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Old October 20, 2015, 09:19 PM   #26
johnwilliamson062
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Most gun owners never shoot beyond 150 yards.
The round performs well for almost all purposes within this range.
The name is catchy.
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Old October 21, 2015, 12:17 AM   #27
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The lighter 110-125 gr bullets are fast enough, but are designed as varmint bullets, not big game bullets.
Thats just not the case. The 110gn Barnes black tip bullet is a GREAT deer/pig/people bullet. Great expansion and good penetration at Blackout speeds.

The BIGGEST mistake people make is attempting to compare the blkout to the 308win....its not supposed to be in that league. Just like a 308 is not a 300 Weatherby.

The 300blk WILL do what a 30/30 will do. Better (more efficient) bullets make up for the initially slower velocities.

It was never designed to be a 500-800 yards Sniper round. It designed to put an efficient round into a short barreled AR without the flash and blast the 556 gives you. Or the corresponding loss of velocity and effectiveness that goes with the 556 in a short tube.

Add in the fact that with just a mag swap, i can go from supers (7.62x39 power) to subsonics (real quiet) with NO OTHER changes or adjustments....just swap ammo.

Did i mention the gun is the size of a MP5?? Super compact...light weight...

I know im starting to sound like a fanboy, but inside the envelop it designed for, the 300blk does very well. When guys try to make it into something its not (like a replacement for a 308win) it is going to disappoint.

If i tried to make a 22lr do what a 223 will do, id be disappointed then as well. Just because its the same bore size, dont make it the same.
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Old October 21, 2015, 02:19 AM   #28
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FYI, Barns black tip 110's are designed to expand down to 1300fps. Works wonders on hogs.
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Old October 21, 2015, 02:42 AM   #29
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The one thing that makes the 300 Black out so versatile is that they designed the chamber to fit those big whoppers.
That means ANY 30 cal bullet can be made to shoot out of it. ANY means 100% utilization.
If you find a mixed grab bag of 30 cal bullets. Stick your hand in and grab some.
You just grabbed some 300 Black out bullets.
And they shoot good too.
I have some 125gr 30-30 fn bullets to try this year. I tried the 150 gr variety and they were very accurate. Plus they fed just fine.
You cant pull that off with any other form factor. Plus with the small case volume. Every load you try will be filling the case 90% plus.
That is a huge deal. It makes reloading almost idiot proof( I said almost) and gives you a very wide range of powder choices.
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Old October 21, 2015, 08:27 AM   #30
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The 110gn Barnes black tip bullet is a GREAT deer/pig/people bullet. Great expansion and good penetration at Blackout speeds.
Yes, but not at subsonic. At supersonic speeds it does great.

Quote:
That means ANY 30 cal bullet can be made to shoot out of it. ANY means 100% utilization.
Kind of. The 240s give most people fits and the 220s do a little depending on OAL and ogive. This is not a chamber issue, but a magazine/cartridge issue. The internal ribs in the magazine are in front of the case neck and in some cases, that little bump from the case neck or ogive can push the cartridge out of alignment which can upset chambering and that is one reason I run a full mass carrier in 300BO. There is only one commercial loading of 240 grain slugs that I am aware of, but I do believe there will be some good 200-240 grain bullets showing up in the near future. IMHO, that is still needed to establish the 300BO as a contender for general SD used.

Just realize that 30 caliber rifle bullets won't reliably expand at 300BO subsonic velocities. I got some of the "Experimental" sub-sonic bullets that skizzums referenced and the performance is not there. Maybe 15% of the rounds I fired into denim over gel and fackler boxes (I use newsprint and glycerin) performed acceptably. I have tried a few (they sent me 10) 210 grain bullets from a major that worked pretty well, but they are still evaluating.
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Old October 21, 2015, 09:00 AM   #31
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If those of you who like the 300BO have not done so, it might be a good idea to let the manufacturers know you want a good reliable subsonic bullet in the 200-240 grain range.

