Turk Mauser - Bad bore/rifling - What to do?

SouthSeaPirate · November 9, 2014, 09:15 PM

Well today I discovered the bore is pretty pitted and the rifling is worn. I can see from chamber end the barrel is shiny; from the muzzle end, well you get the idea. So basically some of the barrel looks good and the rest is crap.

So now Id like to know my options. If enough of the barrel is intact I can counter bore, but that's a shot in the dark. If enough of the barrel is good then I could cut it down and sporterize it. Then there's getting another barrel, but that's too much to keep a not so common caliber. Another is to re-barrel to .308, which is something Id love to do.

Now Im nothing more than a mechanically inclined individual; far from being a smith. That said, as far as I know, all that needs be done to convert to .308 is change the barrel. From what reading Ive done, some Turk receivers are large ring type with small ring threads. This in turn makes the barrel harder to find?

Opinions? Input? What would you do?

James K · November 9, 2014, 09:34 PM

The general term "Turk Mauser" covers a number of models, some of them pre-1898 Mausers, which I would not recommend for use with .308.

Unless you are willing to invest in some fairly expensive equipment that you might never use again, I think you might be better off talking to a gunsmith. He can make sure what you need, advise you on what you have, discuss the make and cost of a barrel, and do the work.

Jim

SouthSeaPirate · November 9, 2014, 09:54 PM

Oh sorry, don't know how I missed that. Here's a couple pics;

What equipment? Like a receiver wrench and head space gauges, right? Cant be that expensive.

tahunua001 · November 9, 2014, 10:56 PM

that's a pretty sewerpipe you have there. it may not be terribly beyond repair. perhaps using some KG 12 to scrub the bore? it may not be as terribly bad once you get it polished up a bit. once you get it polished and depending on the damage you may slug the bore to see if some of these may be a good idea.

James K · November 9, 2014, 10:58 PM

"What equipment? Like a receiver wrench and head space gauges, right? Cant be that expensive."

OK.

Jim

tobnpr · November 10, 2014, 04:39 PM

If you machine (or file) the front receiver ring off the Turk mauser, it will take the small ring mauser barrel.

Get yourself a 6.5 x 55 short-chambered barrel from Brownells, they can be finish reamed by hand if you're inclined for a DIY project. 7 & 8 mm. Mausers, and the 6.5 Swede all take the same boltface- .470, so no mod required there.

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...prod12528.aspx

Otherwise, a smith can thread and chamber a barrel for you. The 6.5 x 55 is one of the "classic" chamberings that is on par with a .260 Remington and is still very popular.

mapsjanhere · November 10, 2014, 05:18 PM

Quote:

What equipment? Like a receiver wrench and head space gauges, right? Cant be that expensive

Watch this video, and check your garage. If you got all the stuff he has, you're golden.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ufes_zrZmg

SouthSeaPirate · November 10, 2014, 06:15 PM

http://www.troupsystems.com/mauser%20308%20barrels.htm
I was checking out this.
If I need a smith I'd rather sell it for parts really. I was hoping I could do it myself. I honestly cannot remember the last time I paid for service for anything other than food...

mapsjanhere · November 10, 2014, 07:18 PM

The problem with the locking ring system is - you lose at least half your torquing surface. Instead of working against both the inside of the receiver and the front ring you're only torquing against the front ring, without squaring it you might only contact half of that again.
Normally that might not be much of an issue, but a Mauser with the strong extractor holding the cartridge against the bolt face will fire even if the barrel has come lose and you're having excessive headspace. And when that leads to a blown case head you'll find out whether all those gas channels really protect the shooter in case of a blowout.
As most turk mausers still go for $200 or less I don't think a new barrel is worth the effort and money. Yours looks unmessed with, sell it at the next gunshow and get a sporterized shooter.

SouthSeaPirate · November 10, 2014, 09:25 PM

Didnt even think about the ring issue. Really needs to match.

Unfortunately I dont think anyone is going to want it. Ive put it up on FB for 100. No bites.

robmkivseries70 · November 10, 2014, 10:03 PM

Clean it thoroughly, shoot it and see how it does, it may be fine. If you use corrosive ammo, use soap and hot water on the bore and then clean as normal. Rinse your cleaning rod and brush to get rid of any salt deposits after the soap and water stage.

