Modifying an Ak in NY?

[Ruthless4christ]

I have been pondering getting an ak-47 for some time now, however my location (New York- NOT NYC) makes it very difficult to make a choice on which one to purchase as they are few and far between, (also very expensive). Today while at a local gun store I was told something that sounded weird, and I would like to know what ya’lls opinion on it is.
Basically the Gun counter clerk told me that I could buy a Saiga Ak and bevel down the Mag Well so that it would accept 30 round pre ban Magazines. My understanding of New York law is that a rifle that receives magazines over 30 rounds can only be legal if it was in that state before the Assault rifle ban. However this fella told me that that law only applies to the magazines and not the rifle. Any New Yorkers out there that would like to give their opinion? The question is not whether a saiga is a good AK or not. I am well aware there are plenty of folks out there that hate them, but I am limited to what the local market has to offer me. Leave it up to me to find out if it is a piece of junk or not, I just don’t want to spend 10 years in the can for getting one.

Thanks so much

[Mosinnagant]

As long as the mag was made before 1994 it is legall for it to hold more then 10 rounds.

[Aguila Blanca]

There's nothing like reading the actual law: http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article265.htm

First, the weapon: It's an "assault weapon" if it falls within this description (from the law)

22. "Assault weapon" means (a) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following characteristics:
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor;
(v) a grenade launcher;

The next section addresses the magazines:

23. "Large capacity ammunition feeding device" means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device, manufactured after September thirteenth, nineteen hundred ninety-four, that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition; provided, however, that such term does not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.

There is nothing in the law that says the firearm must recognize one capacity of magazine but not another. If it accepts detachable magazines and has certain other features, it's an "assault" weapon. Period.

The magazine capacity is addressed independently of the firearm requirements. As noted above, it applies strictly to magazines manufactured after 1994. Your problem, of course, will be how to prove that your "large capacity" magazines were manufactured BEFORE September 13, 1994.

[Ruthless4christ]

I'm really not worried about proving the MAg is PRE ban or not. i guess after doing alittle reading it seems the only reason they tac welded the mag wells to prevent larger mags, was because these are imports? if so, grinding it downs does not seem so bad.

Thank you for the replays folks

[chasep255]

All that would change in the gun would be to allow for double instead of single stack mags. This does not make the gun an assault weapon. You can get 10 round double stack mags. Also I think in NY you can have 30 round mags made before the date of the ban.

[frick74]

Never having been familiar with a case involving pre ban mags, and not being from NY, wouldn't it be on the part of the Prosecutor to prove that your mags are post ban?

In legal terms, there must be evidence to be used against you in court, to show you are guilty of crime, not for you to present evidence you are legal, the assumption is you ARE innocent until PROVEN guilty, even though very few people understand or believe that anymore.

If its for a firearm that didn't exist in 1994, then its probably an easy case, however, millions of magazines were made or imported for lots of common platforms, like the AR and AK, any non marked AK mag, and most are, looks like it did in 94, just how does a prosecutor prove that it isn't current manufacture, metal analysis? Expert testimony?

Its sounds scary, and its definitely harassment called a law, but, has anyone ever been convicted of the crime?

[EricReynolds]

Post ban mags manufactured for NY are blue at the top. Pre ban are black or gray. If it's blue and has a capacity over 10, it's illegal. You can find a pre ban mag at a gun show for around $20-$30. You can find a wide variety of AKs as well, ranging from $275-$600.

[frick74]

Whoa, you're saying that there is a standardized painting system for pre and post ban mags in NY?

Really, what governmental body approved this? And, could you please list the manufacturers of magazines that are participating?

[EricReynolds]

Yes. I don't know the details of it, I just know it's like that. I've seen it.

[frick74]

Sounds a bit shaky to me, like any guy with a can of spray paint can cheaply apply a coat of legal invulnerability.

Not something I would trust, if I had to worry about it.

[chasep255]

In legal terms, there must be evidence to be used against you in court, to show you are guilty of crime, not for you to present evidence you are legal, the assumption is you ARE innocent until PROVEN guilty

Well you essentially are guilty until proven innocent in my state. Since all guns are technically illegal you must prove that you have them under an exemption such as having a FPID card.