Nosler Contact: http://www.nosler.com/contact-us/

Hornady Contact: http://www.hornady.com/contact_us

Barnes Contact: http://www.barnesbullets.com/contact/
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Old October 21, 2015, 01:26 PM   #32
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I actually used to mock this as a fan-boy boutique round. And 300 blackout does have some appeal being a tacticool name. For some that's the only appeal.

As time has gone on, I do no see it as a pretty good option for having a secondary caliber for your AR without much fuss.

It's not a magic do-all cartridge but it does have some merit, especially as a secondary option.
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Old October 22, 2015, 08:32 AM   #33
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I can't agree with this at all from a hunting perspective. Most conventional hunting bullets need a minimum of about 1800 fps in order to expand. At slower speeds they act just like FMJ. The lighter 110-125 gr bullets are fast enough, but are designed as varmint bullets, not big game bullets. The 180-200 gr bullets can't reach 1800 fps at the muzzle. At inside 100 yards the 150-165 grain loads will work, but there are 308 loads still above 1800 fps out well past 500-600 yards.
While I agree the BO is nowhere near the performance of the 308 win the rest of your post is full of bovine excrement. There are many long range bullets that expand excellent at lower velocities also yes many of the lighter bullets are designed for varmints but at 308/30-06 velocities slow these bullets down to blackout velocities and they become very adequate for deer/hogs.
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Old October 22, 2015, 03:05 PM   #34
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Really interesting, informative and well-reasoned posts - and I have nothing to add to the ballistics discussions, which have been pretty thorough. However, I'm not sure I agree with those that insist that ammo is crazy expensive. I have recently been buying ammo for .60 a round shipped. That's twice what I pay for the cheap plinking ammo I buy in 5.56, but not what I'd call crazy expensive. Plus, I've started saving the brass, for when I start reloading, so hopefully that will help bring the cost down.

Of course the ammo I'm talking about is supersonic and not match grade - but is still capable of 1.5 inch 10 shot groups at 50 yards. And that's using a Aimpoint red dot, I suspect these groups would shrink a little with a decent magnified optic and a better shooter.
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Old October 22, 2015, 05:10 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyrick
As time has gone on, I do [sic] see it as a pretty good option for having a secondary caliber for your AR without much fuss.
This. You take a given platform and extend to it extra capabilities without any hassle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tirod
And saying the M16 is only good to 300m - well, no, because the service uses them with the Squad Designated Marksman beyond 500m. For all that, the Mk18 with 10.5" barrel in 5.56 can kill out to 400m.
The M16/AR15 is good to 500m, and with 77gr mk262 rounds is lethal to that distance. Skilled shooters can reliably hit targets past 500m. I would prefer to engage targets past 300m with an AR-15 that was set up as a DMR / mk12 type rifle. Either case, if your engagement envelope is 0-300m, the .300 BO performs well. If you want to shoot out to 500m, the 5.56x45mm does the job, and the 7.62x51 does it, too.

What the .300 BO does bring to the table is the ability to run very short carbines with high reliability, regardless of which type of ammunition is being run through them--super sonic or sub sonic--and regardless of suppression. This is a pretty handy dandy feature for folks who desire that capability.

Is .300 BO a replacement for 5.56x45mm? No. Would a person be wise to purchase an AR-15 in .300 BO ahead of 5.56x45mm? No, I wouldn't say so. But if you have an AR-15, especially one with an SBR tax stamp lower, a short barreled .300 BO upper offers a lot of advantages for what amounts to plug-and-play effort.

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Old October 22, 2015, 08:55 PM   #36
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Is .300 BO a replacement for 5.56x45mm? No.
To me this is the biggest misconception about the round, it isn't supposed to replace the M4 in a arsenal, it replaces the MP5.

