Winchester supergrade 338 winmag won't shoot. Need help please

[RIDE-RED 350r]

Thank you for the input MJFLores.

I will certainly be working with it more but for now I'm hunting with it.

I plan to give my load recipe a little more push of IMR4350 for the next test session. I stopped at 71.5gr compressed where Hodgdon listed 72gr compressed was the limit in their testing. I did note some improvement the harder I pushed the 225gr SST's. But after reading some advice here, I will also being paying much closer attention to my form in shooting and improving it where deficiencies are noted.

If still not satisfied I am considering trying lighter bullets. Also plan to experiment with a little forend pressure as well if more load experimentation doesn't yield results.

[Boogershooter]

Received a phone call this morning from the gun shop. They tried several different loads and the fusion did produce the best groups. Inch and a half groups at 100. That's not really what I call accurate but I guess it's good enough for hunting. Not gona rebarrel now but may look into it in the future. Trigger is on the way and I will pick up the rifle thursday.

[ligonierbill]

That hits the proverbial pie plate at 600. My Savage doesn't do any better, with one exception. Barnes 210's do 1", so that's my varmint load.

[Picher]

First, you probably haven't really completely free-floated the barrel. If there's only a dollar bill space, the barrel will vibrate and bounce off the channel. I like 1/16" minimum spacing, more with heavy-recoiling cartridges.

The Winchester 70 actions tend to move around in the stock unless bedded, preferably, a combination of action bedding and pillar-bedding. Only as a LAST resort would I suggest a pressure pad in the forend, but some rifles like them. Make sure it has at least 3 lbs. of uplift, preferably 5 lbs. It may give good groups then, but will be less tolerant of how the forend is rested.

The suggestion to use a lead-sled or similar rest is very good. It's hard to shoot a good group when you keep getting belted in the shoulder as you lean into the rifle.

The last thing I'd suspect is the barrel. In all my years of working on rifles and shooting them, I've never encountered a bad Winchester barrel. It's possible, but highly unlikely.

[Paul B.]

My Winchester .338 Win. Mag. isn't a Super Grade, but is the Stainless Classic as I was looking for an all weather rifle. The only problem is the darn thing beats me to death. The worst thing about the rifle is the very cheap injection molded piece of Tupperware that call a stock. Very flimsy forearm. That was a few years back. Fast forward to about a month ago and now the rifle sports a McMillan stock in the design similar to the Winchester Featherweights with the schnable at the tip of the forearm. Thing still kicked the unholy bejabbers out of me so I had a thicker Pachmeyr Decelerator put on the stock and a muzzle brake at the front. Kind of strange looking in a way with what appears to be a 28.5" barrel due to the brake but damned it I don't like the look. I really think it has a very cool and businesslike look to it. I still have to shoot it but cannot find a single box of Winchester brand .338 mag ammo in town. I found one box of some pricey premium ammo but I'm not about to pay almost $75 for one box of army. The cheaper silver box ammo will do just fine for my purposes of taking case head and pressure ring measurements. I have more than enough brass and can just do a load work up but would prefer to get those measurements first.
Regarding accuracy, all I can say is in the Tupperware stock accuracy was zilch, nada and none. I'll admit that I may have also flinched a bit after the first couple of shots but I shoot guns a lot bigger and heavier than that .338 and they didn't hurt me light the .338.
I'll follow up after I get to shoot it a bit with some factory ammo.
Paul B.

[Boogershooter]

Thanks for the info guys. The timney trigger will b n today and they said the bedding of the action was superb from the factory. A different guy is gona shoot the gun that is used to shooting 338 lapuas and 50 Cal barrets. Honestly this rifle has alot of shove but no sharp pain on the shoulder. I have shot it in a led sled and also a leather vice. I have several rifles that hurt to shoot, this one doesnt. My wife videos me shooting so I can see if there are any flaws in my abilities. I'm not a flincher. I realized long ago that it's only a half second of boom and recoil. It doesn't hurt. I grew up shooting trap and skeet with a 5 1/2 lb 20 gauge. I'd rather shoot 3 times concentrated than 10 times flinching. Buy good optics and don't shoot uphill and the scope will never hurt you. If you catch yourself flinching, get set on the rifle; close your eyes and count to 3; then start concentrating on feeling the trigger. After the gun scared the fudge out of you, you just forgot the feel of the trigger. Do it all over again and when you realize that the gun never hurt you and you shot it twice with your eyes closed you will no longer be scared of it.

[skizzums]

so the gun shop called and stated rifle is shooting 1.5"? was anything done to the rifle? or is this the same configuration since your original post? just wondering if a problem was solved or if it just ended up being the shooter. not giving you grief if that's the case, the largest rifle I have shot is 30-06's, and although I can mange decent groups, it's not pleasant from the lightweight Mossberg Patriot's polymer stock, wonderful from a Garand though. I could only imagine I would need a good bit of practice to get comfy with a 338mag.

