.41 Colt revolver ???

[bswiv]

I've got a .41 Colt, New Army I think, that I was just given. It looks old but sound. One thing that struck me as unusual though is that the cylinder will rotate in EITHER direction when the hammer is at rest.

Is that normal?

[Jim Watson]

Nope.
But those early double actions were not real strong and something being broken or worn is not unusual.

[Dfariswheel]

Yep it's normal for the early version.
The early model Colt New Navy revolver had an action design that allowed the cylinder to rotate freely unless it was cocked.
The problem was, it was easy to inadvertently rotate the cylinder and have a fired chamber come up for the next shot.
Colt recognized this as a fault and quickly corrected it in later models.

The Colt New Navy Model 1889 was the world's first double action, swing-out cylinder revolver.
As soon as the Army also bought the gun, the name was changed to the Colt New Army & Navy Model.
This was the gun that failed in the Philippines and led to the adoption of the Model 1911 .45 Automatic.

Colt was feeling their way with the new technology, and the guns underwent a rapid series of improvements over the following years. Colt made these as the Models 1889, 1892, 1894, 1895, 1896, 1901, and 1903.

Depending on the actual model you have, it's either normal for the cylinder to rotate, or in later models it's a sign of a problem in the action.
Unfortunately, these guns are complicated and fragile, breaking easily.
Usable parts are nearly unobtainable, and virtually no gunsmith will even attempt repairs.

[bswiv]

More information..........

On the barrel, right side....and it's printed upside down?......is the following: Colt's Pt F.A. MFG. CO. Hartford CT U.S.A.
Patented Aug. 5th 1883, Novemebr 6th 18?8

On the left side it's marked: COLT D.A. 41

Cylinder, frame and crane are marked 706

Base of the butt is marked: 79
60
Just like that, on top of each othere.

Release latch is also marked 706

Looks like 4 grove to the left rifling.

Hard rubber grips.

So what else does this tell you experts?

[bswiv]

Even more info:

When it's cocked single action the cylinder will move a good 1/4 inch in either direction!!! Looks like it will rotate far enough to where it posibly could jam up with the bullet when fired. For sure could shave lead............

Notches at the back of cylinder look VERY rounded but the parts the engague them to rotate it look crisp..............

I'm thinking it's not safe to shoot................

[bswiv]

Noticed this also..........the cylinder does not have notches in it for the locking device that normally sticks up from the bottom of the frame when a modern revolver is cocked................?

[Dfariswheel]

The action is definitely broken or worn. When the hammer is cocked the cylinder should lock solidly with no movement.
The gun is absolutely NOT to be fired in this condition.

You have the very first model, the Model 1889. Again, this was the very first double action, swing-out cylinder revolver ever made.
The Colt Model 1889 New Navy revolver had NO cylinder locking notches on the outer perimeter of the cylinder like more modern guns. The cylinder locks on the REAR of the cylinder.

"706" is a factory assembly number. These numbers were stamped on major parts during finishing and fitting to insure the parts stayed together. The serial number was stamped later, and it's stamped on the bottom of the butt in these early models.
The actual serial number is 7960, which means the gun was made in 1890, the second year of production.
The numbers that year ran from 5200 to 10399.
Since there are no US Navy marks, this was a commercial model.

The key identifying features of the 1889 are:
The cylinder with long flutes, no outer locking notches, and the cylinder locking on the ejector ratchet at the rear.
Serial number under 31,000.
The patent dates of August 5, 1884, November 6, 1888.
Two or three digit assembly numbers on cylinder release, the crane, the frame inside facing the crane, the bottom of the barrel breech, the cylinder, and inside the grips. Note again, these are NOT the serial number).

[bswiv]

Thank you.

Will NOT shoot it.

Probably will sell it. Is it of any value to collectors? It looks OK on the outside but I've no way to know if it's been reblued.

[Dfariswheel]

There is some collector's interest, but mostly in US Navy-marked guns and guns in good working condition.

Assuming the gun is not a re-blue, one in 50% condition AND WORKING PROPERLY would be worth "about" $600.

[bswiv]

How do I tell if it's a reblue job?

It's got a shine to it and there are spots of rust.............?

[Dfariswheel]

Look for sharp corners and edges that are rounded off.
Look for ripples or wavy areas on the flats and down the barrel.
Look for pitting UNDER the bluing. When blued metal rusts, the rust removes the bluing and leaves a pit and a bare area.
When the metal is RE-blued the pits and the bare metal will be covered by the new bluing.
Look for lettering and the Colt Pony to be partially polished away.

Look for marks that have the raised edges polish off.
When guns are marked, the markings are actually applied with a roller engraver.
A super-hard steel wheel has the markings engraved on it.
The part to be marked is locked in a stand, and the hard steel wheel is rolled over the metal under tremendous pressure.
This literally presses the markings into the metal.
When this is done, some of the metal around the marks get squeezed up around the markings like a rim around a crater.

When a gun is re-blued, those raised areas get polished off, leaving the markings very smooth.

[bswiv]

Thank you.

I'll pull it back out of the safe and give it a hard look.

If it looks reblued, and as it appears unsafe, then it would be about worthless?

[Dfariswheel]

It's always worth something.