Qualifying tomorrow

GLP Standard · October 13, 2005, 09:01 PM

Well, im 20 years old, and new to guns. First gun I fired was a Glock 23, with no instruction. I did really horrible at first, and did EVERYTHING wrong. The past 3 days ive been in a firearms training class for my work, and the instructor is REALLY good. Hes one of the best id have to say. His name is Glen Jefferson incase anyone has ever heard of him.

Anyway..point is, I went in there knowing very little about handguns. Only having put 400 rounds through a Glock 23, I was inexperienced, and didnt shoot well at all. I was also a little afraid of the gun. I knew how to use it, and how to operate it, but I was very careful with it, and sometimes wasnt sure of things, and didnt handle it aggressively at all. Its amazing what 3 days of class did to me. The first day wasnt even anything hands on, so that doesnt even really count. I learned so much in 2 days, that I feel I can shoot 200% better. Im not even scared of the gun anymore. Now that I know how it works, Im more aggressive with it, and more confident. I know that handling live ammunition is different than dummy rounds, but I feel ill be able to approach them both the same.

I havent fired a gun since this class started. But tomorrow im qualifying on the same course law enforcement use. Ill let everyone know how it goes. The only difference is LE has to score 70%, I have to score 80%, so its actually a little harder on me. I just thought I would share how amazing it is how much 2 days of instruction can help anyone. I feel so much more confident and experienced than I was before. This guy can do amazing things with any gun you hand him. Some things I couldnt even believe.

The only bad thing about all this is, is I didnt get to shoot with a Glock like I originally thought and hoped for. Im using an old Police Issue Beretta 96 .40 cal. I dont mind the Beretta. I didnt think I would like it at first, but its actually a nice gun. I still wish I got the Glock though. Im fascinated with how simple and safe of a gun it is, and how easy it is to use. Not to mention its smaller than a Beretta and a lot lighter too.

Anyone ever felt hopeless with a gun and then had a little bit of instruction and then turned right around?

USP45usp · October 13, 2005, 09:25 PM

GLP Standard,

First, welcome.

Second, any training that I've had, has helped in one way or the other. It looks as if you have a tough course coming up, the best thing to do is just KIS(S); Keep it Simple.

Don't try so hard to do everything right (with the exception of the rules, always obey the rules, talking more about the breathing, the stances, etc..) and just relax.

If you are under time limits, you will feel the need to jerk, fire quickly, trying to do so accuratly, and trying to do everything right.

You will be amazed just how long 1 minute, 3 minutes, etc.. really are. The time is just said out loud to mess with your mind. Your mind, which is working, thinking, doing things in less than a second takes the time and converts it to it's time. One second to it is actually .0001 sec's (made up time but I'm trying to say that the mind is fast and the actions that it demands are fast) so your mind thinks that it's under pressure when no real pressure exists.

In the AF, we were at the CATM range qualifing on the M-16 and the M-9. During the first round, when the range officer called out what we were supposed to do, and then the time in which we had to do it, all the rifles went "bang, bang, bang, bang, etc..) for 10 shots. And then the range officer called time and it seemed like it took forever for him to do so. The range was quiet for what seemed like the time limit that we had.

The SP commander was at CATM that day and he walked over (He had a Patton complex, two .45's on his hip but I will say that he was cool, and knew how to use them also) and had us group up. He explained, it's a mind thing, nothing else. You hear "30 secs", "1 minute", and your mind loses the concept of real time. You have actually fired all your rounds, in about the 1/3rd of time alloted to you. Slow it down.

We then went back and we slowly started to slow down. After our 40 rounds rifle (only had to score 20/40) and our 40 round pistol (same). He came over and asked if we wanted to do a 10/10.

A 10/10 is ten shots in ten seconds with at least a 8+ to pass. It was one of his tests that he had his SP's go through to improve and to learn. Of course, we said yes.

Now, that is 10 shots in 10 seconds. Real quick right. Not really. We did the 10/10 (I only got 7 out of ten, not bad he said. Only one got 8+ and he got all 10. He was an SP so I guess that he had to

). It was all a mind thing, the mind was what sped up time, that thought that it had a short amount of time to perform a simple task.

