Hi to all from sunny Puerto Rico

Carbineman · February 8, 2016, 10:21 AM

Hi, to all, wishing a very pleasant and healthy new year.

Retired History professor, enjoying free time. May say that I’m new to reloading. Looking to learn the science behind it; say, the nuts and bolts.

I recently started in competition shooting, reason for my wanting to know about ballistics, trajectory, etc. Putting reloading to service besides economy and lack of ammo.
Military rifle collector, so many of them I shoot but the scarcity of ammo here in the Island pushed me into reloading.

Your help and wisdom is much appreciated as I am here to learn from the Pros, you all.

My respect to the community.

Yours must humble servant,
Carbineman

Mauser69 · February 8, 2016, 10:48 AM

Your first step should be to by Modern Reloading by Richard Lee and read it in depth. You will get more understanding about reloading in general and specifics about cartridge pressures and how they affect the results than any other source I know. After you have carefully digested what he writes, you will already know more than about half the people who will respond to you on these forums, and all of your questions will be meaningful. More importantly, you will already have enough knowledge to reasonably identify the intelligent responses when two posters disagree with each other.

Even if you never actually start reloading, this book will give you a much better understanding of what is going on in your guns.

Do disregard at first all the sales pitches in the book for Lee equipment - it is not that any of what he says about his own equipment is wrong, it is just not important in the initial learning phase. It is his book, and he has a right to focus on his equipment and not the competitors. All companies make some very good equipment for reloading, and probably some you do not want to own. As your knowledge builds, you will be able to begin differentiating between the two. Personally I do like a lot of Lee stuff (not all), but I tend to also buy other brands to go with it. I do not recommend his book because I like his equipment, but specifically because he has better information for someone looking to learn.

Metal god · February 8, 2016, 11:10 AM

Hello from sunny San Diego & Welcome to TFL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauser69

After you have carefully digested what he writes, you will already know more than about half the people who will respond to you on these forums, and all of your questions will be meaningful.

Agreed , It shows right off the bat . I did not see a question in the OP

F. Guffey · February 8, 2016, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Military rifle collector, so many of them I shoot but the scarcity of ammo here in the Island pushed me into reloading.

I will assume that means you are reloading as opposed to going to start.

F. Guffey

chris in va · February 8, 2016, 05:52 PM

Forgive my ignorance, but can you enlighten us to what the gun atmosphere is there in PR? I just assumed everything gun related was highly restricted or banned.

Clark · February 8, 2016, 08:32 PM

There is a retired history professor that lives near me that is a gun nut.
He does not know as much about guns as me, but he knows a lot more about history. He is 90 an still publishing.
I asked him why Teddy Roosevelt was a republican and FDR was a democrat. He said the FDR wing stayed in europe for a while and got converted. ... It sounds better when he says it.

Hammerhead · February 9, 2016, 03:14 AM

Welcome Carbineman.
I was stationed at Roosevelt Roads & lived in Fajardo in 1979 & '80. Loved every minute of it. Warm memories (it's 10º here).

catgunguy · February 9, 2016, 07:19 AM

Welcome Carbineman.

Will be interesting to here about your shooting in a different world, than here in the cold.

Carbineman · February 9, 2016, 09:10 AM

Mauser69; Thanks for your response and sound advice, I appreciate it.
I just ordered Richard’s book.
I respectfully quote: “More importantly, you will already have enough knowledge to reasonably identify the intelligent responses when two posters disagree with each other”.
Not in the business or arguing, too many years as a History professor, but certainly is good to know how to separate the wheat from the chaff.



Carbineman · February 9, 2016, 09:16 AM

Metal god, thank you for your attention and certainly I agree with you; “right off the bat”.
No, there was no question, yet, I may say. Just introducing myself to the community.
Question will be in shortly…

Carbineman · February 9, 2016, 09:22 AM

F. Guffey; hi.
May say that have done some reloading, standard numbers because of need for all the old irons. But guess I’m ready for the real reloading science, or maybe it’s a shot to Madame Luck at some competitions. I’ll let you know how it goes; that is, if I count your knowledge?

g.willikers · February 9, 2016, 10:09 AM

Didn't Puerto Rico recently liberalize their gun laws quite a bit?