I was just curious since you were claiming 4" to over 8" groups and now confirmed at 1.5", what was the verdict? were any problems addressed with the mounts/bedding etc? lapping or anything?

okay, I see it here, sorry

First thing they did was put leupold mark 4 rings. Ordered a new vx3 scope

I wish they had tried shooting it before swapping rings to single out if their was actually an issue

[RIDE-RED 350r]

Hmm.... I have Leupold 2-piece bases and dovetail rings... I too would like to have known how they shot it with the old scope, rings and bases setup.

I am pretty confident that my scope is fine. It worked quite well on 2 other 30-06 rifles, one being a shorter barreled Savage and the other a Remmy 700 CDL.

[Boogershooter]

Sorry I wasn't clear on the 1.5 inch group. That was with the 225 grain fusions. They tried the 200 grain sst's because that's what I truly want to shoot out of the rifle but they had same results as me. Nothing that really could be considered a group at 100 yards. He said he thinks the gun may can do better but the 2 1/2 lb trigger pull was too much for him. He's used to 6 ounce triggers. He said he caught his self tensing up before the trigger broke. He also tried the 200 grain power points but only slightly better results than the sst's. Around 4 inches. Maybe this rifle is just a real picky eater but I've never seen that big of a difference in factory loads at 100 yards. I'm not gona try the 250 grain bullets because that puts the recoil at a level I'm not gona tolerate well. The 300 remington ultra mag I owned for a week was past my level so I'm gona stay shy of the heavy loads for the 338 winmag.

[RIDE-RED 350r]

Well, I have a little update to share...I feel like an idiot and you all are free to have a laugh at me for it... Here goes


So I was in the woods with my Super Grade today and as I often do, I was fiddling with my rifle a little bit.. I shouldered the rifle and aimed through the scope at a distant tree to have a look and kind of scope the area. I turned the eyepiece (proper nomenclature??) to adjust and noticed that the eyepiece was loose and wiggled!! So, I lowered the rifle and had a look, sure enough the whole dang eyepiece wiggled. Shouldered it again, steadied it on my knee and wiggled the eyepiece again while looking through the scope at that same tree and the crosshairs moved their point of aim along with the wiggle of the eyepiece. It was then I noticed that my scope has a locking ring that is supposed to be threaded up against the eyepiece to lock it in place. Once I did that the eyepiece is firmly set and no longer wiggles. I am cautiously optimistic that this is the reason I was getting erratic shot groups as I am sure that the eyepiece was wiggling around during recoil causing shifts in my point of aim. It explains why scope adjustments at times would show no change, and at other times show significantly more change than they should have. It also explains why my ammo I made to be tuned to my rifle chamber didn't yield significantly improved results.

This never dawned on me because the only other scope I own is the only other scope I have experience with and it does not have this locking ring for the eyepiece. Only part of the eyepiece turns on that scope where this scope on the Super Grade the entire eyepiece turns.

Now tomorrow I am going to fire the rifle again and see if the groups tighten up now that the eyepiece won't be wiggling around. I do not plan to hunt with this rifle now until I fire it again as I expect I will need to make some adjustments to dial in the zero.



Wish me luck!

[Boogershooter]

I had originally wanted a jewel instead of timney trigger. They called the next day and said they found a jewel so that put me behind another day. They called Monday morning to inform me the jewel came in but didn't even come close to fitting. So they then reordered the timney. Maybe by Thursday I will b Shooting this rifle again.

[RIDE-RED 350r]

Well, as optimistic as I was that I found my issue, I returned from firing a few rounds still disappointed.

Laid down in the prone position with the aid of a basic sled I made about a 4 1/2" group at 100yds.

1st rounds landed almost perfect windage but nearly 6" high.

2nd round was 1.5" left and 1.5" high.

3rd round landed 3" left and 3" high.

4th round landed almost perfect windage at 1.5" high

5th landed 1" left and 5" high...

I am confident I sent good shots downrange.

I have cleaned the rifle and put it away as it is the middle of deer season here and I am not going to hunt this rifle shooting like it does. My goal was to group descent at about 1.5" high at 100yds. This is unacceptable to me.

Next plan is to swap the scope from my Rem 700 ADL that is a proven reliable scope onto the Super Grade and see what happens. I probably won't get around to this for a few weeks as I am out of the powder I need to make more rounds and not sure when my local suppliers will have more.. but I will post results of the experiment when I get it done. I feel that this is the next logical step. If I get the same results, I guess I need to play with the ammo more.. But I have already taken steps in my reloading to tune my ammo to my rifle's chamber that SHOULD have shown some degree of improvement, yet yielded little if any significant improvement. I'm feeling like this is an issue with either the scope or the rifle itself... leaning toward the scope at this point.