Good luck on your quals. For a newbie to guns, it seems as if you are heading down the right path. Don't worry, you will get better with time. Just keep on practicing and don't let a bad day get you down. And if you want to see exactly how long time really is, hold your breathe for 60 seconds (unless you're in really good shape, then for at least 180 seconds) and you will see exactly how long a minute, or 3 minutes, really are

.

Wayne

us.armysniper · October 13, 2005, 09:47 PM

Good Luck!

GLP Standard · October 14, 2005, 03:15 PM

Well today sucked. Im highly disappointed, as I didnt qualify. I think the highest score I got was 190 out of a required 200. I got to the range today at 8:00 and we practiced the whole shindig, and I was shooting crappy from the start. I think if I had a Glock like Ive been practicing, I would have gotten it. Ive been shooting a Glock for the past month and a half, and its the only gun ive fired. They gave me a Beretta, which is a completely different trigger pull, different recoil, the gun is a lot heavier so it was harder for me to line the sights up for my next shot, the grip felt completely different. Ive been a little upset about it all day, because I should have qualified.

2 girls in the class who were completely clueless, and shot like crap qualified. I think theyre going to give me another try next week, and I told them to try and get me a Glock, and they told me to practice with the Beretta until then. I think my main problems were my Grip, and my Trigger Pull. If I worked on those better, I would have had it. I didnt get a chance to practice just shooting before the actual test. We just went through it about 3 or 4 times, which really wasnt giving me any idea on how well I was shooting. If I saw that I wasnt hitting the target in the center as much as I should, I could have tried something else.

Here is the course I had to run through:

Stage 1: (3 yards, 6 rounds) Draw and fire 2 rounds in 2 seconds using strong hand only.

We had to do this 3 times. This wasnt such a problem. I actually got most of the hits in the 8 ring or better, which is the highest point on the target we used.

Stage 2: (7 yards, 20 rounds) Draw and fire 3 rounds in 5 seconds; keep target covered. On command fire 2 rounds in 3 seconds; keep target covered.
on command fire 1 round; Reload and fire 2 rounds with the support hand only in 15 seconds. Reload and Holster; Then draw, and fire 12 rounds in 20 seconds with a required magazine change.

This is probably where I started to mess up a little. My grip probably wasnt good enough, and my trigger pull probably messed me up a lot of the shots.

Stage 3: (15 yards, 12 rounds) Draw and fire 6 rounds, and then drop to one knee; do a magazine change, and fire an additional 6 rounds.

This part, same thing as Stage 2. Probably my grip and trigger pull threw me off a lot.

Stage 4: (25 yards, 12 rounds) Draw and go to a prone position behind a barricade. Fire 6 rounds, stand, and make a magazine change. Then fire 6 rounds from a standing position in 60 seconds.

That was the day firing course. The night firing course (which I didnt get to do) is a little bit different, so I wont bother explaining that as I didnt do it today.

The time limits arent a problem, except on the first one. Theres plenty of time to do everything, but I really need to work on my grip. This was shot at a B-27 target, with .40 cal JHP. Total of 50 shots was used in the qualification. Scoring is 8 ring and better is 5 points, 7 ring is 4 points, and everything else on the sillouette is 3 points. I think my highest I scored was 190, with a required 200 (80%) to pass.

Any advice I can get for when and if I go next week? I really cant believe I didnt qualify today. I feel I could have done it with a Glock. I gotta get some practice and learn my grip and trigger pull, and I think ill have it.

esheato · October 14, 2005, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Any advice I can get for when and if I go next week? I really cant believe I didnt qualify today. I feel I could have done it with a Glock. I gotta get some practice and learn my grip and trigger pull, and I think ill have it.

I think you answered your own question. Get some quality practice in with the Beretta. Build some confidence with that gun. Don't discount the importance of dry fire either. You'll get there...just keep practicing.

Ed

Bravo25 · October 14, 2005, 07:53 PM

I have shot these courses several times in qualifications. Just remember the more you hit in the early close up stages, the less you have to hit at the longer distances. That and practice, practice, practice.

USP45usp · October 14, 2005, 10:01 PM

Let's see:

Not very familiar with firearms.

Doesn't have a lot of practice with firearms.