Carbineman · February 9, 2016, 10:17 AM

Chris in va,
No ignorance in the asking, ignorance prevails without questions. As Benjamin Franklin once said— the doorstep to the temple of wisdom is knowledge of our own ignorance.

I can say that we [not] enjoy one of the strictest gun law, besides California or New York. Anyone that complies with ATF’s basic rules can have a gun license. Yes, a license, and that is not the problem, which is, the great expenses one has to bear.
We have a Gun License with three categories: Sport target shooting, hunting and concealed carry. One has to file a petition with the State police, pay a fee of $150, three sworn statements from person that have known you for at least three years or so; family not included. Non alimony debtor, no taxes due, (that proves you are no criminal), and a good standing certificate issued by the Police.
If you comply with ATF’s rules, in 120 day you have your license, but only for target shooting and hunting. If you want a CC permit (no open carry allowed unless police, security services, etc.), you have to file a petition with the State Court, which includes sworn statements by three witnesses that also have to go to court with you and subjected to the deputy attorney general to interview them. Pay some $1,500 hard cash. After 30 days and if the judges decides in your favor, then you pay an additional $60 green ones for the resolution papers.
With those you go to Main Police Station, and register the resolution of the court and ask for a change in category which is done on the spot. From that time on you get to concealed carry.

That is basically the procedure to get to use a firearm; reloading is another matter…. For that one you need an Explosives license from the Police and so and so which includes monthly inspections for, say, 5 pounds of smokeless powder; you may have more but have to insure the premises against accidents.

Then comes the Law, which as we write, is under revision in the appellate circuit. Have, along with some other 800’s plaintiffs asking to be declared unconstitutional under the Second Amendment as interpreted in McDonald v. Chicago and District of Columbia v. Heller.

With all those burdens one can live, but the restrictions of law and our own geographical restrictions are the real pains in the pants.
Cannot get ammo smokeless powder thru the mail services, nor USPS, Fedex or UPS, and that is a real pain.
To add insult to injury, some companies will not do business with Puerto Rico, many of them (here comes true ignorance), just do not know where is Puerto Rico or what we are. Many think that we are some place unknown, some uncharted territory like the Amazonian jungle with monkeys al around the place.
True, once I was talking t some gun shop, and the guy asked me if I can get a monkey for him. But, there are those that excel in everything, like the guy with the G and his sons; great business. And there is the Department of State that does not allow a battery manufactured in Puerto Rico be sold in Puerto Rico but can be sent to communist China; That I can’t understand, but as Ol’ blue eyes once sang— That’s life!! At least in the Tropics

Carbineman · February 9, 2016, 10:30 AM

Clark, there are nut and there are nuts, the problems start when those start to mingle with bolts; everything get tighten up.

Well, I’m far from the 90’s yet but do have to know something about guns myself. As we speak/ write, I’m in the process of writing some books. One is the History of Shooting sports in Puerto Rico and some other about the Military History of Puerto Rico.

FDR did some great thing for the island back in his time, and Teddy, well, he got the best lead from the Mausers. As a matter of fact, I have investigated the Spanish-Cuban American War of 1898. Imagine that because of the outcome of it, Puerto Rico is a territory of the US, but Congress recently forgot all about it. Perhaps we historian are still needed.

Mauser69 · February 9, 2016, 10:33 AM

Quote:

I respectfully quote: “More importantly, you will already have enough knowledge to reasonably identify the intelligent responses when two posters disagree with each other”.
Not in the business or arguing, too many years as a History professor, but certainly is good to know how to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I was not suggesting you should argue at all - never helps when dealing with small minds. But you will inevitably see posts and answers to your questions where Goober#1 says something like "You can't do that if you do not buy xyz.", and Goober#2 responds with "That's just BS! I been doin that for 40 years and I ain't never bought xyz." And it is even worse when they start throwing opposite opinions out on a real safety issue, such as component substitutions.