James K · November 10, 2014, 11:09 PM

"If you machine (or file) the front receiver ring off the Turk mauser, it will take the small ring mauser barrel."

Huh?

Jim

RJay · November 10, 2014, 11:20 PM

How does it shoot?? I had an 03-A3 that the bore looked like 20 miles of bad road, but to my surprise it shot MOA, I did change it for a 25-06 but only to be doing so, not because it wasn't accurate.

Pineknot · November 10, 2014, 11:48 PM

Wideners has new M48 barrels for 39. bucks.

MJN77 · November 11, 2014, 07:00 AM

I have an old 1894 Winchester 30-30 that was made in 1896. The bore looks worse than yours, but you can still see the rifling. After scrubbing and cleaning I can make 5 shot off hand groups you can cover with your hand at 50 yards. As others have said, see how it shoots.

madmo44mag · November 11, 2014, 08:02 AM

Clean it up and see what you have.
I have a couple sewer pipe Mauser that shoot pretty well after having them, counter bored.

tobnpr · November 11, 2014, 08:18 AM

Quote:

"If you machine (or file) the front receiver ring off the Turk mauser, it will take the small ring mauser barrel."

Huh?

Jim

A couple of years ago I became interested in doing a Mauser conversion and did some research, but quickly realized that, for precision rifle without a smith (or a 12" x 36" lathe) I'd be much better off with a Savage action. Anyway, this shows the difference between the Turk and K98 actions/barrels:

Receiver/barrel threads are identical on the Turk and the Swede small ring Mausers, save for the front ring on the Turk:

http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/turk/turkmain.html

Steve Wagner did a lot of write ups on the Turk, and I would PM Clark here on the board, as I know he's done a bunch of them.

http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/turk/turkbbls.html

chiefr · November 11, 2014, 10:01 AM

If you really want to use the gun "As IS" cast bullets may be your only option.
Turk Mausers are not high demand rifles. Even those with good bores and in good condition sell for $200 or less.

I agree with JamesK and would not convert it to 308.

MHO, hang it on the wall.

**44 AMP** · November 11, 2014, 12:10 PM

Assuming the headspace is correct (and you did or are getting that checked, right?), You should consider shooting it, at least a bit, before you do anything else.

Some barrels that look like crap still shoot acceptably well. Most don't but some do, and you can't tell that just by looking.

Also, barrels that are too damaged/worn to give good accuracy with jacketed ammo, can sometimes give good accuracy with tailored cast bullet ammo.

AND, don't judge the potential of the barrel only on its performance with surplus ammo, either.

I've got a Kar98k with a bore that looks like a plowed field. Surplus 8mm ammo can be counted on to hit the target...somewhere. With Remington Core-locks, its still far from a tack driver, but does manage 3 shots good enough for "minute of deer" accuracy. Now, that is that particular gun, and every gun is different, so no promises. All I'm saying is that before you spend any money on a barrel spend a little bit on ammo, so you know for sure what your rifle will do, or not do.

Good Luck!

(and where is the guy ranting "no no no NO! Don't do ANYTHING! You are destroying a precious part of history!" Strange not to see one of them pop up, but the thread is still young....

)

James K · November 11, 2014, 09:49 PM

Hi, tobnpr,

Some "Turk Mausers" have large barrel tenons. How would you get those to take a small tenon barrel by "machining the front receiver ring off"?

Jim

**Mike Irwin** · November 12, 2014, 11:56 AM

Have you shot it yet?

If not, do so before you make any decisions.

You might be surprised at how well it shoots, even with a nasty bore.

tobnpr · November 12, 2014, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Hi, tobnpr,

Some "Turk Mausers" have large barrel tenons. How would you get those to take a small tenon barrel by "machining the front receiver ring off"?

Jim

I'm about as far from an "expert" on Mausers as one can get, only passing along what I'd learned when I was considering a project. Might not be the case with all of them, don't know. Does work with the examples Wagner has shown. To agree with the obvious, small ring barrel threads certainly wouldn't work with a large ring threaded receiver.

