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March 24, 2024, 04:22 AM | #1 |
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Taurus Judge 2.5 or 3 inch .410?
Bouncing around the idea of getting a Judge with the 6.5 inch barrel length and at that size the option of a cylinder chambered for 3 inch .410 is available; Taurus calls these the Judge Magnum.
On one hand the ability is nice, but the little extra shot is going to be spun all the same and the 000 Buck loads just mean I get one extra pellet and the Judge Magnum would weigh either 8 or 16 ounces more (confusing data on their website). The pro and con to that is the Judge Magnum is less fun to carry vs a standard Judge, but recoil is tamed and more enjoyable to shoot. However, I'm not really looking at these long barrel Judges to shoot .410 from them, I'm more interested in them to shoot .45 Colt. That being the case, which would you guys choose? There is also a difference in price, the Judge Magnum is about $50 more than the standard Judge.
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March 24, 2024, 02:13 PM | #2 |
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I would choose a different gun-one that is a dedicated .45 Colt caliber.
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March 24, 2024, 03:29 PM | #3 |
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Same here. I have a Contender .45Colt/.410, and wound up getting a .45 Colt barrel for it, because it wouldn't shoot .45 Colt as well as my revolvers.
The big advantage to a .45Colt/.410 is using BIRD SHOT in the .410 for snakes and such. .410 slugs are no slouch, but fired from a .45 caliber barrel, you best be close, and lucky. .410 buckshot is, in my opinion, not superior to .45 Colt slugs in any way. It is marketing hype based on the general belief that buckshot is effective, and that belief comes from the 12ga. Not the .410. 12ga buckshot works pretty well, but that is due to the mass of the shot charge, something the .410 doesn't have. 2.5" .410 will destroy snakes and rats really well, the 3 inch doesn't really get you anything but increased gun weight, and ammo cost. It does have a slight advantage for birds, but for pests and varmints, at pistol ranges, not so much, and for me, not worth the effort.
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March 24, 2024, 03:36 PM | #4 |
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I have a Judge Magnum with a 3" barrel. I like it, but it is good for nothing. Accuracy with 45 Colt is poor. .410 shot is worthless - it might down a robin at 10 yards if you're lucky. It will probably scare off a snake at close range, but that's about it.
It's different and fun to shoot. That's it. If you want a 45, get a 45. Do I regret buying it? No. If I had to do it over, would I buy it again? Probably not. If you are set on getting one, the shorter cylinder might, in theory, provide ever so slightly better accuracy with 45 Colt ammo. |
March 24, 2024, 04:43 PM | #5 | |
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It's easy to say get a different gun, but not easy to spend more than double for it.
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March 25, 2024, 08:26 PM | #6 | |
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For a novelty item, it's great. For any other purpose (other than snakes, maybe), it's pretty terrible. YMMV. |
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March 25, 2024, 08:44 PM | #7 |
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Personally, I went with the 3" Magnum Cylinder, simply because .410 ammo isn't always abundantly available, and 3" Shells seem more available than 2.5" Shells.
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March 25, 2024, 11:03 PM | #8 | |
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March 26, 2024, 08:50 AM | #9 | |
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Longer barrel will rarely make a gun more accurate. Yes, it may be easier for you to shoot accurately, but an extra 3" of barrel length will not cut your group size in half. If anything, the shorter cylinder might, in theory, provide better accuracy than the longer cylinder. Since you already own one, you know the strengths and weaknesses. For 45 Colt use, I would suggest the shorter cylinder. |
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March 26, 2024, 02:48 PM | #10 |
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Don’t know about the Taurus but my son’s Governor (3” barrel? ) shoots Hornady 185 Flex Tips better than any other 45 Colt or ACP load we have tried. Accuracy at 15yds is very acceptable,
2-1/2 410’s (#6, #4, whatever) will blow a rattlers head off. |
March 27, 2024, 05:20 AM | #11 |
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Was that 185gr load in .45 Colt or ACP?
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March 27, 2024, 07:09 AM | #12 |
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45 Colt, didn’t expect such a short bullet to shoot this well.
Much better than 45 ACP 230gr Ball. |
March 27, 2024, 07:38 AM | #13 |
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Oddly enough, when shooting the short barrel Judge, I found that .45 Schofield was more accurate and consistent and I'm figuring that's because the shorter case burns the powder charge better than .45 Colt does.
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March 27, 2024, 12:56 PM | #14 | |
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Always consider the possibility that your results might just be a quirk of your gun and the ammo used and might not apply to anyone else. I have read people saying they got "good" or at least acceptable accuracy shooting .45 Colt from their combo pistols, despite the long bullet jump. That was not the case for me, but its not impossible.