It's the ultimate PCC. I've heard quite a few people say wouldn't a 357 mag in a semi auto carbine be a useful tool well the 300 BO delivers that in spades. it's more versatile has as much power and better downrange trajectory.
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Old October 22, 2015, 10:46 PM   #37
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The M16/AR15 is good to 500m, and with 77gr mk262 rounds is lethal to that distance. Skilled shooters can reliably hit targets past 500m. I would prefer to engage targets past 300m with an AR-15 that was set up as a DMR / mk12 type rifle. Either case, if your engagement envelope is 0-300m, the .300 BO performs well. If you want to shoot out to 500m, the 5.56x45mm does the job, and the 7.62x51 does it, too.
I agree and disagree with this comment. I do agree the 5.56 can be very accurate at these distances. Even with open sights I remember in the military being able to hit 300 meters plus with out a miss. Again and again and again. If you do your part the weapon will hit what your aiming at.
I am not as sold on the performance of the 5.56 at extended ranges.
Mostly just poking 22 cal size holes once the velocity drops.
There maybe some specific bullets that offer better performance. None that really perform great out of a carbine.

The 300 black out may actually be a better performer out at ranges past 300 meters. Although surely not as easy to make a hit.
For me though it would be 7.62x51 if I had a choice for longer range shots.
There is more than just a few instances of solders hitting at 500 meters with a 5.56 and the bad guy gets up and runs away.( ok run maybe giving them too much. maybe limp or drag. I would not want to get hit with one at any distance.)
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Old October 23, 2015, 06:38 AM   #38
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"The lighter 110-125 gr bullets are fast enough, but are designed as varmint bullets, not big game bullets."

Keep in mind that those thin jacketed "varmint" bullets may work quite well as "game" bullets at the reduced velocities of the 300AAC.
When my kids were starting to hunt, I used reduced loads in a 243 Win. After finding the "normal" hunting type bullets failed to expand properly, I experimented with some other bullets until I found one that worked. It turned out to be a medium weight varmint bullet. Bullet performance @ 100-150 yards with 2300-2500 muzzle velocity was very similar to heavier jacketed bullets at 2900 fps.
I found a supply of 110 grain "HotCore" Speer bullets to test for deer hunting but the 1-7 twist barrel isn't as accurate with them as I'd hoped. Currently working with 125 and 150 Nosler BT in that carbine.
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Old October 23, 2015, 06:40 AM   #39
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Some great posts and some really dumb posts in this topic. Seems a lot of people don't understand the role of this round. I think the appeal was summed up very nicely here:

Quote:
Think
MP5 size
AK power
AR ergos
Suppresses easily
Runs out of a standard AR platform with only a barrel/gas tube swap
Same mags, BCG, everything
Essentially it really shines as a suppressed sbr. If thats not your thing then you won't get it. Of course subsonics do not have great terminal performance, who cares? You can use supers when you need the performance.

Also don't bother with this caliber if you don't handload.

But for a guy who likes sbrs, suppressors, shooting both subsonic and supersonic in a semi auto, and handloading it is great. There is nothing else like it.
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Old October 23, 2015, 09:48 AM   #40
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Quote:
Essentially it really shines as a suppressed sbr. If thats not your thing then you won't get it. Of course subsonics do not have great terminal performance, who cares? You can use supers when you need the performance.

Also don't bother with this caliber if you don't handload.

But for a guy who likes sbrs, suppressors, shooting both subsonic and supersonic in a semi auto, and handloading it is great. There is nothing else like it.
Ding...ding...ding

Close the thread
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Old October 23, 2015, 09:57 AM   #41
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I do not know if my post falls into the "great" or "really dumb" category but i do know contrary to being tested on jugs of water etc. my 300 BO has stopped some nasty smelling hogs dead in their tracks. Also I know it is a lot of fun to shoot and also load so no matter the opinions of others I shall continue to enjoy shooting my 300 BO pistol and rifles until such a time as I no longer find a need, or croak which ever comes first.
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Old October 24, 2015, 01:43 PM   #42
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"The .300 blackout performs very well in a specific set of mission profiles."

I don't have any of these. Can I jus' go hunting with it?
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Old October 25, 2015, 06:58 AM   #43
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Rightside, My point exactly, just let me hunt and plink with a fun cartridge and I will leave "world salvation" to others.
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Old October 25, 2015, 09:33 AM   #44
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* * * Seems a lot of people don't understand the role of this round. * * * Essentially it really shines as a suppressed sbr. If thats not your thing then you won't get it. Of course subsonics do not have great terminal performance, who cares? You can use supers when you need the performance.
I have precision and hunting rifles in .308 & 30.06; so being able to run a suppressed "30-cal" SBR is exactly why I dropped the cash to get into the .300BLK round. And, truthfully, getting it set-up wasn't that pricey.

