why do you Kill ?

[45 Fu]

Overpopulation is a self-correcting problem, but how much suffering should we allow while things correct themselves? I prefer a solution to the problem that allows for those things which are going to die to do it quickly and in a manner that is as painless as possible.


I kill because I, in one way or another, do so to conform my surroundings to my liking (pest removal), to fill my belly (hunting), or to save my life. I am the top of the food chain. If the animals were smart enough they would turn the tables but, until then, I will continue to do what man does to be comfortable, safe, and well fed.

[Lawyer Daggit]

It occurs incidental to the hunt- I once helped a farmer slaughter stock during a drought and I felt really uncomfortable doing it and had dreams for weeks afterwards.

When it occurs incidentally to the hunt it is part of life- and tasteful.

Incidentally I take meat from what I shoot to eat and try not to waste and treat game taken with dignity.

A greeny would not understand what I am saying but I am sure you guys do.

[Ohio Annie]

It's important to realize that death by starvation is a SLOW and PAINFUL process, so much so that when people allow domestic animals to starve they are charged with cruelty to animals.

[Rojoe67]

I think the Buckeye has said what we all can agree the best two sentences on this topic...... Well said - it is just that simple too.....

*Annie congrats on another great NCAA football year... if your a Buckeye fan?

[Steve499]

It's a food chain thing, you know, we're at the top of it.

[FirstFreedom]

First, with respect to eating them. No it's not necessary to live, but there are reasons:

1. I agree that harvesting an animal from the wild is in a sense morally superior (IMO) to eating meat from animals raised in farms, in little cages, in terrible conditions, genetically engineered to the point where they can't walk from having such meaty bodies, etc. At least the critters I harvest had their lives up to that point to live free, and naturally. And they have a pretty decent chance of living their entire lives without being shot. No so for captive-raised meat consumed by the public. You could make a pretty decent argument that eating commercial meat is immoral, whereas hunting is not.

2. In addition, the meat I eat from wild animals is not contaminated with tons o' antibiotics and such that are injected into commerically raised animals. Plus, they're much leaner. As a result, it's arguable healthier. Perhaps not as healthy as a vegetarian diet, but healthier than commercial meat, IMO.

3. There's a certain definite satisfaction from eating game that you've harvested with your own hand. Very mentally satisfying. This must be a primal urge, dating back to cavemen days. Stronger in men than women, but present in some women too.

4. If you're really good, and hunt enough, you can actually save money over store-bought meat prices in the long run, once you've reached the break-even point and covered the initial outlay cost of your gear (guns, hunting equip, etc.). Granted, the venison I've eaten is well over $100/pound, when you factor this stuff in, but over my lifetime, that unit cost will come down, down, down, and eventually be a plus instead of a minus financially (or so I would like to think - provided I don't pay for a bunch of fancy guided hunts in AK, Can, Africa, etc. - then my meat would be very expensive indeed)

Next, to control pests/varmints:

-Many species are devastating irritants to our livestock, crops, infrastructure, pets, etc., and need to be culled to varying degrees, and some to the largest extent possible without making them become endangered, in many people's opinions anyway, including coyotes, crows, beavers, feral pigs, nutria, mice & rats, prairie dogs, moles, and other rodentia. Perhaps arguably skunks, though I don't view skunks as a problem. I suppose they can carry rabies, but so can dogs for that matter. Deer are also a nuisance in a sense, as mentioned, due to the ticks they carry and spread, and the cause of motor vehicle accidents.

[OBIWAN]

Because merely wounding the animal is inhumane

[Jan]

Rojoe67, you dont have to buy leather, there are other materials available.
as for the paper bit ,very funny !

[Jan]

joab, firstly the reason for 2 threads, was because i wasnt sure exactly where i would get the best response, i am new here.

2nd, i dont pay anyone to kill for me.
only meat i eat, is chicken , and turkey at xmas. these birds have been reared free range so i pay extra money for them, so in effect the extra money i pay ensures they have lived a free from suffering life.

[357MagFan]

Jan...do you work for peta? Trust me your wasting your time and effort

[Cowled_Wolfe]

Lemme quote Alton Brown, host of "Good Eats" on the food network... Context: He's answering the question of "Do you buy free range chickens?"

"There's nothing wrong with a free range chicken. I just can't find anybody I respect who can actually tell me there's anything really better about a free range chicken. You know, the fact that a chicken's got a little bitty square space that they can walk around, or that they throw the door open on the chicken house so that they can go out. Well guess what, chickens don't like going out, they like staying in; so I don't know. Higher quality feed is certainly an issue. I mean, the better food the chicken is gonna get, or any other animal for that matter, the better it's gonna taste. So I certainly won't say no to free range chicken, but I'm also not gonna pay that much extra for it. Untill somebody convinces me otherwise."

Emphasis is mine.

Btw, I'd like to know how you know the farm is treating the chickens nicely. Do you ever visit the farm? Do you ever visit the slaughterhouse to make sure they're gentle about cutting the heads off?

[joab]

i dont pay anyone to kill for me.

So you buy your free ranged chickens live?
Or do you buy them already slaughtered?
Do you think the man that did the killing did it for the thrill or for pay?

If you truly believe that eating meat or using dead animal products is wrong then practice veganism.