Uses a Glock which I've heard is totally different from real guns (

)

Shoots a 190 when the qualifying score is 200.

Not bad, not bad at all. I am impressed.

Practice with the Beretta, you did well with an unfamiliar gun IMHO. Good job. But if you have to qual with the Beretta, then practice with the Beretta.

What I want to know, were you firing your last round right on the line (time) or when you cleared, when did they call time? Shooting faster then need be?

Wayne

GLP Standard · October 14, 2005, 10:19 PM

Yeah, I am shooting faster than needs to be. The time doesnt stop when I shoot my last round, it keeps going until the time runs out. The only ones that I cut it close on are the 2 rounds in 2 seconds, and the 12 rounds in 20 seconds with a mag change. I have to rush on that one a little but. But the 12 rounds in 60 seconds prone and then standing I feel I could get a cup of coffee in between when I lay down and stand up. I could take my time a little bit more. I hope I qualify. I think I need instruction. I may pay for a lesson, or ask the owner of the range to show me a few things.

Ozzieman · October 15, 2005, 07:42 AM

It will come, one of your problems could be that your having to un learn the mistakes you made in the first 400 rounds with out training beforehand.
I was the same way 25 years ago, loved to shoot couldn’t hit the right side of a barn from the inside, I wasn’t funny to me at the time.
What he told me to do is get a good 22, that right a good 22. There is no recoil, the gun doesn’t jump around. Let’s face it a Glock is a good gun but a poor one to start out with. The weight changes a lot from full to empty mag and the triggers are not much to right home about.
What he had me do is shoot every day 100 rounds of 22. Start at 7 yards, that’s right very close at 7 yards. And shoot until I ate the center of the target out and then move back to 15, and continue until I was happy with my ability.
The 22 isn’t a macho BANG gun, but if you’re trying to train to improve your shooting skills it is the best you can start with.
Lets face it, if you can’t shoot a 22, you sure an H—L not going to shoot a 9mm well.
So relax and get, borrow or buy a good cheep 22 and shoot every day.

October 13, 2005, 09:01 PM	#1
GLP Standard Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2005 Posts: 286	Qualifying tomorrow Well, im 20 years old, and new to guns. First gun I fired was a Glock 23, with no instruction. I did really horrible at first, and did EVERYTHING wrong. The past 3 days ive been in a firearms training class for my work, and the instructor is REALLY good. Hes one of the best id have to say. His name is Glen Jefferson incase anyone has ever heard of him. Anyway..point is, I went in there knowing very little about handguns. Only having put 400 rounds through a Glock 23, I was inexperienced, and didnt shoot well at all. I was also a little afraid of the gun. I knew how to use it, and how to operate it, but I was very careful with it, and sometimes wasnt sure of things, and didnt handle it aggressively at all. Its amazing what 3 days of class did to me. The first day wasnt even anything hands on, so that doesnt even really count. I learned so much in 2 days, that I feel I can shoot 200% better. Im not even scared of the gun anymore. Now that I know how it works, Im more aggressive with it, and more confident. I know that handling live ammunition is different than dummy rounds, but I feel ill be able to approach them both the same. I havent fired a gun since this class started. But tomorrow im qualifying on the same course law enforcement use. Ill let everyone know how it goes. The only difference is LE has to score 70%, I have to score 80%, so its actually a little harder on me. I just thought I would share how amazing it is how much 2 days of instruction can help anyone. I feel so much more confident and experienced than I was before. This guy can do amazing things with any gun you hand him. Some things I couldnt even believe. The only bad thing about all this is, is I didnt get to shoot with a Glock like I originally thought and hoped for. Im using an old Police Issue Beretta 96 .40 cal. I dont mind the Beretta. I didnt think I would like it at first, but its actually a nice gun. I still wish I got the Glock though. Im fascinated with how simple and safe of a gun it is, and how easy it is to use. Not to mention its smaller than a Beretta and a lot lighter too. Anyone ever felt hopeless with a gun and then had a little bit of instruction and then turned right around?