I already run a 5.56 SBR off LMT's MRP platform, so moving to a .300BLK SBR was just a 2-minute barrel-swap anyway. I bought two .300BLK MRP barrels - one 10.5" & one 16" - the latter mainly for shooting supers, and for if I travel to hunt in a state where SBRs and/or cans are prohibited "no-nos."

The can was the spendier investment, but this summer I found a good deal on a 762-SDN-6. So having fired about 400-rds fired now, I can tell you the suppressed 10.5" set-up has run great with both factory subs and supers. Very accurate, and the 220gn subs out of the SDN-6 are scary quiet.

Quote:
Also don't bother with this caliber if you don't handload.
But for a guy who likes sbrs, suppressors, shooting both subsonic and supersonic in a semi auto, and handloading it is great. There is nothing else like it.
Maybe ... Reloading for the .300BLK is the next step in my relationship with this cartridge. But in the time I've run factory ammo thru it, I'm impressed with it.

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Old October 25, 2015, 03:02 PM   #45
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Quote:
It's the ultimate PCC
How is .300 BLK a pistol caliber carbine?
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Old October 26, 2015, 08:37 AM   #46
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How is .300 BLK a pistol caliber carbine?
In the spirit of the game really, It wasn't meant to replace the 5.56 M4's role so much as replacing the suppressed sub machine gun IE MP5 and as such is really at home in a pistol length barrel.
But also in reality that JD Jones developed the 300 Whisper in a Tompson Contender.
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Old October 27, 2015, 07:49 AM   #47
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My biggest issue with it in the sub-sonic is what Mobuck said...penetration and lack of expansion. We have all these folks running around with 300BO pistols/SBRs/Carbines with ammo that will not perform well on living targets. The ammo/bullet makers have been slow to develop 200 grain plus slugs that are appropriate for 900 to 1100 fps expansion. So, for most people, they are left with the Barnes 110 grain bullet and load for that application, which takes away the subsonic benefit of the caliber.
In addition to the other sub-sonic expanding bullets mentioned above, you have dozens of others. You won't find them on the shelf at Walmart or Academy but they are out there.

As I look over in my corner, I can see my Noveske N4 loaded with a 30 round mag of Lehigh Defense 194 Max Expansion bullets. Can on the end of the barrel. These are too expensive for most of us to shoot and plink with so after initial testing and sight in, I just keep them handy if needed.

For plinking, practice, and just fun suppressed shooting, I load up 220 SMK's or 208 Amax. I love my 300 BLK. Absolutely everyone who has shot my 300 suppressed has gotten giddy, "How do I get one!!??". Has it made me sell off my 5.56 AR's? No, not yet.

Rumor has it that the 300 BLK was jointly developed (re-introduced) by AAC, Remington, and the DOD as a replacement for SPEC-OPS MP-5 and other carbines currently being used. Subsonic suppressed and full power supersonic in one platform that only requires a barrel change from current AR's in use. From that standpoint, I think it is brilliant.

Considering the military has been in severe decline over the last 8 years, has there been much of anything new deployed? I have read more than one source that says our military is now the smallest that it has been since 1940.
Scary.

There are tons of test out there on the web. Watch the gel test, do your own testing, run the ballistics on your favorite program against a 45 ACP, etc. Then make an informed decision.


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Old October 27, 2015, 08:45 AM   #48
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Its a good choice.

I have to say that I was a bit turned off as the creator of the 300 used to argue on seemingly EVERY gun, hunting, and even a survivalist board.

He contributed to making an additional and good choice to the market.

That should be applauded.

But.... to seek out arguements?

Uneccessary


There were unneccessary arguements (and.... yes.... I contributed )
on the 300blk vs XXXXX

I chose a 6.8...... I am STILL happy with my choice.

I wanted the extra range

The bullet I hunt with (my biggest requirement), is the 120g SST from Hornady. It stays at 1000ft lbs all the way to 275 yards.

