Good Shoot or Bad Shoot?

[Wildalaska]

regardless of how we on this site feel about the case the simple fact is the jury, based on the information they had, judged the guy guilty.

And Alaska juries are not considered to be pro prosecution in cases such as these

WildwaitingforsentencingAlaska ™

[Colt Delta Elite]

This was a posting contained in the link to the news article. It sheds a little more light concerning some of the details and may change your viewpoint:


defense lacking

First, let me begin by saying that I, like most of you, wish Mr. Saafi had gotten a lighter charge yesterday.

However, unbeknownst to most that have posted comments here, the defense did not sufficiently support their claim to self-defense, which would have allowed any jury to legally let him off with lighter, if any, charges. The defense did not explore with witnesses the many facets of the situation that supported Mr. Saafi's actions.

Here are a few facts from the courtroom that did not help Mr. Saafi:

The victim had no weapon on him at the time of the crime. In fact, he was only seen by witnesses ONCE with a weapon, ever. A common, knife-on-the-belt weapon. Shame.

The victim was in a loud argument with his wife when Mr. Saafi left his residence at a full run. The victim was not standing within arms reach of his wife when Mr. Saafi ran off of his property and pulled the loaded gun on the victim and his friend. By doing so, he unfortunately became the aggressor, and not even on his own property.

Mr. Saafi did not mention self-defense to any of the APD staff at the time of the incident. He said that he was protecting his family. Absolutely a good cause, but the defense did not prove that his family was under any immediate threat at the time of the shooting. The defense could not prove that even the wife was under any threat at the time, as she was also under the influence of meth and had just come from spending a night with the victim, who had not abused her during that time.

The defense failed to provide witnesses that did a good job demonstrating that the family had lived in fear. Again, the fear was probably there, but why didn't the defense ask the right questions so that it was clear in the trial?

The defense often played the emotional and cultural cards, rather than refuting and explaining the incriminating evidence. Again, such a shame.

A cell phone was found lying immediately next to where the hollow point clip had been taken when Mr. Saafi had loaded the gun. If only he had called 911 before running out of the house pointing a loaded weapon at weaponless meth addicts, the law could have looked at it differently.

The Alaskan/Outside split of the jury was about half and half, as was the male/female, gun-owners/non gun-owners, and younger/older splits.

The defense did not provide anyone in that courtroom with enough evidence to let him off this time, but hopefully this will be the wake-up call that they need so that they will do better should they appeal. The same judge will be sentencing Mr. Saafi, and one can only hope that he will be able to apply all of the facts that he knows but that were not presented in trial. With everything taken into account, hopefully Mr. Saafi can get out of prison soon; he doesn't belong there.

[Wildalaska]

Mr. Saafi got 10 years today after the decedants father emotionally told the judge that he forgave him. I'll post the story as soon as it's posted.

He could have gotten 99 years.

Interesting

WildwhatdayisitAlaska TM

[Wildalaska]

Here is the story:

At murderer's sentencing, grieving fathers find unlikely bond
A story of addiction, death and forgiveness

By JULIA O'MALLEY
[email protected]

(07/12/08 02:06:03)

In a downtown courtroom Friday, Rob Kagel didn't know what to feel as he looked for the first time on Osaiasi Saafi, the man who'd shot and killed his son.

What is the father of a murder victim supposed to feel?

Saafi, 30, hung his head in his chair at the defense table, a lawyer at his side, his own father and a minister behind him. He looked like a warrior, stoic and sad.

A jury had convicted him of murder. He faced the prospect of spending most of his life in prison.

Kagel knew prosecutor John Skidmore was asking for 25 years. That sounded right to him. Saafi needed to take responsibility for his son's death, Kagel explained. He needed to feel bad for what he'd done.

Still, as Kagel looked at the young man in the orange prison clothes, he felt something inside him shift.

A special education teacher from Arizona, Kagel thought of his dead son, Josh -- a smart, compassionate boy who kept losing his fight with addiction after his mother's suicide, he said.

What would Josh have wanted, Kagel asked himself.

Josh came to Alaska in his late teens, looking for a new life after a string of drug-related run-ins with the law in Arizona. For a half-dozen years, Kagel and his other children rode the bipolar cycles of Josh's drug addiction, tracking his recovery or relapse over long-distance calls from Alaska.

Sometimes Josh seemed well: He married. Held jobs. Had a son.