October 13, 2005, 09:47 PM	#3
us.armysniper Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2005 Location: Out of the U.s more than In it! Posts: 248	Good Luck! __________________ Sic Vis Pacem, Para Bellum I will Never Forget 16 Aug 2004, Sadr city Iraq

October 14, 2005, 07:53 PM	#6
Bravo25 Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2005 Location: Kansas Posts: 432	I have shot these courses several times in qualifications. Just remember the more you hit in the early close up stages, the less you have to hit at the longer distances. That and practice, practice, practice. __________________ If more laws restricting our rights will make us free from harm, why aren't we safe yet? We are only less free. When faced with impossible overwhelming odds, prudance would dictate the only thing left is to figure out what is possible, and to do it. Punishment for all crimes should increase until the recitivism rate approaches zero.

October 15, 2005, 07:42 AM	#9
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	First off relax It will come, one of your problems could be that your having to un learn the mistakes you made in the first 400 rounds with out training beforehand. I was the same way 25 years ago, loved to shoot couldn’t hit the right side of a barn from the inside, I wasn’t funny to me at the time. What he told me to do is get a good 22, that right a good 22. There is no recoil, the gun doesn’t jump around. Let’s face it a Glock is a good gun but a poor one to start out with. The weight changes a lot from full to empty mag and the triggers are not much to right home about. What he had me do is shoot every day 100 rounds of 22. Start at 7 yards, that’s right very close at 7 yards. And shoot until I ate the center of the target out and then move back to 15, and continue until I was happy with my ability. The 22 isn’t a macho BANG gun, but if you’re trying to train to improve your shooting skills it is the best you can start with. Lets face it, if you can’t shoot a 22, you sure an H—L not going to shoot a 9mm well. So relax and get, borrow or buy a good cheep 22 and shoot every day.

October 13, 2005, 09:25 PM	#2
USP45usp Junior member Join Date: May 17, 2000 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 3,427	GLP Standard, First, welcome. Second, any training that I've had, has helped in one way or the other. It looks as if you have a tough course coming up, the best thing to do is just KIS(S); Keep it Simple. Don't try so hard to do everything right (with the exception of the rules, always obey the rules, talking more about the breathing, the stances, etc..) and just relax. If you are under time limits, you will feel the need to jerk, fire quickly, trying to do so accuratly, and trying to do everything right. You will be amazed just how long 1 minute, 3 minutes, etc.. really are. The time is just said out loud to mess with your mind. Your mind, which is working, thinking, doing things in less than a second takes the time and converts it to it's time. One second to it is actually .0001 sec's (made up time but I'm trying to say that the mind is fast and the actions that it demands are fast) so your mind thinks that it's under pressure when no real pressure exists. In the AF, we were at the CATM range qualifing on the M-16 and the M-9. During the first round, when the range officer called out what we were supposed to do, and then the time in which we had to do it, all the rifles went "bang, bang, bang, bang, etc..) for 10 shots. And then the range officer called time and it seemed like it took forever for him to do so. The range was quiet for what seemed like the time limit that we had. The SP commander was at CATM that day and he walked over (He had a Patton complex, two .45's on his hip but I will say that he was cool, and knew how to use them also) and had us group up. He explained, it's a mind thing, nothing else. You hear "30 secs", "1 minute", and your mind loses the concept of real time. You have actually fired all your rounds, in about the 1/3rd of time alloted to you. Slow it down. We then went back and we slowly started to slow down. After our 40 rounds rifle (only had to score 20/40) and our 40 round pistol (same). He came over and asked if we wanted to do a 10/10. A 10/10 is ten shots in ten seconds with at least a 8+ to pass. It was one of his tests that he had his SP's go through to improve and to learn. Of course, we said yes. Now, that is 10 shots in 10 seconds. Real quick right. Not really. We did the 10/10 (I only got 7 out of ten, not bad he said. Only one got 8+ and he got all 10. He was an SP so I guess that he had to ). It was all a mind thing, the mind was what sped up time, that thought that it had a short amount of time to perform a simple task. Good luck on your quals. For a newbie to guns, it seems as if you are heading down the right path. Don't worry, you will get better with time. Just keep on practicing and don't let a bad day get you down. And if you want to see exactly how long time really is, hold your breathe for 60 seconds (unless you're in really good shape, then for at least 180 seconds) and you will see exactly how long a minute, or 3 minutes, really are . Wayne

