Garand Trouble

M14fan · June 26, 2006, 05:14 PM

I have an M1 Garand 30-06 'Tanker' that I love to shoot and hunt with. The only problem I have with it is chambering the first round. When a fresh clip is inserted, the first round always seems to catch on the ramp. I have to slap the bolt to chamber the round. All subsequent rounds feed flawlessly but the problem will repeat with the next clip. I am using Balistic Tip or Winchester FailSafe Ammo. Niether has an exposed lead tip though the Balistic Tip is softer than the jacket. Do I need to polish the ramp? My local smith is unable to duplicate the problem. Maybe this is user error?

smince · June 26, 2006, 05:41 PM

People talk about "Garand Thumb", where your thumb gets smashed between the bolt and chamber because you didn't get it out of the way in time when you seated the clip. I have never experienced this, because the Garands I have owned all had a hesitation when the clip was inserted.

What I mean by this is the bolt didn't slam home. It would stay open until you pulled it back and released it on one. The other, the bolt would move forward a little and stop. Bumping it slightly would chamber the round, then everything worked fine and dandy after this.

Is the second example what yours is doing?

M14fan · June 26, 2006, 06:46 PM

That is exactly what it is doing. I am glad that I do not get my thumb slammed, but it concerns me that the rifle does not seem to be functioning exactly as intended. Excepting the first round, the 'Tanker' is 100% reliable.

reaper715 · June 26, 2006, 06:55 PM

my winchester garand does that also. you have to bump it a little to slam the bolt home.

M14fan · June 26, 2006, 06:57 PM

I gotta say guys, finding this to be a common condition is relieving my distress somewhat. After all, once the bolt closes, everything runs perfectly.

smince · June 26, 2006, 07:08 PM

I've read that this is common, and that the ones that slam home actually have to much wear on certain parts.

I ordered a "Holbrook Device" from Shotgun News. When you insert the clip, you must pull back the bolt and let it go home, similiar to loading an M14 or Mini-14. Also keeps the clip in until the clip latch is pushed. Great for load testing as the clip remains in the gun and single loading is possible. It was around $45.00.

Dfariswheel · June 26, 2006, 07:10 PM

Virtually ALL M1 rifles require a bump on the op rod handle to assist closing on the first round.

I've very rarely seen one that closed on it's own, without the bump.

M14fan · June 26, 2006, 07:26 PM

Very Interesting. Thanks.

support_six · June 27, 2006, 09:23 AM

All eight of mine are the same way. My father-in-law (a WWII and Korean War mud marine) said it was common when they were new.

30Cal · June 27, 2006, 09:51 AM

It takes just the right combination of bullet guide/oprod catch to get it to close on it's own. Well worn clips (or new ones with the lips bent open a bit) will also work better.

You pretty much have to be comatose to get your thumb bit while loading the rifle. As long as you hold the clip down, the bolt isn't going to come forward.

Now if you don't pull the oprod all the way back when cleaning and leave the bolt resting against the follower like a set beartrap, then stand by to be inducted into the Order of the Purple Thumbnail.

Ty

pesta2 · June 27, 2006, 10:13 AM

My M-1 does it also. I have seen war footage on TV and soldiers reloading there M-1’s. I have seen them insert a clip and then give the handle a slap forward.

onemsumba · June 27, 2006, 01:04 PM

The Term "tanker" Garand is a misnomer.

They were never intended to be used by tank crews. A few were cut down in I believe the Philippines as an attempt to make them more suitable for paratroopers. Springfield Armory then also made 2 to test. It was found to be an unsuitable modification with the recoil being to server for controllability.

I’m not sure on this point but I do believe that most of the ones out there have been cut down post their retirement to civilian life. As not that many were actually cut down.

Its one of my pet peeves that people refer to them as Tanker Garands.

On a side note: none of mine slide forward on inserting the clip they all need a bump. I know the one my dad was issued did slide forward and he did get M1 thumb a time or two.

support_six · June 27, 2006, 06:44 PM

onemsumba, what would you have him call it so that all might instantly understand what he has? I don't like the term "assault weapon" as used and misunderstood in the media, but it probably won't change until some other newsworthy word, most likely worse, replaces it. ...but it instantly brings to mind what is being talked about.

gdeal · June 27, 2006, 06:46 PM

They are too big and too heavy.

smince · June 27, 2006, 07:07 PM

Quote:

They are too big and too heavy.

And too accurate and too reliable and too powerful and...

