Fired first batch today, not too good. PICS ADDED

[hulley]

Hello all,
I fired my first batch of 9mm today.
Berry's 124gr JHP
6.0gr of Accurate #5
Federal small primers
OAL 1.095
Lee 4pc pistol dies on a Lee Turret Press

I had problems with the round seating all the way into the barrel. Every round fired and ejected but I had to push the slide forward on probably 6-7rds of the 30rds that I fired. This happened with my Kahr CW9 and my Sig P225.

Any suggestions? Does it sound like I'm not getting a good crimp? I didnt want to fire off any more until I try something else.

Thanks
Steve

[TXGunNut]

Could be crimp, could be bullet seating depth. 9mm requires a light taper crimp that is actually little if any more than removing the flare made to allow the base of the bullet to enter the case. Seating depth error is common as well, simply remove the barrel from your pistol and drop the loaded round in the chamber. Base of the cartridge should be even with the part of the barrel that contacts the breech face. There's a great post with very clear pics around here somewhere that illustrates headspacing for auto pistols.

[BigJimP]

I'd suggest you buy a case gague ...and check all those rounds...and see if they drop in and out easily ..if they don't - then make some die adjustments.

My hunch is ...you might not be getting all the belling out of the case / that you put in prior to seating the bullet - in your final crimp stage - and a little adjustment is all you need.

You can do the same thing ---by removing the barrel from your gun / and drop rounds into the chamber ..and turn it upside down ...and drop them out. That will tell you if you need some adjustment. If they stick or don't drop all the way in ...then make a die adjustment.

On all finished rounds ...I use a case gague - to check every round as I wipe them down and box them up for storage. If it sticks going in or out ..I reject it ...and inspect it. You might find a little burr on the bottom of the case ...or a little crack that opened up as you seated the bullet ...but once your dies are all set - I only reject a couple rounds out of 1,000...

I suppose its possible your dies are not tight in the press ...or you have some gunk built up in your seating die or the final crimp die...so go back and check all that stuff.

[mkl]

Two suggestions:

1) Don't crimp. Set your "crimp" die to just straighten out the flare you put in the case mouth to facilitate bullet seating. Look at a factory round and notice zero crimp.

2) You may not be sizing the case all the way to the base. Be sure your sizing die is really full length sizing, and not leaving the last 1/8 inch or so of the case still expanded to whatever chamber it was fired in.

Take the barrel off your pistol and use it as a case gauge. Drop a factory round in the chamber and note how far down it goes. Then try one of your hand loads. They should both seat to the same depth in your barrel chamber.

[armoredman]

Listen for a "tink" instead of "thud"...the case moth is what 9mm headspaces on. If it thuds and doesn't fall out when turned upside down, your bullet is engaging the lands.
the Lee FCD die should remove any case chambering issues, if you are using it, (you said a 4 die set), and it is set up correctly. If so, it's COAL. I've used this bullet before, good plated bullet, and I got mine to work just fine at 1.075 COAL.

[hulley]

Thanks guys, I'll pull my barrels and check the remaining rounds. I'll also order a case gauge. If they dont fall out of the barrel, should i back off the crimp die? Does that also mean my current crop is unuasble (I know I can pull the rounds and start over.)? Or should I go to 1.075?

[TXGunNut]

Does that also mean my current crop is unuasble (I know I can pull the rounds and start over.)? -hulley


Not necessarily. You can likely seat the bullets a bit deeper and apply a bit more "crimp" if needed.

[hulley]

i just grabbed a handful and none of them seated all the way let alone fall out on their own. I tried some speer GDJHP and they fell in and out with ease. the Speer has a longer OAL then my rounds. Speer is 1.12 OAL. What does it mean if I go shorter higher pressure? Which die take the belling out? the charge die? if I look carefully I can see where the rounds are still belled at the bottom.

[CherokeeT]

Make sure the bullet is not touching the lands. If so, deeper seating needed. Make sure the case mouth is straight or tapered slightly (.378" @ the mouth), adjust the crimp on the remaining ones and try them.

[TXGunNut]

Excess belling at the case mouth can be resolved by adding a bit of crimp. If the body of the case is too big I'd pull bullets and start over.

[mkl]

I can see where the rounds are still belled at the bottom.

Belling refers to the flare at the case mouth.

If by "bottom" you mean the part of the case body near the head of the case, your problem is that you are not sizing the case all the way down.

Make sure your bullet is not contacting the lands. If it is you need to seat a little deeper.

Cartridge too long, case mouth bell not removed, or case not fully resized all the way. Any one of these three can cause the problem you are experiencing.

[armoredman]

Look at the instructions that came with the Lee die set. Set up the FCD for medium crimp. Run one through it. Try to chamber. If it doesn't, it's likely bullet ogive hitting lands, and you will have to shorten them up. It may be both causes.

[FrankenMauser]

If the cartridges are easily pushed into the chamber, I would think the culprit would be a lack of crimp (or over-crimping, and causing a case bulge).