James K · November 13, 2014, 10:43 PM

I finally realized that by "the front receiver ring" was meant the flange that some of those receivers have at the front of the receiver ring to retain the handguard. I am not sure, but I think it would have to be removed to install a barrel with a shoulder if the shoulder were too large. Just another contribution to the "Turk Mauser" confusion.

Jim

November 9, 2014, 09:15 PM	#1
SouthSeaPirate Junior Member Join Date: March 31, 2013 Posts: 13	Turk Mauser - Bad bore/rifling - What to do? Well today I discovered the bore is pretty pitted and the rifling is worn. I can see from chamber end the barrel is shiny; from the muzzle end, well you get the idea. So basically some of the barrel looks good and the rest is crap. So now Id like to know my options. If enough of the barrel is intact I can counter bore, but that's a shot in the dark. If enough of the barrel is good then I could cut it down and sporterize it. Then there's getting another barrel, but that's too much to keep a not so common caliber. Another is to re-barrel to .308, which is something Id love to do. Now Im nothing more than a mechanically inclined individual; far from being a smith. That said, as far as I know, all that needs be done to convert to .308 is change the barrel. From what reading Ive done, some Turk receivers are large ring type with small ring threads. This in turn makes the barrel harder to find? Opinions? Input? What would you do?

November 9, 2014, 10:56 PM	#4
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	that's a pretty sewerpipe you have there. it may not be terribly beyond repair. perhaps using some KG 12 to scrub the bore? it may not be as terribly bad once you get it polished up a bit. once you get it polished and depending on the damage you may slug the bore to see if some of these may be a good idea. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

November 10, 2014, 04:39 PM	#6
tobnpr Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 4,556	If you machine (or file) the front receiver ring off the Turk mauser, it will take the small ring mauser barrel. Get yourself a 6.5 x 55 short-chambered barrel from Brownells, they can be finish reamed by hand if you're inclined for a DIY project. 7 & 8 mm. Mausers, and the 6.5 Swede all take the same boltface- .470, so no mod required there. http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...prod12528.aspx Otherwise, a smith can thread and chamber a barrel for you. The 6.5 x 55 is one of the "classic" chamberings that is on par with a .260 Remington and is still very popular. __________________ Remington 700/Savage Rebarreling /Action Blueprinting 07 FFL /Mosin-Nagant Custom Shop/Bent Bolts Genuine Cerakote Applicator www.biggorillagunworks.com

November 10, 2014, 07:18 PM	#9
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	The problem with the locking ring system is - you lose at least half your torquing surface. Instead of working against both the inside of the receiver and the front ring you're only torquing against the front ring, without squaring it you might only contact half of that again. Normally that might not be much of an issue, but a Mauser with the strong extractor holding the cartridge against the bolt face will fire even if the barrel has come lose and you're having excessive headspace. And when that leads to a blown case head you'll find out whether all those gas channels really protect the shooter in case of a blowout. As most turk mausers still go for $200 or less I don't think a new barrel is worth the effort and money. Yours looks unmessed with, sell it at the next gunshow and get a sporterized shooter. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

November 10, 2014, 11:20 PM	#13
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	How does it shoot?? I had an 03-A3 that the bore looked like 20 miles of bad road, but to my surprise it shot MOA, I did change it for a 25-06 but only to be doing so, not because it wasn't accurate. __________________ Ron James

November 9, 2014, 09:34 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The general term "Turk Mauser" covers a number of models, some of them pre-1898 Mausers, which I would not recommend for use with .308. Unless you are willing to invest in some fairly expensive equipment that you might never use again, I think you might be better off talking to a gunsmith. He can make sure what you need, advise you on what you have, discuss the make and cost of a barrel, and do the work. Jim

November 9, 2014, 09:54 PM	#3
SouthSeaPirate Junior Member Join Date: March 31, 2013 Posts: 13	Oh sorry, don't know how I missed that. Here's a couple pics; What equipment? Like a receiver wrench and head space gauges, right? Cant be that expensive.