Orion6 · June 27, 2006, 07:56 PM

Mine requires a love tap also. Beats a chance at M-1 thumb any day.

M14fan · June 27, 2006, 10:23 PM

Yes I know it is not really a 'Tanker'. That is just the most commonly used terminology and most people recognize what that means. It would be awkward to call it an M1 Garand Carbine don't you think?

There were approximately 1500 original M1 Garand rifles manufactured with 18" barrels and were designated (I believe) as T-26. Mine is an aftermarket conversion by Federal Ordinance. They are now out of business since retiring as the front organization for the Iran-Contra arms deal. Mine was VERY rough when I first received it (it was a special order) and I made a list of everything I found wrong with it and sent it back. If I hadn't recorded the serial number I would not have believed it was the same rifle. The only complaint I have had is the one regarding the bolt closure. I am happy to know that this is normal.
Thanks for all the helpful info.

nbkky71 · June 28, 2006, 01:39 PM

Quote:

They are too big and too heavy

Heavy...you want heavy? Come and shoot my AR15 that I use for highpower. It's just a tad over 16 pounds empty!

Shooting the M1 is a breeze!

226 · July 5, 2006, 09:33 AM

Watch how this guy loads.

rattle battle

...

TNT · July 5, 2006, 09:49 AM

Both of my Garands do the same thing. Gotta bump em. Speaking of tankers though. I gotta tell this story.

My dad bought a Tanker conversion from Springfield and when he first got it we took it out shooting and it went full auto and "PING" out comes a empty clip. I looked and dad and he said with confused eyes "it wasn't supposed to do that."

My dad who was working in the armory while he was in service knew the Garand very well he took it apart and found the problem called them up and talked to a gun smith there, they talked for a while and rather than sending the gun back dad talked them into sending the parts he needed and in return he would send the other ones back.

I thought a AK was deafening, OH NO NO NO the Tanker is worse. And full auto was even more so.

June 26, 2006, 05:14 PM	#1
M14fan Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 777	Garand Trouble I have an M1 Garand 30-06 'Tanker' that I love to shoot and hunt with. The only problem I have with it is chambering the first round. When a fresh clip is inserted, the first round always seems to catch on the ramp. I have to slap the bolt to chamber the round. All subsequent rounds feed flawlessly but the problem will repeat with the next clip. I am using Balistic Tip or Winchester FailSafe Ammo. Niether has an exposed lead tip though the Balistic Tip is softer than the jacket. Do I need to polish the ramp? My local smith is unable to duplicate the problem. Maybe this is user error? __________________ "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." --George Washington

June 26, 2006, 06:46 PM	#3
M14fan Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 777	Precisely That is exactly what it is doing. I am glad that I do not get my thumb slammed, but it concerns me that the rifle does not seem to be functioning exactly as intended. Excepting the first round, the 'Tanker' is 100% reliable. __________________ "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." --George Washington

June 26, 2006, 06:57 PM	#5
M14fan Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 777	Feeling better I gotta say guys, finding this to be a common condition is relieving my distress somewhat. After all, once the bolt closes, everything runs perfectly. __________________ "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." --George Washington

June 26, 2006, 07:26 PM	#8
M14fan Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 777	VERY interesting Very Interesting. Thanks. __________________ "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." --George Washington

June 27, 2006, 10:13 AM	#11
pesta2 Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2006 Location: Fairmont, WV Posts: 1,682	My M-1 does it also. I have seen war footage on TV and soldiers reloading there M-1’s. I have seen them insert a clip and then give the handle a slap forward. __________________ http://www.stevekonya.com

June 26, 2006, 05:41 PM	#2
smince Junior member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Location: Northeast Alabama Posts: 2,580	People talk about "Garand Thumb", where your thumb gets smashed between the bolt and chamber because you didn't get it out of the way in time when you seated the clip. I have never experienced this, because the Garands I have owned all had a hesitation when the clip was inserted. What I mean by this is the bolt didn't slam home. It would stay open until you pulled it back and released it on one. The other, the bolt would move forward a little and stop. Bumping it slightly would chamber the round, then everything worked fine and dandy after this. Is the second example what yours is doing?

June 26, 2006, 06:55 PM	#4
reaper715 Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2006 Location: north georgia Posts: 129	my winchester garand does that also. you have to bump it a little to slam the bolt home.

