The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 2, 2013, 09:48 PM   #1
rmocarsky
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2009
Posts: 406
Racking a P238

Gunners,

I am interested in pocket carry and one of the resounding suggestions is the Sig P238.

Only problem is . . . I can't get comfortable with cocked and locked pocket carry.

I have also read that the little 380 is very easy to rack.

True?

Rmocarsky
rmocarsky is offline  
Old August 2, 2013, 09:53 PM   #2
comn-cents
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2008
Location: Pac.N.W.
Posts: 1,804
I pocket carry in one of these http://pjholster.com/?page_id=95.
Cocked & locked works great, never a problem, it racks very easily.
__________________
Be Smarter Than A Bore-Snake!
comn-cents is offline  
Old August 2, 2013, 11:28 PM   #3
grogg88
Junior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2013
Posts: 8
Sad to say, but I've even performed an inadvertent drop test while cocked and locked. No issues, but even if the hammer had somehow fallen it does have a FPB.

Also, yes they have a light recoil spring and racking is performed easily.
grogg88 is offline  
Old August 2, 2013, 11:39 PM   #4
dakota.potts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 25, 2013
Location: Keystone Heights, Florida
Posts: 3,084
Racking a P238 is incredibly easy. My mom has systemic lupus which affects the joints and it was the only one she was able to slide.

After some time with my CZ 75, the slide on the 238 feels like a toy It is seriously nothing. Lighter than some .22s I've used
dakota.potts is offline  
Old August 3, 2013, 12:21 AM   #5
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 10,966
Learn to carry with the chamber loaded and the hammer down. Thumb cock the hammer. It's safe.
__________________
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is offline  
Old August 3, 2013, 07:04 AM   #6
kcub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2010
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,318
+1

For years I carried a Colt Pocketlite in condition 2. You can cock upon drawing after practice (unloaded of course). This is a good skill for da/sa guns as well. It's more precise to cock it and use it single action.
kcub is offline  
Old August 3, 2013, 08:30 AM   #7
Ibmikey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 1, 2013
Location: Now relocated to Texas
Posts: 2,943
I agree with Bill and Kcub, for pocket carry have round in chamber hammer down safety off. I have a P238, P938 and several Star DK pistols that are carried in this fashion in the pocket or IWB holster. I have no problem carrying cocked and locked until dropping into a pocket, unpleasant things could happen.
Ibmikey is offline  
Old August 3, 2013, 10:48 AM   #8
comn-cents
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2008
Location: Pac.N.W.
Posts: 1,804
I carried a mustang in a pocket cocked & locked for a couple of years and never had a problem. I carry a p238 the same way going on 4 years still no problem. I've never heard of one going off magically in anyone's pocket because they carried Cocked&Locked!
__________________
Be Smarter Than A Bore-Snake!
comn-cents is offline  
Old August 3, 2013, 11:58 AM   #9
Mystro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2004
Location: Central Pa.
Posts: 1,528
Cock and locked is the only way the gun was designed to be carried. Its safe and has always been the way a 1911 type gun is made to be carried. Not to be too direct but, its your hang up if you cant understand and accept the way it is to be correctly carried. You shouldn't have to figure a work around carry method to your illogical fears.
__________________
"I'm a good guy with a gun" What do I care if I give up some freedom or rights?....The Goverment will take care of me. This kind of thinking is now in the majority and it should concern you.

"Ask not what you can do for your country, but what free entitlements you can bleed from your country"
Mystro is offline  
Old August 3, 2013, 12:51 PM   #10
grogg88
Junior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2013
Posts: 8
Re: Racking a P238

Quote:
Originally Posted by comn-cents View Post
I carried a mustang in a pocket cocked & locked for a couple of years and never had a problem. I carry a p238 the same way going on 4 years still no problem. I've never heard of one going off magically in anyone's pocket because they carried Cocked&Locked!






Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystro View Post
Cock and locked is the only way the gun was designed to be carried. Its safe and has always been the way a 1911 type gun is made to be carried. Not to be too direct but, its your hang up if you cant understand and accept the way it is to be correctly carried. You shouldn't have to figure a work around carry method to your illogical fears.
Exactly! Definitely no worse than carrying one in the chamber on a striker fired pistol...