November 9, 2014, 10:58 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	"What equipment? Like a receiver wrench and head space gauges, right? Cant be that expensive." OK. Jim

November 10, 2014, 06:15 PM	#8
SouthSeaPirate Junior Member Join Date: March 31, 2013 Posts: 13	http://www.troupsystems.com/mauser%20308%20barrels.htm I was checking out this. If I need a smith I'd rather sell it for parts really. I was hoping I could do it myself. I honestly cannot remember the last time I paid for service for anything other than food...

November 10, 2014, 09:25 PM	#10
SouthSeaPirate Junior Member Join Date: March 31, 2013 Posts: 13	Didnt even think about the ring issue. Really needs to match. Unfortunately I dont think anyone is going to want it. Ive put it up on FB for 100. No bites.

November 10, 2014, 10:03 PM	#11
robmkivseries70 Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2005 Location: free territory Posts: 203	Clean it thoroughly, shoot it and see how it does, it may be fine. If you use corrosive ammo, use soap and hot water on the bore and then clean as normal. Rinse your cleaning rod and brush to get rid of any salt deposits after the soap and water stage.

November 10, 2014, 11:09 PM	#12
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	"If you machine (or file) the front receiver ring off the Turk mauser, it will take the small ring mauser barrel." Huh? Jim

November 10, 2014, 11:48 PM	#14
Pineknot Junior Member Join Date: March 27, 2012 Location: Arkansas Posts: 6	Wideners has new M48 barrels for 39. bucks.

November 11, 2014, 07:00 AM	#15
MJN77 Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2009 Location: on a hill in West Virginia Posts: 789	I have an old 1894 Winchester 30-30 that was made in 1896. The bore looks worse than yours, but you can still see the rifling. After scrubbing and cleaning I can make 5 shot off hand groups you can cover with your hand at 50 yards. As others have said, see how it shoots.

November 11, 2014, 08:02 AM	#16
madmo44mag Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2008 Location: Ft.Worth, Texas Posts: 1,522	Clean it up and see what you have. I have a couple sewer pipe Mauser that shoot pretty well after having them, counter bored. __________________ Texas - Not just a state but an attitude! For monthly shooting events in DFW visit http://www.meetup.com/TexasGunOwner-DFW

November 11, 2014, 10:01 AM	#18
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	If you really want to use the gun "As IS" cast bullets may be your only option. Turk Mausers are not high demand rifles. Even those with good bores and in good condition sell for $200 or less. I agree with JamesK and would not convert it to 308. MHO, hang it on the wall.

November 11, 2014, 12:10 PM	#19
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	Assuming the headspace is correct (and you did or are getting that checked, right?), You should consider shooting it, at least a bit, before you do anything else. Some barrels that look like crap still shoot acceptably well. Most don't but some do, and you can't tell that just by looking. Also, barrels that are too damaged/worn to give good accuracy with jacketed ammo, can sometimes give good accuracy with tailored cast bullet ammo. AND, don't judge the potential of the barrel only on its performance with surplus ammo, either. I've got a Kar98k with a bore that looks like a plowed field. Surplus 8mm ammo can be counted on to hit the target...somewhere. With Remington Core-locks, its still far from a tack driver, but does manage 3 shots good enough for "minute of deer" accuracy. Now, that is that particular gun, and every gun is different, so no promises. All I'm saying is that before you spend any money on a barrel spend a little bit on ammo, so you know for sure what your rifle will do, or not do. Good Luck! (and where is the guy ranting "no no no NO! Don't do ANYTHING! You are destroying a precious part of history!" Strange not to see one of them pop up, but the thread is still young....) __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 11, 2014, 09:49 PM	#20
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, tobnpr, Some "Turk Mausers" have large barrel tenons. How would you get those to take a small tenon barrel by "machining the front receiver ring off"? Jim

November 12, 2014, 11:56 AM	#21
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,388	Have you shot it yet? If not, do so before you make any decisions. You might be surprised at how well it shoots, even with a nasty bore. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

November 13, 2014, 10:43 PM	#23
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I finally realized that by "the front receiver ring" was meant the flange that some of those receivers have at the front of the receiver ring to retain the handguard. I am not sure, but I think it would have to be removed to install a barrel with a shoulder if the shoulder were too large. Just another contribution to the "Turk Mauser" confusion. Jim