Sometimes he wasn't well: Minor brushes with Alaska law. Meth. The horrible brittle quality in his voice when he called high after months of being straight.

A month before he died, Josh hit bottom. He called Kagel and said his addiction was costing him his wife and son. He was determined to kick his habit. A turning point, father and son agreed.

But it wasn't.

On Aug. 28, 2005, high again, Josh fought with his wife on an Airport Heights Drive. Saafi was a cousin to Josh's wife; he felt responsible for protecting her. He intervened. Josh jumped Saafi, threatened to kill him.

Saafi went in the house and got a gun. He unloaded seven bullets into Josh, pumping shots long after Josh's body hit the ground.

Josh died in his wife's arms. He was 25 years old.

Saafi had no history of violence, no criminal record. He'd never even gotten a speeding ticket. He called the police himself.

At his trial for first-degree, meaning intentional, murder, Saafi's lawyer argued it was really self defense. The jury found him guilty of second-degree murder.

Back in Arizona, Kagel only knew what he read about his son's death -- news stories online and anonymous reader comments on adn.com declaring the shooting of his son justified. Josh deserved to die, they said. He was an addict. A meth-head. Saafi "should have emptied the clip."

Such viciousness from strangers made Kagel think the world was a broken place.

Addiction was only part of Josh, he said. He was also tender-hearted, a goofball brother who called his sister at 3 a.m., a charmer who got smiles out of police officers.

The family wondered what Josh's killer felt. Was he sorry? Kagel's daughter, Shayna, visited Saafi in jail. He couldn't look at her. Couldn't speak.

In the courtroom Friday, it was time for Kagel to talk. Saafi should get a serious sentence, he told the judge, long enough to teach him the value of human life.

"My wish for you is that you not throw your life away out of a stubborn refusal to accept responsibility for your actions," he said to Saafi.

Then it was Saafi's turn. He accepted the decision of the jury, he said quietly. He prayed every day for the family to forgive him. He was sorry for the heartache his actions had caused.

From his seat in the gallery, Kagel believed Saafi was sincere, believed he would be burdened for life by what he'd done.

Suddenly, locking Saafi up for most of his life seemed a waste. Then two young men would be destroyed, Kagel explained later. He knew Josh wouldn't have wanted it.

Judge Michael Wolverton called a recess. When court reconvened, Kagel asked if he could make one last statement.

He'd changed his mind, he told the judge. Please give Saafi the minimum sentence, he said.

"We do forgive you," Kagel said to Saafi. "For reasons we don't understand, we love you; we do."

Saafi nodded. Behind him, his father Henry Saafi wept.

Wolverton listened. He wasn't used to hearing victims speak so eloquently on behalf of a defendant, he said. It rarely happens.

He would take Kagel's wishes to heart and adjust his sentence to the minimum -- 10 years in prison, Wolverton said.

Saafi clearly acted in a fever of adrenaline and fear, protecting his family, the judge said. It's unlikely he'd ever do something like it again. Just to be safe, he added 20 years of suspended time that can be imposed if Saafi strays.

Wolverton wished Saafi luck. Uniformed guards led him out of the courtroom through a metal door.

Kagel and Saafi's father stood and looked at each other. Strangers before that day, they embraced -- father of the murdered and father of the murderer, their faces wet with tears.

"It's the single greatest thing I've ever done in my entire life," Kagel said.

WildbadshootAlaska TM

[Frank Ettin]

There's no way we can second guess the jury based on a short newspaper article. It was a two week trial. The jury heard and saw a lot we will never know anything about. And of course, the jury could also be wrong. There's just know way to assess this with such limited information.

However, this sort of thing should remind us that whether or not it's a "good shot" might not always be so obvious.

[Playboypenguin]

I might sound insensitive, but my biggest problem with that article is the line...

Josh -- a smart, compassionate boy who kept losing his fight with addiction after his mother's suicide

I get so sick and tired of addicts and a-holes being portrayed as victims. Apparently they are all upstanding citizens and the most angelic of people when not under the influence too.

I do not drink or do drugs. I do not remember ever having to "battle" to not stick a needle in my arm or a crack pipe to my lips. I simply remember making the choice to not be a loser.

[bikerbill]

At the end of the day, it's just another tragedy ... one man dead, another's life ruined by, perhaps, a moment of flawed judgment ... We still don't have the crucial facts -- distance, was the knife drawn or not? -- but it sounds like justice was done, both in the conviction and the less-than-maximum sentence ... and it has to give you pause ... when you arm yourself, you assume a huge responsibility ... I believe I'm prepared to make the right decision under stress -- I've taken half a dozen classes, practice often, visualize situations where I might be forced to present my gun and use it -- but when the adrenaline is flowing and people are screaming, any of us might make a mistake ...