Advice you will get on these forums ranges from wonderful knowledgeable experience that helps a lot, to stupid and dangerous. If you cannot tell what to believe and what to laugh at, you could get hurt. I wish you the best as you lean about this great hobby; load safe!

Carbineman · February 9, 2016, 10:41 AM

Hammerhead, thank you very much!!

Roosey Roads, the biggest Navy base out of the continent. In my younger days I used to drag race in the strip; maybe I got to see you around.
10?
Man, I sure don’t envy you; as this moment, the temp., is 84, and since I live about 2 minutes from the beach, the wind is blowing nicely, which reminds me that lunch is ready

Carbineman · February 9, 2016, 10:54 AM

Catgunguy, thank you very much for your welcoming.
Shooting sports in the Island is very popular and it goes well back to the 18th century, when shooting contest where very common. We have some 30 gun clubs, ranging from 25 yards to 1,000 yards. We shoot everything in NRA, skeet, traps, IDPA, etc. Every weekend there are competitions in every gun club. No shooting is permitted on public or private land except for the clubs, so in that aspect we are kind of limited.
Weather is of no concern here since we have average temps in the 80’s, and allows us to shoot every day; as I do. Now you know why reloading is important in life!!

Carbineman · February 9, 2016, 11:02 AM

As recently as 2002. But, last year a Class Action was presented at the local courts to declare the gun law unconstitutional. The lower court decided in favor of the petitioners and now the State has appealed, which is the waiting now.

We are asking for the stopping of Police harassment in the investigations done for the exercise of a Constitutional Right, the dues to pay, which we consider very onerous and way of discouraging the exercise of the Second Amendment.

Carbineman · February 9, 2016, 11:07 AM

Thank you once again Mauser69. By the way, Mauser is my favorite rifle, especially the 1893 model.

No argues, I meant interactions; but that is sound wisdom you share with me, and I hope to learn it from all of you Pros.

Metal god · February 9, 2016, 01:56 PM

Well alright , lets start talking about what you plan to load ( calibers ) and what firearms those loads will be shot through . As well as what's available in your area . Hardware like presses and what not and components like powders , bullets etc .

All that info will be very helpful because many times what we can get in the states is not anywhere close to what's available for others around the world . If we have an idea what you plan to load and what's available . The Q&A can be much more productive .

**Unclenick** · February 9, 2016, 03:30 PM

Carbineman,

If you are interested in ballistics on a technical level, you can do worse than starting with Brian Litz's book, Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting. It comes with a disk with a good point mass ballistics solver in it, and tables of many of the most commonly available match bullets (and others) with actual measured ballistic coefficients rather than the often slightly optimistic numbers published by some makers.

If you have a more professional level of interest in exterior ballistics and have a strong math background in calculus and differential equations, the modern classic (don't you just love a good oxymoron) is Modern Exterior Ballistics, by the late Robert L. McCoy. The first edition had a number of errata that Don Miller and other students of McCoy's have corrected for the second edition now available.

If you are just looking for straight shooting on applied service rifle competition techniques, Jim Owens's material is a good place to go.

If you are interested in interior ballistics (what happens inside the gun up until the bullet exits), you can do a lot worse than to purchase the QuickLOAD software and read its manual and fiddle with the various arguments and watch their effect on the output graphs and tables. It becomes an education over time.

Prof Young · February 12, 2016, 01:26 AM

Carbineman:
What a treat to find another "academic" in the forum. I'm a retired theatre prof. Have been hunting, shooting and reloading for about the last 15 years. Lots of good advice from all above. Good shooting to you!

Live well, be safe
Prof Young

gojuice101 · February 13, 2016, 03:04 AM

Ah ha. San Juan? I was just there a couple weeks ago. Took my first cruise and stopped there. Pretty cool city. Will definitely be coming back.

Good luck.