June 26, 2006, 07:08 PM	#6
smince Junior member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Location: Northeast Alabama Posts: 2,580	I've read that this is common, and that the ones that slam home actually have to much wear on certain parts. I ordered a "Holbrook Device" from Shotgun News. When you insert the clip, you must pull back the bolt and let it go home, similiar to loading an M14 or Mini-14. Also keeps the clip in until the clip latch is pushed. Great for load testing as the clip remains in the gun and single loading is possible. It was around $45.00.

June 26, 2006, 07:10 PM	#7
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	Virtually ALL M1 rifles require a bump on the op rod handle to assist closing on the first round. I've very rarely seen one that closed on it's own, without the bump.

June 27, 2006, 09:23 AM	#9
support_six Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2000 Location: Richland, WA Posts: 678	All eight of mine are the same way. My father-in-law (a WWII and Korean War mud marine) said it was common when they were new.

June 27, 2006, 09:51 AM	#10
30Cal Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2002 Posts: 1,264	It takes just the right combination of bullet guide/oprod catch to get it to close on it's own. Well worn clips (or new ones with the lips bent open a bit) will also work better. You pretty much have to be comatose to get your thumb bit while loading the rifle. As long as you hold the clip down, the bolt isn't going to come forward. Now if you don't pull the oprod all the way back when cleaning and leave the bolt resting against the follower like a set beartrap, then stand by to be inducted into the Order of the Purple Thumbnail. Ty

June 27, 2006, 01:04 PM	#12
onemsumba Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2006 Location: Back In Oregon now! Posts: 314	tanker Garand The Term "tanker" Garand is a misnomer. They were never intended to be used by tank crews. A few were cut down in I believe the Philippines as an attempt to make them more suitable for paratroopers. Springfield Armory then also made 2 to test. It was found to be an unsuitable modification with the recoil being to server for controllability. I’m not sure on this point but I do believe that most of the ones out there have been cut down post their retirement to civilian life. As not that many were actually cut down. Its one of my pet peeves that people refer to them as Tanker Garands. On a side note: none of mine slide forward on inserting the clip they all need a bump. I know the one my dad was issued did slide forward and he did get M1 thumb a time or two. __________________ No Wife

June 27, 2006, 06:44 PM	#13
support_six Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2000 Location: Richland, WA Posts: 678	onemsumba, what would you have him call it so that all might instantly understand what he has? I don't like the term "assault weapon" as used and misunderstood in the media, but it probably won't change until some other newsworthy word, most likely worse, replaces it. ...but it instantly brings to mind what is being talked about.

June 27, 2006, 06:46 PM	#14
gdeal Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 748	The trouble with Garands They are too big and too heavy.

June 27, 2006, 07:56 PM	#16
Orion6 Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Tennessee Posts: 340	Mine requires a love tap also. Beats a chance at M-1 thumb any day.

June 27, 2006, 10:23 PM	#17
M14fan Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 777	You Will Notice 'Tanker' is in half quotes Yes I know it is not really a 'Tanker'. That is just the most commonly used terminology and most people recognize what that means. It would be awkward to call it an M1 Garand Carbine don't you think? There were approximately 1500 original M1 Garand rifles manufactured with 18" barrels and were designated (I believe) as T-26. Mine is an aftermarket conversion by Federal Ordinance. They are now out of business since retiring as the front organization for the Iran-Contra arms deal. Mine was VERY rough when I first received it (it was a special order) and I made a list of everything I found wrong with it and sent it back. If I hadn't recorded the serial number I would not have believed it was the same rifle. The only complaint I have had is the one regarding the bolt closure. I am happy to know that this is normal. Thanks for all the helpful info. __________________ "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." --George Washington

July 5, 2006, 09:33 AM	#19
226 Member Join Date: May 7, 2005 Location: USA Posts: 99	Watch how this guy loads. rattle battle ...

July 5, 2006, 09:49 AM	#20
TNT Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: Back in glorious Nebraska Posts: 606	Both of my Garands do the same thing. Gotta bump em. Speaking of tankers though. I gotta tell this story. My dad bought a Tanker conversion from Springfield and when he first got it we took it out shooting and it went full auto and "PING" out comes a empty clip. I looked and dad and he said with confused eyes "it wasn't supposed to do that." My dad who was working in the armory while he was in service knew the Garand very well he took it apart and found the problem called them up and talked to a gun smith there, they talked for a while and rather than sending the gun back dad talked them into sending the parts he needed and in return he would send the other ones back. I thought a AK was deafening, OH NO NO NO the Tanker is worse. And full auto was even more so. __________________ "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man and brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."