[math teacher]

If the scope were the problem, I should think you would have large groups with any ammo. But it won't hurt to try a different scope. It eliminates one variable.

[gman3]

I have a Mod 70 Featherweight Stainless .30-06. I think it may be the most accurate rifle I own. Shoots bug holes at 100 yards, and cloverleaves at 200. I haven't done anything to it but adjust the trigger, which BTW is amazing for a factory trigger. Its a SC built rifle if that makes any difference. I think I would be looking at some other factor besides the rifle.

You may have a lemon, but I doubt it. The quality control at that facility is top tier, and the machine tools are brand new- state of the art technology. I seriously doubt you got a bad rifle.

[RIDE-RED 350r]

Math Teacher: I may or may not have mentioned earlier in this thread that I have fired Hornady Custom and Federal Fusion factory ammo through this rifle before I got tooled up to reload for this cartridge. I had pretty much the same results with that ammo as well.

[RIDE-RED 350r]

My Super Grade shoots well!!! Turns out my scope was bad.

I borrowed a known good scope from my brother and did some shooting today. We weren't at a bench, just brought a simple rest out into the woods and laid prone with it. Wasn't bad but not always the most steady because of the turf (soft ground under mostly hemlock trees).

Anyway, I was able to make 3 holes almost touch at 50yds after sighting in.

We then moved the target out to 100yds and of course the group opened a bit. I shot about 3". No it's not MOA, but it is WORLDS more consistent than it was previously when shooting at the same location. I am sure that a touch of fatigue was probably setting in by this time as well. I am comfortable enough in my sexuality to admit that! LOL!

Beyond this, I am sure I can tighten these groups more with some shooting from a bonified bench and tuning my ammo. It should be noted that I loaded 20rds for today's session and they were made with virgin new Hornady brass. So, not fire formed to my chamber and headspacing off the belt. I feel SO much better about this rifle now!!

I know this thread is getting old, but I though that Boogershooter and some others might want to know.

[Boogershooter]

Thanks red ride. I'm still aggregated with mine. It definitely likes the longer heavier bullets but my shoulder doesnt. I shoot whitetail deer down here so I don't care to shoot the 250's. I harvested a small spike with this rifle aND the 200 grain sst's. He was eating peanut butter rice bran at exactly 100 yards facing dead at me. DRT with a shot thru the chest. No exit with the bullet but vitals were destroyed and very Lil meat damage to the shoulders. 200 grain bullets shoot around 2 inch group. 225's just a Lil better and the 250's get close to a inch. Brand doesn't seem to matter as much as weight from what I see. I havnt looked yet but I may look aND see if I can find some really soft 250 grain bullets. Berger vld's or something then go visit my reloading buddy.

[fairview mick]

It took along time to get the load that the rifle likes, I have a Swarovski 4x12, and thought it was bad. It was not. the gun is very finicky. It loves Nosler accubonds, 225 grain, with the oal at spec. the load is with h-4350. I also had a great group with h1000, 69.5 grains with Hdy 225 sst's. E mail me at [email protected] and I'll give you about 4 recipes that are good with that gun. No overloads, or dangerous pressure. I check every primer etc, after each shot, and I am very cautious about that. Rl 22 and 19 did not work for me, and neither did Imr 4831. Imr 4831 in my 300 w/m is fantastic, but not the 338. A few times with the 225 accu's, I have patterned a clover leaf, and last week, I put two in the same hole and one about an 1/8 inch away. not all the time, but if I doesn't pattern well, it's because I know I'm jerking trigger.
GREAT GUN

[RIDE-RED 350r]

Ill email you here shortly Fairview Mick.

The load recipe I have been working with is using 225gr SST bullets and IMR4350 powder. I have worked up to Hodgdons max listed charge of 72gr compressed. No charge level from starting charge all the way up to max showed any degree of consistency for me. Once I get another scope (looking hard at Leupold VX-2) I'll get back to tuning the ammo for my rifle and see what it will do. The rounds I made today were with SAAMI spec cases.

This is a totally different rifle with a different scope mounted. Crazy thing is that the scope that worked well for me today was a cheap Bushnell that has taken it's share of deer. LOL! Something apparently just let go in my Pentax.

[MJFlores]

Until the end of the month I believe, if you buy a new VX3, you can get a $100 check mailed back from Leupold. That might help with your scope decision. Check Leupold's site for details.

[mete]

I agree with Picher ! My Kimber Montana .223 would clear a $5 bill barely. I put a shim under the front of the receiver giving me more clearance .That cut the group size in half !! Yes the barrels do vibrate !