The best bullet I could find from 300blk went below 1kft lbs at 130 ish yards

But, realistically, and truthfully, the majority of my shots on Mr Pig have been closer than 125 yards.

The 300blk would have killed Mr Pig, there as well.



Slamming someone else's rifle choice is a hot topic on the boards.....
for some people.... their very identity is tied to if YOU choose their caliber or not..... a bit crazy

( I will add that I am in a recovery group of "best" rifle caliber thereapy sessions..... we meet every Tuesday at 7Pm )

"My name is Dean, and I havent argued best caliber in 35 days"



Either way...... do the research...... dont go with hype or marketing

Realize that there are no perfect rifle choices..... Repeat that.....

Think about what YOU will realistically do with the rifle........

If the 300BLK fits what you want to do with it..... jump in with both feet there seem to be many happy people
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Old October 27, 2015, 09:25 AM   #49
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I don't think anybody questions what the round can do in realistic terms. Especially suppressed.

But what is being touted as an advantage isn't something the average shooter can take advantage. A suppressor is going to cost you at least $1000 more. That instantly rules out a lot of shooters. More join the ranks every day but the ATF and the current administration are attempting to make it more difficult.

If you reload then you can save costs, but again, the average gun owner does not. He buys his ammo off the shelf - and they don't load every possible .30 bullet in this cartridge. Just the ones that seem to sell the most - and that means a lot of the whacky combinations are off the table.

Boils down to most .300BO shooters using the cartridge in a few loads - just like any other - and for those hunting deer, keeping their targeting ranges inside the envelope to keep from dealing with bullet drop being an issue.

This is exactly what the users of .30-30 accepted in the day - they knew it wasn't .30-06 and saw it fit what they needed deer hunting in a day when they were taking them faster than they could reproduce.

By no means is the cartridge pricey - it's just another commercial round same prices as most of the rest, including 5.56 hunting loads. What it offers to the average shooter is a bit more power inside it's range compared to issue ammo.

It still takes shot placement to make it work, the relatively higher power just ensures a poor hit (not necessarily poor aim) keeps the animal down or slows it enough for another shot. It's not the only cartridge than can do that, just the currently popular one, and mostly because of the popularity of the AR15. Manual action guns in .300BO are mostly a rarity.

Other alternative AR15 cartridges have their advantages and disadvantages, too. Weigh the ballistic application to what you need and pick the one that fits. If that means recognizing what the cartridge can't do - like, compete successfully in 1000m long range precision shooting, then it's a fully informed decision.

Nobody shoots .300BO in long range sniper matches, and it's really lame compared to .308 doing that. That's simple reality and not admitting it is something other than truthful. It doesn't add credibility to the discussion, it just looks like shilling for pay. But that's what the internet does - sell stuff. It pays the electric bills.

.300BO sells right now. So did the cartridge before that, and, the cartridge before that. There's a lot of money in the AR15 market, so we get a lot of support for guns that shoot it, and getting a balanced picture of what it does isn't something that people making money on it like. It would make things look less that what is needed to prop up an impulse sale.

So fanboys push it as the Cartridge That Rules Them All, and the money gets plunked down to be part of the crowd. The forums fill up with chat, and then in a few years the for sale ads pop up with guns purchased to fill a need that still was unsatisfied.

I've seen if for over 40 years, guys, and when I'm gone some of you will be viewing things with experience and clear vision. The latest Bullet of the Month won't be so much. It either fits what you need or it doesn't. Plenty of them out there. I bought into one, I'm passing on this one. You will pass on others after the years count up. The old standards become that because they do the job.
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Old October 27, 2015, 01:36 PM   #50
A pause for the COZ
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Just ran into WalMart today. Zipped through the Ammo isle as I am want to do.

Two interesting things of note:

1st and it almost had me reaching for my wallet.
They have a Marlin Lever action in 45-70 for $569.00
ALMOST.....

Also noticed they had a good supply of Remington 300 Black out
Loaded with the 120gr Barnes OTFB bullets.
Had to buy a box. 1st retail 300 black out I have paid money for.
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