[David Armstrong]

I might sound insensitive, but my biggest problem with that article is the line...

Quote:
Josh -- a smart, compassionate boy who kept losing his fight with addiction after his mother's suicide

I get so sick and tired of addicts and a-holes being portrayed as victims. Apparently they are all upstanding citizens and the most angelic of people when not under the influence too.

I fail to see that is portraying the boy as a victim. It is more of a morality note about how easy it is to fall under the influence of drugs and the affect they can have on even the best of people.

I simply remember making the choice to not be a loser.

Many who drink or do drugs have not chosen to be a loser. In fact, many that drink or do drugs are considered very powerful and influential people in our society. I think you paint with way too broad a brush.

[Playboypenguin]

Many who drink or do drugs have not chosen to be a loser. In fact, many that drink or do drugs are considered very powerful and influential people in our society. I think you paint with way too broad a brush.

My remarks where about this specific individual and those like him. I stick by what I said. You can go ahead an defend the lowlifes if you choose to do s, but do not expect me to enable your actions.

[Sigma 40 Blaster]

I think the article does tend to further victimize the guy who was shot by talking about his mother, his battles with addiction and so forth. There's plenty of humanity in the story by talking about the guy's daughter visiting the shooter in jail and the guy's father forgiving him and helping him get leniency.

Not to mention the overall big picture of a seemingly good meaning citizen who seems to have either gotten really angry or really freaked out with a handgun and the impact it has had on his life.

God forbid I'm the victim of a crime I hope my personal struggles and things I've overcome in life are used to add years to the aggressor's sentence. But that's what newspapers are for, I don't think that stuff was taken into account for sentencing.

Thanks WildAlaska for following up on this story, I was wondering how this was going to turn out. I wonder if the defendant ever got any expert testimony or could appeal with help from some SD experts like Mas Ayoob or the Personal Defense Network?

[Wildalaska]

I spoke to somebody involved in the investigation who must be, anonymous. The bottom line so far

1. The decedant was not a pillar of the community
2. Many folks involved were sympathetic to the defendant...but

Guess the best way to put it was...he kept shooting when he should have stopped.

Tough line between defense and offense...thats why carrying a gun is such an awesome responsibilty

WildimstryingtogetmoreinfoAlaska TM

[David Armstrong]

My remarks where about this specific individual and those like him.

They are equally flawed in concept, whether they be the broad generalizatio you originally tossed out or the narrower parameter you are attempting to use now. As you have no knowledge of what this person's life was like anywhere outside of the little snippets offered by the media, such a judgement is questionable at best.

You can go ahead an defend the lowlifes if you choose to do s, but do not expect me to enable your actions.

As there is ample evidence that many who drink and use drugs are not lowlifes by any rational standard, I doubt there is any enabling for you to do at all.

[Playboypenguin]

Nice attempt to play games and incite reactions but I am afraid it is not going to work. This guy was a loser. If you want to defend him and other people like him that is your choice. Go ahead and defend all the drug addicts and alcoholics you like...maybe even let them move in with you and help them straighten themselves out. Good luck with that.

[Sigma 40 Blaster]

Guess the best way to put it was...he kept shooting when he should have stopped.

That's what I gathered from the newspaper story. It looked more like a revenge or prevention thing than a self defense thing (motive of the actor is a BIG deal). The story said he continued to shoot even when the guy was on the ground.

I can see that if the guy had a handgun or something and would not drop it but it's hard to justify shooting an un-armed guy on the ground while he's down. I think 2-3 shots COM this guy would have not been charged at all, walked or worst case got a considerably lighter charge. He's fortunate to have received 10 years.

[obxned]

Had anyone on the jury ever been around someone high on methamphetamine, the verdict would probably have been different.

[David Armstrong]

Nice attempt to play games and incite reactions but I am afraid it is not going to work.

No games, no incitement. I just think that when someone makes questionable statements or makes declarations that are not supported by facts they should be pointed out.

This guy was a loser.

That might be so. But that also is not what you originally said.

If you want to defend him and other people like him that is your choice.

Now it seems you are the one wanting to play word games and such. Nowhere have I suggested that I want to defend him or others like him.

