Powder for .223 Load

P-990 · November 13, 2006, 08:00 PM

Hey all. I'm working on a short-range (100-200 yard) .223 load using 52gr HPBT match bullets. These will be fired out of a NM-preped AR-15. My intention is to use them for practice at reduced ranges during the winter months; I will use heavier loads for actual matches.

Anyway, the point I'm wondering is, which powder(s) should I try? I have a case of CCI-450 SR Magnum primers on hand, which I am assuming will work best with some kind of ball powder, such as 748. I'm going to try them with Varget anyway, as I have 8 pounds of it (that ought to load most of the upcoming season's ammo needs). Just loaded half a box to test, actually.

What other powders do you all suggest? I'm going to try some on-hand H4895 as well, as I am willing to buy a couple of pounds of a powder just to use up those primers over the winter.

Any other thoughts?

Also: I'm using the shorter/lighter bullets to save wear on my barrel. They also seem to foul less than the longer/heavier loads I use normally. I'm not worried about "ultimate" accuracy with the small bullets; 1-MOA or so will suffice.

amamnn · November 13, 2006, 09:47 PM

H335 (also a ball powder) is probably the most used powder for small bore match ammo. Vihtavuori Ni33 and N135 are also popular match powders.

amamnn · November 13, 2006, 09:53 PM

that was supposed to be N133 not i33. BTW, when the ball powder/mag primer argument was at its height I asked Winchester techs about it and they strongly advised against using mag primers with their ball powders unless in a magnum case. I've never used them myself, but I do know a couple of locals who did-- were not injured-- and went back to standard primers with 748.

P95Carry · November 13, 2006, 10:09 PM

I have used N133 for a long time - like its characteristics, clean burn and good metering.

Pity VV is so darned expensive tho.

Buckythebrewer · November 13, 2006, 10:28 PM

a2015br is very clean and meters very well in a cheap Lee PPM.I use h4895 and it works great for heavy 77-80gr bullets through the same PPM(both extruded powders)..H335 is too fine for my liking but it does shoot good.2015br is very clean and good for lighter bullets and the best ive used for around 55gr bullets.JMO

P-990 · November 13, 2006, 10:33 PM

Thanks for the suggestions all.

Right now I've got 25 rounds loaded with Varget and 25 loaded with 748, all with CCI-450 primers and 52gr Hornady HPBTs. Can't wait to take 'em out and send them through the wringer!

amamnn,
What kinds of problems were experienced? I AM keeping the loads throttled quite a bit back, both because I don't have a need for blazing speed at 100 yards (or even 200 for that matter) and my experience was that the 450s gave me a 50-fps increase over standard primers when I chrono'ed them with Varget a couple of years back.

Funny thing; BR4s gave about the same speed as the 450s, with lower SD and better groups. I really, really liked the way my 600 yard ammo shot in my old barrel. I'm hoping the new barrel takes to the same combo as well. It likes the old brew for 77gr ammo well enough. (2.5" sitting rapid group at 100 and I was the weak link and called at least one shot out.

)

PDshooter · November 13, 2006, 11:48 PM

I use 25GR H335 behind a once pulled 63Gr bullet.....Great blasting ammo for my AR

amamnn · November 14, 2006, 10:32 PM

p-990 I am not sure what happened. As I said, it was not me. I don't think these guys had any real disasters-- word of that kind of thing gets around the clube and the circuit pretty fast. I would guess that they had performance issues and/or saw not improvement using them.

P95carry--you're right about that!!! one reason I went back to H335 is that I can special order it locally and my gunshop sells it to me for the regular price.

PDshooter--using H335 and cannelured bullets????!!!!!!! Oh the humanity

Toolman · November 15, 2006, 09:21 PM

PDshooter, H335 is my favorite powder AND I use cannelure bullets too. Just tried some 92 gr FMJBT's last weekend. Groups were <MOA @ 100 yds....

P-990 · November 17, 2006, 10:18 PM

Well, after today's shooting, I've decided to go with WW 748, the CCI-450s and the stubby little 52gr match hollowpoints for 100-yard shooting. When I was doing my part, they were flying straight and true: 100-yard X-ring groups, no problem with these.

Granted, an SR-1 X-ring is about 1.5" across, but it's a place to start. Time to stop fussing with the load and go shoot!

Edited: Forgot to mention that that's prone w/ irons.

amamnn · November 19, 2006, 06:37 PM

748 is good stuff, too. Maybe a little dirty.