As I noted above, it has a firing pin block. Unless your safety gets turned off and the trigger pulls itself in your pocket you should be fine.
If I didn't feel comfortable carrying in condition 1 then I wouldn't own it.
grogg88 is offline  
Old August 3, 2013, 01:31 PM   #11
tipoc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 11, 2004
Location: Redwood City, Ca.
Posts: 4,114
Quote:
I have also read that the little 380 is very easy to rack.
Yes it's true with any method of racking the slide. The traditional method of racking is to hold the frame stable with the strong hand and pull the slide quickly rearward with the weak hand. The more recently developed method is to hold the slide stable with the weak hand and push the frame forward with the strong. This is particularly simple.

Also...

Quote:
Cock and locked is the only way the gun was designed to be carried. Its safe and has always been the way a 1911 type gun is made to be carried.
This is not true. The 1911 was designed to be carried safely with the methods the military wanted of which cocked and locked is one. While many prefer c&l for it's speed and simplicity it is not always the best for all situations.

The P238, like the Colt Mustang, can be safely carried with the hammer down on a live round. The 238 I notice, has a half cock position.

At any rate if a person does not feel comfortable with Condition 1 carry there are the other options available. I encourage folks to learn all the modes of carry so they can use each one or not as they feel the need or the situation calls for.

Quote:
Not to be too direct but, its your hang up if you cant understand and accept the way it is to be correctly carried. You shouldn't have to figure a work around carry method to your illogical fears.
I've never seen a fella adopt C&L carry because another fella berated them into it. I've met many people adopt Condition 1 carry because they were trained for it and gained confidence in the guns and their abilities. This usually comes as a result of some work.

Also it is entirely a "correct" way to carry the gun condition 2 or three. May not be best in some situations but that is for the person carrying the gun to decide. Works best that way inmy experience.

tipoc
tipoc is offline  
Old August 3, 2013, 02:27 PM   #12
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 10,966
No, condition one is not the ONLY way these guns were designed to be carried.
The 1911 was actually designed to be carried hammer down, condition 2.
__________________
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is offline  
Old August 3, 2013, 03:00 PM   #13
Koda94
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2012
Location: Cascadia
Posts: 1,287
The Sigs and Colts SA pocket pistols are great choices, carry them however you want just make certain you follow rule #2 if your lowering the hammer on a live round for conditon 2 carry.
__________________
lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2
Koda94 is offline  
Old August 3, 2013, 07:19 PM   #14
Peter M. Eick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 3, 1999
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 2,991
Just keep in mind these are not true 1911's. Like the original poster there are times I feel a bit uncomfortable carrying the 238 C&L'ed in a front pocket holster. I prefer carrying either hammer down empty or hammer down on a live round.
__________________
10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!
Peter M. Eick is offline  
Old August 5, 2013, 08:54 AM   #15
Mystro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2004
Location: Central Pa.
Posts: 1,528
Find any credible shooting institutions that advises carrying a 1911 type gun in any other condition than "cocked and locked"......there isn't any. Been to Gunsite twice and I can guarantee you that you would never ever be allowed to carry, practice or train with the 1911 in any other carry method than the "Cocked and Locked". Lets address the OP gun itself and see what the Sig manual states as a safe way of carrying the P238. They go out of their way to warn the operators never to carry the P938 with the hammer down on a live round. I suppose you could drive your car around with the door pushed open but that wouldn't be advisable either.

There is nothing complicated or debatable about this subject.
Carry it as pictured and advised by every firearm institution and manufacturer of the gun.
__________________
"I'm a good guy with a gun" What do I care if I give up some freedom or rights?....The Goverment will take care of me. This kind of thinking is now in the majority and it should concern you.

"Ask not what you can do for your country, but what free entitlements you can bleed from your country"

Last edited by Mystro; August 5, 2013 at 08:36 PM.
Mystro is offline  
Old August 5, 2013, 09:48 AM   #16
hardhat harry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2010
Location: I've moved...
Posts: 233
The P238 WAS NOT DESIGNED to be carried in Condition 2, it is not a 1911. Read the owners manual, it specifically mentions NOT lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber. Either carry it loaded and locked, or carry it with the chamber empty (which is not a good idea for self defense).