Bucksnort1 · February 13, 2016, 09:42 AM

Yo, Carbineman, how is the humidity in summy warm Puerto Rico?

February 8, 2016, 08:32 PM	#6
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	There is a retired history professor that lives near me that is a gun nut. He does not know as much about guns as me, but he knows a lot more about history. He is 90 an still publishing. I asked him why Teddy Roosevelt was a republican and FDR was a democrat. He said the FDR wing stayed in europe for a while and got converted. ... It sounds better when he says it. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

February 9, 2016, 10:09 AM	#12
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Didn't Puerto Rico recently liberalize their gun laws quite a bit? __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

February 9, 2016, 01:56 PM	#20
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	Well alright , lets start talking about what you plan to load ( calibers ) and what firearms those loads will be shot through . As well as what's available in your area . Hardware like presses and what not and components like powders , bullets etc . All that info will be very helpful because many times what we can get in the states is not anywhere close to what's available for others around the world . If we have an idea what you plan to load and what's available . The Q&A can be much more productive . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

February 9, 2016, 03:30 PM	#21
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Carbineman, If you are interested in ballistics on a technical level, you can do worse than starting with Brian Litz's book, Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting. It comes with a disk with a good point mass ballistics solver in it, and tables of many of the most commonly available match bullets (and others) with actual measured ballistic coefficients rather than the often slightly optimistic numbers published by some makers. If you have a more professional level of interest in exterior ballistics and have a strong math background in calculus and differential equations, the modern classic (don't you just love a good oxymoron) is Modern Exterior Ballistics, by the late Robert L. McCoy. The first edition had a number of errata that Don Miller and other students of McCoy's have corrected for the second edition now available. If you are just looking for straight shooting on applied service rifle competition techniques, Jim Owens's material is a good place to go. If you are interested in interior ballistics (what happens inside the gun up until the bullet exits), you can do a lot worse than to purchase the QuickLOAD software and read its manual and fiddle with the various arguments and watch their effect on the output graphs and tables. It becomes an education over time. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

February 12, 2016, 01:26 AM	#22
Prof Young Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2007 Location: Illinois - down state Posts: 2,404	Welcome, welcome, welcome . . . Carbineman: What a treat to find another "academic" in the forum. I'm a retired theatre prof. Have been hunting, shooting and reloading for about the last 15 years. Lots of good advice from all above. Good shooting to you! Live well, be safe Prof Young

February 8, 2016, 10:21 AM	#1
Carbineman Junior Member Join Date: February 7, 2016 Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico Posts: 13	Hi to all from sunny Puerto Rico Hi, to all, wishing a very pleasant and healthy new year. Retired History professor, enjoying free time. May say that I’m new to reloading. Looking to learn the science behind it; say, the nuts and bolts. I recently started in competition shooting, reason for my wanting to know about ballistics, trajectory, etc. Putting reloading to service besides economy and lack of ammo. Military rifle collector, so many of them I shoot but the scarcity of ammo here in the Island pushed me into reloading. Your help and wisdom is much appreciated as I am here to learn from the Pros, you all. My respect to the community. Yours must humble servant, Carbineman

February 8, 2016, 10:48 AM	#2
Mauser69 Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2014 Location: New Mexico Posts: 204	Your first step should be to by Modern Reloading by Richard Lee and read it in depth. You will get more understanding about reloading in general and specifics about cartridge pressures and how they affect the results than any other source I know. After you have carefully digested what he writes, you will already know more than about half the people who will respond to you on these forums, and all of your questions will be meaningful. More importantly, you will already have enough knowledge to reasonably identify the intelligent responses when two posters disagree with each other. Even if you never actually start reloading, this book will give you a much better understanding of what is going on in your guns. Do disregard at first all the sales pitches in the book for Lee equipment - it is not that any of what he says about his own equipment is wrong, it is just not important in the initial learning phase. It is his book, and he has a right to focus on his equipment and not the competitors. All companies make some very good equipment for reloading, and probably some you do not want to own. As your knowledge builds, you will be able to begin differentiating between the two. Personally I do like a lot of Lee stuff (not all), but I tend to also buy other brands to go with it. I do not recommend his book because I like his equipment, but specifically because he has better information for someone looking to learn. __________________ NRA Family Life members, TSRA Life member, USAF vet and American Legion member.