If you don't believe that doing so is wrong then don't try to take some moral highroad about how some choose to obtain that dead flesh.

If you pay for dead meat then you have also paid into the system that creates dead meat.

This may surprise and even horrify you to learn, but the only way to create dead meat is to kill something with meat on it.

If you buy that dead meat from the person who created that dead meat or from the person who bought it from the person who created that dead meat then you have paid somebody to do something you don't have the stomach to do for your self i.e. KILL
Thereby maintaining your ability to look down your nose at those who create your dead meat and also those that create their own dead meat

And fair enough to the answer to question 1

[jailmedic]

Jan buys a special breed of free-range chickens bred to grow to a certain size then commit chicken-suicide, thereby relieving him/her of any guilt from the idea that he/she might have actually paid a part of his/her purchase price for someone to kill for him/her.....
I'm fairly certain that Jan has never eaten an elk tenderloin.... he/she would most likely switch teams......

[Jan]

357magfan. no i dont belong to peta.

[Jan]

jailmedic, didnt realize this was a game.

[Jan]

joab, what i should have said was that i used to buy free range chickens, but have actually stopped because the shop stopped stocking them.
so i really only buy one free range turkey a year, as i can get that from another shop.

all ive done is ask a question

i think your a bit ott, but thats just my opinion.

[jailmedic]

You know, humor?
It is a terrible flaw to take oneself too seriously.....
You don't like hunting? Don't hunt.
If you can come up with a clever, humorous remark about those of us who do shoot and kill things and then eat them, I'll laugh right along with you....

[Jan]

cowled wolf, the chickens were monitored by an animal welfare body.

[jailmedic]

Have you ever had elk tenderloin?
I mean.... a free range elk.......

[grey_pilgrim]

Jan, it comes down to these reasons:

1)I like hunting and
2) If hunting is wrong, its just as wrong as any other type of slaughtering of animals, humane or no.

People often say "if you are going to eat meat, should go to a slaughterhouse and watch <insert animal here> being slaughtered, so you know what it involves"

The people who hunt here have "gone to a slaughterhouse" many times. Every time they kill a big game animal, in fact. People have said this before, and i'll say it again: I don't see what makes hunting worse than what goes on at a slaughterhouse.

We aren't built like the herbivores.

But you are perfectly within your rights not to hunt and not to eat meat . . . so long as you don't try to take hunting away from us.

[Cowled_Wolfe]

cowled wolf, the chickens were monitored by an animal welfare body.

And what body is that? What farm did the chickens come from?

If you're going to give me a response, make it in full with details and all... Otherwise, I'm inclined to see you as pulling on my leg.

[joab]

i think your a bit ott, but thats just my opinion

And I think you have proven yourself to be a bit hypocritical, but that's just my opinion.

Either you are against killing animals or you are not.
If you are then you could not condone killing in any form.
Instead you use some pathetic and weak argument that the animal that was killed for your benefit was not kept in a cage before you had it snatched up by the feet , plopped down across a chopping block, and beheaded while scraming in disbelief that the people who had treated it so humanely were now executing it.
I know 'cause I've done it so some self righteous goof could feel good about not buying grocer meat

Somehow to you that is better than a wild animal who has never even seen a cage and has lived his entire life as nature intended dying at the hands of a superior predator, which as every deer but Bambi was taught by their mother is also in nature's plan

[Long Path]

Wow. Lots of people attacking Jan. No need for that, friends! She did just ask a question. No need to get defensive. I for one am secure enough in my actions and philosophy to respond without animosity at the mere question.

Jan says that she is willing to pay extra for free-range chickens and turkeys, so that her prey lived without suffering and lived healthier. Frankly, I think that's admirable: anyone who's ever seen what conditions most market chickens live in knows that they're usually packed intolerably tight, in unsanitary conditions, and are fed some unhealthy (for us) feed.

But here's the thing: all of the meat that I harvest in a fair chase is "free range". It's all eaten healthy foods. It all lived happily in its natural environment before I took it humanely.

• What's the moral difference between buying a "free range" turkey and shooting one in the wild?
  
• What's the moral difference between buying a "free range" chicken and shooting a quail in the field? (Other than the fact that the quail tastes better.)
  
• What's the moral differance between buying (and thus killing) a chicken and buying a cow? (And you may rest assured, most cattle I've ever seen in my life here in Texas are "free range" until they go to the feed lots in the last couple of weeks.)
  
• If a cow, why not a deer?

[Mannlicher]

why don't ya go troll somewhere else? well, why? I think "Better Homes and Gardens" might be a friendlier place for someone that has to question why folks hunt, on a gun board.

[joab]

No need to get defensive.

Perhaps it's because we have been to the sister thread and read more of what was implied by both questions

you say kill or be killed, i dont understand. no animal will attack me in my home, so this must mean that i would have to go find them in their natural habitat, so they can be killed.personally i dont think thats fair.

im talking about killing, creeping up on something thats doing no harm to you, and wiping it out.

,i understand that if that is the only food you can get. i wouldnt expect anyone to starve. but on the whole most of us can buy or grow food, i dont buy much meat, only buy it if i know its been treated well in life.

And this response to a post that made no mention of killing being funny

old fud, so you find it funny to kill,

The question was indeed clear and simple as was the agenda behind it