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March 28, 2024, 07:59 PM | #15 | |
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March 29, 2024, 04:50 AM | #16 | |
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Furthermore, the question I'm asking isn't about whether to get the Judge or not, it's between the two different cylinder lengths which is the better one to get. I've yet to see anyone recommend or suggest the 3 inch cylinder.
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March 29, 2024, 02:25 PM | #17 |
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Cylinder length shouldn't make any meaningful difference in accuracy because the cylinders on the Taurus Judge are choked down past the length of .45 Colt cartridge cases so that .454 Cassul or .460 S&W won't chamber.
The reason why the Judge is less accurate than say a Single Action Army clone is due to the shallow rifling in the barrel. My brother owns a 2.5" chambered Judge and I own a 3" chambered Judge and I've noticed no appreciable difference in accuracy between the two. They both seem to group about the same with .45 Colt. One thing that I will say is that when it comes to .410 Shotshells is that ordinary .410 Shotgun ammo is going to pattern terribly regardless of what cylinder length you shoot it from because it was designed to be fired from shotguns with 18"+ barrels. So if you plan on using .410 Shotshells for any purpose in which accuracy is required, then buy premium ammunition that was designed for handguns. .410 Handgun ammo performances dramatically better in every respect becase it was actually designed for short barrels and thus uses faster burning powder and shotcups for improved accuracy as well as terminal performance. Federal Premium .410 Handgun is my personal favorite because it uses a variation of the Federal Flitecontrol wad to help keep the shot pattern tight.
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March 29, 2024, 03:29 PM | #18 | |
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And the fact that normal .410 ammo isn't just made to perform best in 18" or longer barrel lengths, but also its made for shotgun barrels. Smooth bore, NO Rifling. Federal law requires handguns to be rifled, and since the .410 wad does form a gas seal the rifling will spin it, to some degree. There's no getting around that with conventional ammo.
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March 29, 2024, 04:44 PM | #19 |
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Short revolver barrels work best for shot or shotgun shells. Less travel down the rifling limits the amount of spin imparted on the shot. I have had very good results from 2" or so 38 spl revolvers over the years, max 10' or so.
My son's Governor also does well with 2-1/2" .410's. |
March 30, 2024, 12:45 AM | #20 | |
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That reduction in diameter in the chambers is only going from .482 down to .472, not to .457, which while larger than what's best for a .452 bullet is still closer than .472 is. I've been thinking about sending Taurus an email to ask them about offering a Judge with a spare .45 Colt only cylinder that has the proper chambers and throat diameters. I won't fix the rifling issues, but it can improve velocities as no gas will be blowing by the bullet like it currently does in all Judges and that will improve consistency with the powder burn and bullet alignment to the bore which should improve accuracy. Taurus seems to be willing to make every iteration of the Judge they can, so I don't see why they wouldn't throw in a spare cylinder for an extra $100.
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March 30, 2024, 12:56 AM | #21 | |
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I've pretty much gone straight to using .45 Schofield for all standard pressure loadings and save the Colt brass for higher power loadings for the Redhawk or for round ball loads.
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March 30, 2024, 12:05 PM | #22 |
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One of the few joys of the modern era is being able to get brass and often ammo for rounds that had been long out of production but are being made again now (or were before the panicdemic...).
I've often read the Schoefield is an accurate cartridge, but never having had a gun that needed it, I never tried it. In that regard, its like the .44 Special, for me. I have guns that can use it, but none that need it, so I never bothered to get any (or much, I think I have a partial box of .44Spl somewhere, that someone gave me, ....)
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March 30, 2024, 09:31 PM | #23 |
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The .45 Colt is much closer to .44 Magnum in terms of case capacity, yet is far lower in pressure meaning less powder has to be used. This means there's more air inside the case and that leads to inconsistent ignition. When we're sticking to standard pressures for the .45, the Schofield has the advantage as it has less air in the case than .45 Colt will and that I believe improves efficiency.
This dynamic is only present in .45 Colt because it is effectively a Magnum caliber in terms of case capacity, but is loaded to pressures that are even lower than that of the Special calibers.
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March 31, 2024, 02:02 AM | #24 | |
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The original loading for the .45 Colt was 40gr of black powder, in the original balloon head cases. Zero airspace. Modern solid head cases won't hold quite that much, somewhere around 38gr, I think.
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March 31, 2024, 11:48 AM | #25 |
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Has anyone ever tried loading a 45 Colt bullet in the end of a 410 case, with maybe wads or filler between the powder charge and the bullet. That would reduce the jump between the case and the forcing cone.
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