February 8, 2016, 05:52 PM	#5
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Forgive my ignorance, but can you enlighten us to what the gun atmosphere is there in PR? I just assumed everything gun related was highly restricted or banned.

February 9, 2016, 03:14 AM	#7
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	Welcome Carbineman. I was stationed at Roosevelt Roads & lived in Fajardo in 1979 & '80. Loved every minute of it. Warm memories (it's 10º here).

February 9, 2016, 07:19 AM	#8
catgunguy Member Join Date: March 11, 2014 Posts: 37	Welcome Carbineman. Will be interesting to here about your shooting in a different world, than here in the cold.

February 9, 2016, 09:10 AM	#9
Carbineman Junior Member Join Date: February 7, 2016 Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico Posts: 13	Mauser69; Thanks for your response and sound advice, I appreciate it. I just ordered Richard’s book. I respectfully quote: “More importantly, you will already have enough knowledge to reasonably identify the intelligent responses when two posters disagree with each other”. Not in the business or arguing, too many years as a History professor, but certainly is good to know how to separate the wheat from the chaff. 

February 9, 2016, 09:16 AM	#10
Carbineman Junior Member Join Date: February 7, 2016 Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico Posts: 13	Metal god, thank you for your attention and certainly I agree with you; “right off the bat”. No, there was no question, yet, I may say. Just introducing myself to the community. Question will be in shortly…

February 9, 2016, 09:22 AM	#11
Carbineman Junior Member Join Date: February 7, 2016 Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico Posts: 13	F. Guffey; hi. May say that have done some reloading, standard numbers because of need for all the old irons. But guess I’m ready for the real reloading science, or maybe it’s a shot to Madame Luck at some competitions. I’ll let you know how it goes; that is, if I count your knowledge?

February 9, 2016, 10:17 AM	#13
Carbineman Junior Member Join Date: February 7, 2016 Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico Posts: 13	Chris in va, No ignorance in the asking, ignorance prevails without questions. As Benjamin Franklin once said— the doorstep to the temple of wisdom is knowledge of our own ignorance. I can say that we [not] enjoy one of the strictest gun law, besides California or New York. Anyone that complies with ATF’s basic rules can have a gun license. Yes, a license, and that is not the problem, which is, the great expenses one has to bear. We have a Gun License with three categories: Sport target shooting, hunting and concealed carry. One has to file a petition with the State police, pay a fee of $150, three sworn statements from person that have known you for at least three years or so; family not included. Non alimony debtor, no taxes due, (that proves you are no criminal), and a good standing certificate issued by the Police. If you comply with ATF’s rules, in 120 day you have your license, but only for target shooting and hunting. If you want a CC permit (no open carry allowed unless police, security services, etc.), you have to file a petition with the State Court, which includes sworn statements by three witnesses that also have to go to court with you and subjected to the deputy attorney general to interview them. Pay some $1,500 hard cash. After 30 days and if the judges decides in your favor, then you pay an additional $60 green ones for the resolution papers. With those you go to Main Police Station, and register the resolution of the court and ask for a change in category which is done on the spot. From that time on you get to concealed carry. That is basically the procedure to get to use a firearm; reloading is another matter…. For that one you need an Explosives license from the Police and so and so which includes monthly inspections for, say, 5 pounds of smokeless powder; you may have more but have to insure the premises against accidents. Then comes the Law, which as we write, is under revision in the appellate circuit. Have, along with some other 800’s plaintiffs asking to be declared unconstitutional under the Second Amendment as interpreted in McDonald v. Chicago and District of Columbia v. Heller. With all those burdens one can live, but the restrictions of law and our own geographical restrictions are the real pains in the pants. Cannot get ammo smokeless powder thru the mail services, nor USPS, Fedex or UPS, and that is a real pain. To add insult to injury, some companies will not do business with Puerto Rico, many of them (here comes true ignorance), just do not know where is Puerto Rico or what we are. Many think that we are some place unknown, some uncharted territory like the Amazonian jungle with monkeys al around the place. True, once I was talking t some gun shop, and the guy asked me if I can get a monkey for him. But, there are those that excel in everything, like the guy with the G and his sons; great business. And there is the Department of State that does not allow a battery manufactured in Puerto Rico be sold in Puerto Rico but can be sent to communist China; That I can’t understand, but as Ol’ blue eyes once sang— That’s life!! At least in the Tropics