Get a good pocket holster that covers the trigger if there is a concern about somehow putting the thumb safety OFF and pulling the trigger while in your pocket.
__________________
"Let me live in my house by the side of the road and be a friend to man."
hardhat harry is offline  
Old August 5, 2013, 10:15 AM   #17
Mystro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2004
Location: Central Pa.
Posts: 1,528
Non of today's 1911's are ment to be carried with the hammer down in a live round. All 1911's will show in their manual that they are only designed to be carried "Cocked and Locked". This is not debatable so let's not start any misinformation for new gun owners.
__________________
"I'm a good guy with a gun" What do I care if I give up some freedom or rights?....The Goverment will take care of me. This kind of thinking is now in the majority and it should concern you.

"Ask not what you can do for your country, but what free entitlements you can bleed from your country"
Mystro is offline  
Old August 5, 2013, 02:11 PM   #18
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 10,966
Horsepoop!
All 1911s have an inertial firing pin.
The thumb safety was added to the 1911 at the request of the cavalry.
While I do agree that condition 1 is the preferred method of carry today, condition 2 is not unsafe.
I have no direct knowledge of the SIG gun, other than it is a copy of a gun that is safe to carry in condition 2.

BTW- the safety is "OFF" in your picture!
__________________
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is offline  
Old August 5, 2013, 02:25 PM   #19
hardhat harry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2010
Location: I've moved...
Posts: 233
Condition 2 is not unsafe..GETTING IT THERE IS.
__________________
"Let me live in my house by the side of the road and be a friend to man."
hardhat harry is offline  
Old August 5, 2013, 02:38 PM   #20
TailGator
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 8, 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,786
The P238 does rack easily. The arguments against carrying unchambered are that racking the slide takes time that you may not have, and is done most efficiently with two hands and you won't always have two hands free. Both are valid arguments against carrying without a round in the chamber, but are to one extent or another equally valid arguments against carrying in ankle holsters, belly bands, kangaroo-style holsters, and tuckable holsters.

The safety of the P238 clicks very decisively on and off. Cocked and locked is safe with that pistol. I would recommend carrying with a chambered round in a holster that covers the trigger guard for it and any quality handgun. Carrying without a chambered round is a legitimate option if you just can't get comfortable with the idea, though, and is better than being completely unarmed.

Quote:
Condition 2 is not unsafe..GETTING IT THERE IS.
There is much wisdom to that argument relative to the P238; there is not a provided mechanism for decocking other than pulling the trigger and holding the hammer back. If done at all, it should certainly not be done without having the pistol pointed in a safe direction like a sand barrel, swimming pool, or a portion of the earth certain to be free of rocks or other hard objects.
TailGator is offline  
Old August 5, 2013, 02:45 PM   #21
hardhat harry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2010
Location: I've moved...
Posts: 233
Thanks Tailgator. Lots of folks going off Half-Cocked

nevermind
__________________
"Let me live in my house by the side of the road and be a friend to man."

Last edited by hardhat harry; August 5, 2013 at 02:46 PM. Reason: add
hardhat harry is offline  
Old August 5, 2013, 03:39 PM   #22
spacecoast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2009
Location: Sunshine and Keystone States
Posts: 4,461
Quote:
Carry it as pictured
Quote:
BTW- the safety is "OFF" in your picture!
True, according to Page 11 of http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/CmsC...01.2%20web.pdf

But hey, maybe that's how you carry the knife too

Personally, lacking a grip safety, I think I would be very hesitant to carry it in Condition 1 in a pocket. The holster mentioned at http://pjholster.com/?page_id=95 looks very good, however.
spacecoast is offline  
Old August 5, 2013, 06:15 PM   #23
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 10,966
People think nothing of using a decocker on a gun. These are mechanical devices and I have seen them fail. I always lower the hammer with my thumb-decocker or not.
Of course you have to be careful lowering the hammer on a single action gun. After all, it's a GUN. If you train properly, it's as safe as any other gun handling.
__________________
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is offline  
Old August 5, 2013, 07:40 PM   #24
kcub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2010
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,318
mighty purty grips, Mystro
kcub is offline  
Old August 5, 2013, 08:44 PM   #25
Mystro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 2004
Location: Central Pa.
Posts: 1,528
Picture corrected. Grips are custom charcole box elder burl from "High figure grips". His grips are amazing and you get to select the exact wood since every pattern/hue is individual.

__________________
"I'm a good guy with a gun" What do I care if I give up some freedom or rights?....The Goverment will take care of me. This kind of thinking is now in the majority and it should concern you.

"Ask not what you can do for your country, but what free entitlements you can bleed from your country"
Mystro is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.09589 seconds with 10 queries