October 14, 2005, 03:15 PM	#4
GLP Standard Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2005 Posts: 286	Well today sucked. Im highly disappointed, as I didnt qualify. I think the highest score I got was 190 out of a required 200. I got to the range today at 8:00 and we practiced the whole shindig, and I was shooting crappy from the start. I think if I had a Glock like Ive been practicing, I would have gotten it. Ive been shooting a Glock for the past month and a half, and its the only gun ive fired. They gave me a Beretta, which is a completely different trigger pull, different recoil, the gun is a lot heavier so it was harder for me to line the sights up for my next shot, the grip felt completely different. Ive been a little upset about it all day, because I should have qualified. 2 girls in the class who were completely clueless, and shot like crap qualified. I think theyre going to give me another try next week, and I told them to try and get me a Glock, and they told me to practice with the Beretta until then. I think my main problems were my Grip, and my Trigger Pull. If I worked on those better, I would have had it. I didnt get a chance to practice just shooting before the actual test. We just went through it about 3 or 4 times, which really wasnt giving me any idea on how well I was shooting. If I saw that I wasnt hitting the target in the center as much as I should, I could have tried something else. Here is the course I had to run through: Stage 1: (3 yards, 6 rounds) Draw and fire 2 rounds in 2 seconds using strong hand only. We had to do this 3 times. This wasnt such a problem. I actually got most of the hits in the 8 ring or better, which is the highest point on the target we used. Stage 2: (7 yards, 20 rounds) Draw and fire 3 rounds in 5 seconds; keep target covered. On command fire 2 rounds in 3 seconds; keep target covered. on command fire 1 round; Reload and fire 2 rounds with the support hand only in 15 seconds. Reload and Holster; Then draw, and fire 12 rounds in 20 seconds with a required magazine change. This is probably where I started to mess up a little. My grip probably wasnt good enough, and my trigger pull probably messed me up a lot of the shots. Stage 3: (15 yards, 12 rounds) Draw and fire 6 rounds, and then drop to one knee; do a magazine change, and fire an additional 6 rounds. This part, same thing as Stage 2. Probably my grip and trigger pull threw me off a lot. Stage 4: (25 yards, 12 rounds) Draw and go to a prone position behind a barricade. Fire 6 rounds, stand, and make a magazine change. Then fire 6 rounds from a standing position in 60 seconds. That was the day firing course. The night firing course (which I didnt get to do) is a little bit different, so I wont bother explaining that as I didnt do it today. The time limits arent a problem, except on the first one. Theres plenty of time to do everything, but I really need to work on my grip. This was shot at a B-27 target, with .40 cal JHP. Total of 50 shots was used in the qualification. Scoring is 8 ring and better is 5 points, 7 ring is 4 points, and everything else on the sillouette is 3 points. I think my highest I scored was 190, with a required 200 (80%) to pass. Any advice I can get for when and if I go next week? I really cant believe I didnt qualify today. I feel I could have done it with a Glock. I gotta get some practice and learn my grip and trigger pull, and I think ill have it.

October 14, 2005, 10:01 PM	#7
USP45usp Junior member Join Date: May 17, 2000 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 3,427	Let's see: Not very familiar with firearms. Doesn't have a lot of practice with firearms. Uses a Glock which I've heard is totally different from real guns ( ) Shoots a 190 when the qualifying score is 200. Not bad, not bad at all. I am impressed. Practice with the Beretta, you did well with an unfamiliar gun IMHO. Good job. But if you have to qual with the Beretta, then practice with the Beretta. What I want to know, were you firing your last round right on the line (time) or when you cleared, when did they call time? Shooting faster then need be? Wayne

October 14, 2005, 10:19 PM	#8
GLP Standard Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2005 Posts: 286	Yeah, I am shooting faster than needs to be. The time doesnt stop when I shoot my last round, it keeps going until the time runs out. The only ones that I cut it close on are the 2 rounds in 2 seconds, and the 12 rounds in 20 seconds with a mag change. I have to rush on that one a little but. But the 12 rounds in 60 seconds prone and then standing I feel I could get a cup of coffee in between when I lay down and stand up. I could take my time a little bit more. I hope I qualify. I think I need instruction. I may pay for a lesson, or ask the owner of the range to show me a few things.