February 9, 2016, 10:30 AM	#14
Carbineman Junior Member Join Date: February 7, 2016 Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico Posts: 13	Clark, there are nut and there are nuts, the problems start when those start to mingle with bolts; everything get tighten up. Well, I’m far from the 90’s yet but do have to know something about guns myself. As we speak/ write, I’m in the process of writing some books. One is the History of Shooting sports in Puerto Rico and some other about the Military History of Puerto Rico. FDR did some great thing for the island back in his time, and Teddy, well, he got the best lead from the Mausers. As a matter of fact, I have investigated the Spanish-Cuban American War of 1898. Imagine that because of the outcome of it, Puerto Rico is a territory of the US, but Congress recently forgot all about it. Perhaps we historian are still needed.

February 9, 2016, 10:41 AM	#16
Carbineman Junior Member Join Date: February 7, 2016 Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico Posts: 13	Hammerhead, thank you very much!! Roosey Roads, the biggest Navy base out of the continent. In my younger days I used to drag race in the strip; maybe I got to see you around. 10? Man, I sure don’t envy you; as this moment, the temp., is 84, and since I live about 2 minutes from the beach, the wind is blowing nicely, which reminds me that lunch is ready

February 9, 2016, 10:54 AM	#17
Carbineman Junior Member Join Date: February 7, 2016 Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico Posts: 13	Catgunguy, thank you very much for your welcoming. Shooting sports in the Island is very popular and it goes well back to the 18th century, when shooting contest where very common. We have some 30 gun clubs, ranging from 25 yards to 1,000 yards. We shoot everything in NRA, skeet, traps, IDPA, etc. Every weekend there are competitions in every gun club. No shooting is permitted on public or private land except for the clubs, so in that aspect we are kind of limited. Weather is of no concern here since we have average temps in the 80’s, and allows us to shoot every day; as I do. Now you know why reloading is important in life!!

February 9, 2016, 11:02 AM	#18
Carbineman Junior Member Join Date: February 7, 2016 Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico Posts: 13	As recently as 2002. But, last year a Class Action was presented at the local courts to declare the gun law unconstitutional. The lower court decided in favor of the petitioners and now the State has appealed, which is the waiting now. We are asking for the stopping of Police harassment in the investigations done for the exercise of a Constitutional Right, the dues to pay, which we consider very onerous and way of discouraging the exercise of the Second Amendment.

February 9, 2016, 11:07 AM	#19
Carbineman Junior Member Join Date: February 7, 2016 Location: San Juan, Puerto Rico Posts: 13	Thank you once again Mauser69. By the way, Mauser is my favorite rifle, especially the 1893 model. No argues, I meant interactions; but that is sound wisdom you share with me, and I hope to learn it from all of you Pros.

February 13, 2016, 03:04 AM	#23
gojuice101 Member Join Date: January 2, 2015 Location: Spotsylvania, VA Posts: 31	Ah ha. San Juan? I was just there a couple weeks ago. Took my first cruise and stopped there. Pretty cool city. Will definitely be coming back. Good luck.

February 13, 2016, 09:42 AM	#24
Bucksnort1 Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2013 Location: Littleton, Colorado Posts: 1,121	Yo, Carbineman, how is the humidity in summy warm Puerto Rico?