a needle. Reversing the patch causes it to fold over itself and increase in diameter. I suggest you simply push the patch through, if something goes wrong all you have in the barrel is the patch, not a jag with a patch threaded through it.

F. Guffey

F. Guffey · November 13, 2015, 10:34 AM

Quote:

I know it's not caused by the bore guide, but the patch itself. They're the 3x3 squares and I guess it was just too big. I don't know why I can't thread it. I can feel it slipping into the threads a bit but it doens't bite. Odd since I unthreaded it straight out.

Fishing: There are different methods and techniques. I have no clue what the diameter of the barrel is. I suggest you find a tube that will fit the barrel and cleaning rod at the same time. The material of the tube should be barrel friendly.

F. Guffey

Mobuck · November 13, 2015, 08:16 PM

"I have people come in with stuck bullets in the muzzle loaders all the time and I blow them out."

Keep in mind that a .50 bore has nearly 6 x the area of a .22 bore and 2.5 X the area of a .30 bore. Even the .50 cal @ 125 psi is transferring only 21# of force.

mapsjanhere · November 16, 2015, 05:49 PM

Some extra info would help, like what type of gun and what caliber. Nevertheless, if mechanical removal doesn't work, your typical patch holder will melt at 200 F, so if you can take the barrel out of the stock and warm it slowly with a heat gun that might help. I would not use bleach as it normally doesn't do much to cotton directly. VERY dilute sulfuric acid, 0.5%, should do the trick so by making the cotton water soluble, every chemist can tell you that from experience. But that requires that you get the oil out of the patch first, some xylene would be great for that.

mendozer · November 16, 2015, 06:20 PM

I haven't had the chance to try this again since posting, been busy.

It's a Savage 30/06. My patch holder is brass so that shouldn't melt. I was going to try lighting a match then pushing said match from the breech with my bore rod to burn the patch. I would think it might die out before reaching it though.

mehavey · November 16, 2015, 06:25 PM

Have you tried the air compressor suggestion yet?

November 11, 2015, 02:21 AM	#1
mendozer Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2013 Posts: 235	patch insert stuck So I used my bore guide for the first time tonight. The patch got stuck going through, no matter how hard I pushed and I couldn't pull it out either. So I made the idiot mistake of unthreading the rod from the insert, and now I can't get it back on, or figure out how to get the entire insert out now. I've tried tapping it out from muzzle end to no avail. I've lubed it all up again with no help. Help!

November 11, 2015, 01:14 PM	#5
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...C: don't try using a wooden dowel..." It's actually DON'T USE A WOODEN DOWEL!!!!! snicker. Wood can get soaked with whatever solvent you used, swell and get stuck worse than any patch ever will. Brass rod(1/4" for .30 cal. 3/8" for .45 cal.) and a plastic mallet from the muzzle. Oh and it wasn't caused by the bore guide. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

November 11, 2015, 05:26 PM	#7
Wendyj Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2015 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,372	I had that happen in a 30-30. Husband took pump pellet rifle. No pellets and finally blew it out. We were afraid of damaging the crown. __________________ God is NOT dead!!!!

November 11, 2015, 07:22 PM	#11
Smoke & Recoil Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: East shore of Lake Michigan. Posts: 714	Sulfuric acid or bleach will rot the cotton patch in short order, than clean the bore as soon as the patch is out. __________________ Sent from my Tandy 1000

November 12, 2015, 04:58 PM	#14
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Not all acids attack all metals. The trick is to pick one that attacks fabric but not steel. A while back someone tore an alloy bolt off inside a blind hole. it was removed by dissolving the alloy of the bolt without attacking the steel. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

November 11, 2015, 04:01 AM	#2
leadcounsel Junior member Join Date: September 8, 2005 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 2,119	Search the threads. Seen this before but don't recall how it was removed. It may have involved a solvent or flame. Don't recall.

November 11, 2015, 07:30 AM	#3
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	A: don't "lube it" anymore, that might swell the patch making it tighter. B: either take it to a gunsmith or start looking for a brass rod as close to bore diameter as possible C:don't try using a wooden dowel D:before attempting removal, determine where the patch is and which way is closer to one end. E: I've heard of folks heating the barrel in an attempt to "burn the patch out" but I wouldn't do this to one of my rifles.

November 11, 2015, 09:41 AM	#4
MJFlores Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2013 Posts: 539	I assume you were going in through the breech, so tap it out from the muzzle end. Usually once you get it to move an inch or so it comes out...usually. Try to thread that rod back on, without the bore guide so someone can be pulling on it while you tap from the muzzle end.if you dont have a brass rod you can try a hardwood dowel carefully...you dont want it to split and create a wedge in there. You map not need much pressure with the dowel is someone is also pulling on the cleaning rod, if you can thread it back on.