Go ahead and defend all the drug addicts and alcoholics you like.

Again, you make a claim that is not accurate. You made a number of statements that in total disagree with the facts and reality of the world, you were called on it, and now you are trying to attribute actions or concerns to me that I have not expressed in order to distract from that.

[Hornett]

Josh jumped Saafi, threatened to kill him.

Saafi went in the house and got a gun. He unloaded seven bullets into Josh, pumping shots long after Josh's body hit the ground.

This may be rhetoric by the journalist, but if it happened like it says, I am afraid that I would have voted to convict also.
It makes it sound like Saafi went into the house after he was assaulted, came out with a gun and shot Kagel without any warning or any other interaction.
That's a bad shoot to me.

IMO, the tone of the article was slightly anti Saffi. For instance, Kagel was frequently referred to as Josh While Saafi was hardly ever called by his first name.
Maybe just because Osaiasi is so hard to spell...

[BikerRN]

Reading this thread brings to mind one point.

When the shooting is over, even the worst monster laying dead at your feet is somebody's child, loved one, parent, son, daughter, father or mother. Remember what Ted Bundy's mother said to him just before he was executed?

Biker

[pax]

Guess the best way to put it was...he kept shooting when he should have stopped.

Kind of gives a strong argument against the "shoot them to the ground" rhetoric.

pax

[jackmcmanus21]

unfortunately, we'll never know the truth when it comes to reading about an incident from a second hand source. Stories like this can be bias. I think he was right to defend himself, I don't think it was right to keep firing though.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I think Kathy the issue (pure speculation without seeing all the evidence) is that the defendant kept shooting when the deceased was on the ground and 'stopped'.

The forensics might have shown that the most damaging shots were fired when he was down.

[brickeyee]

Kind of gives a strong argument against the "shoot them to the ground" rhetoric.

Shoot them till they are no longer a threat.

This is not just "shoot them to the ground" but appears to be 'shoot them ON the ground.'

[spacemanspiff]

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/682293.html

MURDERER WHO WAS GRANTIED LENIENCY DIES

Less than seven months ago, Osaiasi Saafi was in court on a murder charge, looking at 25 years. Then, a twist: The family of the young man he shot and killed asked the judge for leniency. They didn't want to see two young lives wasted. He got the minimum for second-degree murder: 10 years.

Now Saafi, age 31, is dead too.

The prison inmate died Friday at Alaska Regional Hospital after surgery earlier in the week for a neurological problem, said Richard Schmitz, a spokesman for the state Department of Corrections. He had family with him.

A childhood friend, Ma'o Tosi, said Saafi's parents had questions about how such a young man went so quickly. They didn't yet want to talk publicly about it, he said. They didn't even know anything was wrong until Thursday, he said.

"They're still having a hard time with everything," said Tosi, who was with the family at the hospital.

Saafi's lawyer, Rex Butler, was out of town on Friday when he heard the news. He was upset.

"What? Are you kidding me?" Butler said. "That doesn't make any sense to me." He said he was aware that Saafi had a neurological problem but thought it was under control. He said he would try to find out more.

Saafi was serving his sentence at Spring Creek Correctional Center in Seward but was transferred to a mental health unit at Cook Inlet Correctional Center in November for observation and testing, Schmitz said. He had been exhibiting behavioral problems.

A brain scan in January found an abnormality, a mass of some sort, Schmitz said. Saafi had surgery on Tuesday and came out of it, but then rapidly deteriorated, he said.

Schmitz said he didn't know when Saafi's family was notified of his condition but said generally, the prison system lets inmates decide when to contact family about illness, even a serious one.

Before Aug. 28, 2005, Saafi had no history of violence, no criminal record, not even a speeding ticket. He stepped in that day to protect his cousin from her husband, Josh Kagel, as they fought on Airport Heights Drive.

Kagel was high and threatened Saafi. Saafi came out of the house with a gun, fired into Kagel seven times. At the trial, Butler argued that it was self defense. A jury called it second degree murder.

At the sentencing, Kagel's father and sister saw something in Saafi. They asked the judge to show him mercy, give him the lightest sentence possible.

"The feeling that my dad and I had when we left the courtroom that day was unexplainable and empowering," Shayna Kagel said Friday. She thought that Saafi had a chance to make something of himself one day, maybe work with troubled teens like his friend Tosi.

She's upset about his death. She feels for his family. She's glad she forgave him.

Saafi was supposed to get out in 2012.