[hulley]

ok, i just got back from my LGS which is where i got my Lee. The owner and I are good friends and a big time re-loader. i bought a case gauge and bullet puller and I'm gonna have to plain start over. When you place a factory round next to one of mine, you can see an hour glass shape in the brass. He told me it could be a couple of things causing that.
1. I'm pushing the brass to far up in the resizing die and its causing it too flare at the neck.
2. I'm crimping too much and its causing case to bulg.

I'm gonna start over completly and now that I have a better idea of what to look for I think I'll do better.
Thanks for all the replies, I really appreciate the help. I'll post some pics of current rounds and after rounds.

[hulley]

Here are some pics. Do the bullets look okay to re-use?

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Looks like WAY too much crimp. As stated above, you want to crimp to just remove the flare you put on the case. Nothing more. The crimp does not add tension on the bullet.

Also, as stated above, remove your barrel and use that as a case gauge. Your bullets may need to be seated a bit deeper, but make sure you stay with spec for that load.

You are distorting your bullet with the crimp. Plated bullets are lead bullets with a thin plating on them. If you see a ring around a bullet that you pull from a loaded round you are "crimping" more than just removing the flare. You just barely want to feel any sort of "crimping" when the ram is at the very top of the stroke. This ensures you are JUST removing the flare.

[hulley]

Thanks Illinois, after i removed the bullet and saw that ring I was thinking the same although I'm new at this so I wasnt too sure.

I'm gonna start from scratch and now that I have a little better idea of what to look for I think I'll make some progress.

[Nnobby45]

Any suggestions? Does it sound like I'm not getting a good crimp? I didnt want to fire off any more until I try something else.

Hot reloading tip of the day. FREE!

You don't have to go to the range to start testing your ammo. Your barrel is a perfect gage to see if your ammo meets spec.

Drop a loaded round into your barrel (REMOVED from your pistol, of course) and the round should drop BELOW flush with the barrel with a noticeable PLOP. Turn bbl. upside down and the round should fall right out.

This tells you that you have a bullet that is not too long, and that the case mouth was restored to proper dimension by the crimp. On the crimp, measure a factory round at the case mouth diameter, and make your ammo is the same. Don't over crimp. You have a good caliper, right? If not, get one.

TIP #2. Bullets with different nose shapes contact the rifling differently---some sooner than others. Proper overall cartridge length for one bullet is not necessarily proper for another. Flat nose bullets are different from round nose, and HP's a very different and MUCH shorter OAL.

NOTE: the seat depth (amount of the bullet down in the case) would be about the same for bullets of the same weight. OAL will vary, however.

TIP #3 Bullet has to be seated deep enough to feed, fit in the magazine, and hold the bullet in the case securely. DO NOT seat bullet too deep, since you can raise pressure. .40 caliber is the worst in that regard.

[Mal H]

Everything ICH said is spot on.

Just eyeballing the round on the left, I swear it looks too long. Doing some measurements on the picture, it appears the round is close to 1.15" OAL. That is on the long side (okay, really long), and can account for the hard chambering.

Double check your OAL measurement method. I'm fairly certain neither of those are 1.095" OAL.

[Nnobby45]

Just eyeballing the round on the left, I swear it looks too long. Doing some measurements on the picture, it appears the round is close to 1.15" OAL. That is on the long side (okay, really long), and can account for the hard chambering.

Without doubt.

Using bbl. as a guage, as I described, simply seat the bullet a little deeper until int plops in a little below flush. Then make sure it's not still too long to fit in the magazine. Load the mag full and make sure they thumb back out easily without sticking.

This insures that your ammo fits gun, mag, and isn't seated too deep. From there you can seat deeper to meet OAL given in the manual for the SAME type bullet.

Not to be presumptuous, but it sounds like you don't have a caliper. I'd recommend a digital caliper. Midway USA would be a good place to start.

[FrankenMauser]

Just eyeballing the round on the left, I swear it looks too long. Doing some measurements on the picture, it appears the round is close to 1.15" OAL. That is on the long side (okay, really long), and can account for the hard chambering.

Looks like a factory load to me, a Gold Dot, to be precise. The matte nickel finish is the give-away that it's a Speer product. (And, above, he mentioned trying some Speer GDJHPs. )
You were pretty close with that estimate:

I tried some speer GDJHP and they fell in and out with ease. the Speer has a longer OAL then my rounds. Speer is 1.12 OAL.

I run them in my P95, when it's on SD/HD duty. They sure do look funny, but feed and chamber just fine.

[Jim243]

Get yourself some decent bullets, I have had no luck with those same bullets, in my opinion, just a waste of money.


Jim

[hulley]

Thanks guys. I forgot to mention that the round on the left is a Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P. That round measured in at 1.125 OAL.
Yes i do have digital calipers. Thanks for the TIPS!

[hulley]

JIM243, I'm not very impressed with Berrys bullets. They may be HP but it doesnt look like they would expand reliably.

[hulley]

Mal H, how can you measure on a screen? besides two different reloading books said NOT to exceed 1.169 OAL. Thats still longer then the 1.15 that you stated was too long. Not trying to be a smarta$$ but I'm fairly new to reloading. Should I not go beyond 1.15 OAL?