November 11, 2015, 05:22 PM	#6
mendozer Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2013 Posts: 235	I know it's not caused by the bore guide, but the patch itself. They're the 3x3 squares and I guess it was just too big. I don't know why I can't thread it. I can feel it slipping into the threads a bit but it doens't bite. Odd since I unthreaded it straight out.

November 11, 2015, 06:52 PM	#8
ottis Junior Member Join Date: November 10, 2015 Posts: 10	Try clorox my wife did to my carharts, it work on them.

November 11, 2015, 06:58 PM	#9
mendozer Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2013 Posts: 235	bleach in a barrel? I don't know how I feel about that. What's the purpose?

November 11, 2015, 07:11 PM	#10
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	3x3" square? I make a bore cleaning devise, it is impossible to lock up or jam up. And I cut my own patches. Before I would start with a 3X3" patch I would work up from 1 1/2 X 1 1/2" patches. My jam free cleaner does not use patches. F. Guffey

November 12, 2015, 07:20 AM	#12
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	"Sulfuric acid or bleach will rot the cotton patch in short order, than clean the bore as soon as the patch is out." I'd try a lot of other options before going that route.

November 12, 2015, 03:03 PM	#13
JWT Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2007 Location: Southern Arizona Posts: 3,888	I cannot fathom using acid on the barrel of a gun. Bleach, perhaps, but acid never.

November 12, 2015, 07:16 PM	#15
Snyper Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2013 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 3,047	Clamp a rubber hose to the muzzle and clamp the other end onto the nozzle from an air compressor. Stick some rags in the action to catch the plug when you blow it out __________________ One shot, one kill

November 12, 2015, 07:25 PM	#16
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,894	I'd modify that to run the hose into the breech end. (Otherwise the OP is pushing/jamming the patch against a natural "sea anchor" expansion effect.

November 12, 2015, 09:06 PM	#17
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	"Clamp a rubber hose to the muzzle and clamp the other end onto the nozzle from an air compressor" You realize that the actual force applied depends on the bore in square inches X the air pressure. 100 psi in a .22 bore will net you about 3.8 # of force. I can apply far more force than that by striking a .20 brass rod with a 2# hammer.

November 13, 2015, 03:20 AM	#18
MJFlores Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2013 Posts: 539	I am in NO WAY suggesting that the poster should try this, but the experimenter in me wonders something. What if you were to load 1 grain of pistol powder into a case, top it off with compressed dry oatmeal, and fire that in the chamber. Would it clear the obstruction? Again, dont anybody try this please...this is hypothetical thinking and nothing more. I kinda would like to see Myth busters do something like this. Has anyone ever heard of this being done to clear an obstruction that's not forced too tightly in the bore such as what occurred here? A stuck bullet is obviously a different animal all together in how tight it is and how well it's sealing the bore given the bullet's diameter.

November 13, 2015, 06:24 AM	#19
Roughedge Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Location: Monroe,NC Posts: 669	Take your air compressor and turn it up to 125 pound and use the nozzle with a rubber tip on it and blow it out. I have people come in with stuck bullets in the muzzle loaders all the time and I blow them out. __________________ The man that die's with the most stuff win's!

November 13, 2015, 09:56 AM	#20
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	Seems I remember a story about a monkey that swallowed something or attempted to swallow something and choked or something else went wrong, anyhow, after that the monkey 'micked' everything before swallowing. A 3"X3" patch plus the jag could be a little tight. I suggest you not thread the patch through the jag like threading thread through the eye of a needle. Reversing the patch causes it to fold over itself and increase in diameter. I suggest you simply push the patch through, if something goes wrong all you have in the barrel is the patch, not a jag with a patch threaded through it. F. Guffey

November 13, 2015, 08:16 PM	#22
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	"I have people come in with stuck bullets in the muzzle loaders all the time and I blow them out." Keep in mind that a .50 bore has nearly 6 x the area of a .22 bore and 2.5 X the area of a .30 bore. Even the .50 cal @ 125 psi is transferring only 21# of force.

November 16, 2015, 05:49 PM	#23
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Some extra info would help, like what type of gun and what caliber. Nevertheless, if mechanical removal doesn't work, your typical patch holder will melt at 200 F, so if you can take the barrel out of the stock and warm it slowly with a heat gun that might help. I would not use bleach as it normally doesn't do much to cotton directly. VERY dilute sulfuric acid, 0.5%, should do the trick so by making the cotton water soluble, every chemist can tell you that from experience. But that requires that you get the oil out of the patch first, some xylene would be great for that. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

November 16, 2015, 06:20 PM	#24
mendozer Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2013 Posts: 235	I haven't had the chance to try this again since posting, been busy. It's a Savage 30/06. My patch holder is brass so that shouldn't melt. I was going to try lighting a match then pushing said match from the breech with my bore rod to burn the patch. I would think it might die out before reaching it though.

November 16, 2015, 06:25 PM	#25
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,894	Have you tried the air compressor suggestion yet?