November 13, 2006, 08:00 PM	#1
P-990 Senior Member Join Date: May 2, 2002 Location: Only1/2WayThere Posts: 1,316	Powder for .223 Load Hey all. I'm working on a short-range (100-200 yard) .223 load using 52gr HPBT match bullets. These will be fired out of a NM-preped AR-15. My intention is to use them for practice at reduced ranges during the winter months; I will use heavier loads for actual matches. Anyway, the point I'm wondering is, which powder(s) should I try? I have a case of CCI-450 SR Magnum primers on hand, which I am assuming will work best with some kind of ball powder, such as 748. I'm going to try them with Varget anyway, as I have 8 pounds of it (that ought to load most of the upcoming season's ammo needs). Just loaded half a box to test, actually. What other powders do you all suggest? I'm going to try some on-hand H4895 as well, as I am willing to buy a couple of pounds of a powder just to use up those primers over the winter. Any other thoughts? Also: I'm using the shorter/lighter bullets to save wear on my barrel. They also seem to foul less than the longer/heavier loads I use normally. I'm not worried about "ultimate" accuracy with the small bullets; 1-MOA or so will suffice. __________________ NRA Master, Highpower Rifle, Across-the-Course NRA Expert, Highpower Rifle, Mid-Range Prone

November 13, 2006, 09:47 PM	#2
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	H335 (also a ball powder) is probably the most used powder for small bore match ammo. Vihtavuori Ni33 and N135 are also popular match powders. __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal

November 13, 2006, 09:53 PM	#3
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	oops typo--again that was supposed to be N133 not i33. BTW, when the ball powder/mag primer argument was at its height I asked Winchester techs about it and they strongly advised against using mag primers with their ball powders unless in a magnum case. I've never used them myself, but I do know a couple of locals who did-- were not injured-- and went back to standard primers with 748. __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal

November 13, 2006, 10:09 PM	#4
P95Carry Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Location: South PA, and a bit West of center! Posts: 300	I have used N133 for a long time - like its characteristics, clean burn and good metering. Pity VV is so darned expensive tho. __________________ Chris - P95 (P97 also!) Guns don't kill people - people kill people. NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member. Rohrbaugh interest/ownership? - Rohrbaugh Forum Rohrbaugh R9 FAQ Site

November 13, 2006, 10:33 PM	#6
P-990 Senior Member Join Date: May 2, 2002 Location: Only1/2WayThere Posts: 1,316	Thanks for the suggestions all. Right now I've got 25 rounds loaded with Varget and 25 loaded with 748, all with CCI-450 primers and 52gr Hornady HPBTs. Can't wait to take 'em out and send them through the wringer! amamnn, What kinds of problems were experienced? I AM keeping the loads throttled quite a bit back, both because I don't have a need for blazing speed at 100 yards (or even 200 for that matter) and my experience was that the 450s gave me a 50-fps increase over standard primers when I chrono'ed them with Varget a couple of years back. Funny thing; BR4s gave about the same speed as the 450s, with lower SD and better groups. I really, really liked the way my 600 yard ammo shot in my old barrel. I'm hoping the new barrel takes to the same combo as well. It likes the old brew for 77gr ammo well enough. (2.5" sitting rapid group at 100 and I was the weak link and called at least one shot out. ) __________________ NRA Master, Highpower Rifle, Across-the-Course NRA Expert, Highpower Rifle, Mid-Range Prone

November 13, 2006, 10:28 PM	#5
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	a2015br is very clean and meters very well in a cheap Lee PPM.I use h4895 and it works great for heavy 77-80gr bullets through the same PPM(both extruded powders)..H335 is too fine for my liking but it does shoot good.2015br is very clean and good for lighter bullets and the best ive used for around 55gr bullets.JMO

November 13, 2006, 11:48 PM	#7
PDshooter Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2000 Location: Indiana Posts: 607	I use 25GR H335 behind a once pulled 63Gr bullet.....Great blasting ammo for my AR __________________ Life member NRA 20yrs guard . MOS 63H 11B 43E Shoot Shovel Shut-up!

November 14, 2006, 10:32 PM	#8
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	p-990 I am not sure what happened. As I said, it was not me. I don't think these guys had any real disasters-- word of that kind of thing gets around the clube and the circuit pretty fast. I would guess that they had performance issues and/or saw not improvement using them. P95carry--you're right about that!!! one reason I went back to H335 is that I can special order it locally and my gunshop sells it to me for the regular price. PDshooter--using H335 and cannelured bullets????!!!!!!! Oh the humanity __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal

November 15, 2006, 09:21 PM	#9
Toolman Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 514	PDshooter, H335 is my favorite powder AND I use cannelure bullets too. Just tried some 92 gr FMJBT's last weekend. Groups were <MOA @ 100 yds.... __________________ Crime Control. NOT Gun Control.

November 17, 2006, 10:18 PM	#10
P-990 Senior Member Join Date: May 2, 2002 Location: Only1/2WayThere Posts: 1,316	Well, after today's shooting, I've decided to go with WW 748, the CCI-450s and the stubby little 52gr match hollowpoints for 100-yard shooting. When I was doing my part, they were flying straight and true: 100-yard X-ring groups, no problem with these. Granted, an SR-1 X-ring is about 1.5" across, but it's a place to start. Time to stop fussing with the load and go shoot! Edited: Forgot to mention that that's prone w/ irons. __________________ NRA Master, Highpower Rifle, Across-the-Course NRA Expert, Highpower Rifle, Mid-Range Prone

November 19, 2006, 06:37 PM	#11
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	748 is good stuff, too. Maybe a little dirty. __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal