How much crimp is to much

Dizzy · November 21, 2009, 02:48 PM

I was wondering how much crimp is too much for a 9mm cartridge? Also I have a question about my loads I want to make sure they are safe.

115gr JHP Montana Gold
OAL 1.075
5.4 gr. Winchester WSF
Wolf Small Pistol Primers

Dizzy · November 21, 2009, 02:50 PM

I know I am being a pain too sorry guys I just want to make sure I am safe. I worry about blowing up my Glock 19

IllinoisCoyoteHunter · November 21, 2009, 02:51 PM

Just enough crimp to take the flare out of the case you put on it to acccept the bullet. Check your manuals to see if the load is safe.

DBAR · November 21, 2009, 03:00 PM

.376~.378

Some say .375, or .376, some say .375 leaves a crimp mark in the projectile. Different cases have different thickness, so there is actually a formula for getting the exact crimp diameter, but from what I've read .376~.378 should be ok.

I'm just starting to collect data on loading 9mm. In fact I haven't even gotten the dies yet, but I have been doing a lot of reading.

I've been loading .45acp for some years, and it starting to look just as easy. Not much to it.

You really should do some research, and pick up a loading manual or 2.

rwilson452 · November 21, 2009, 03:03 PM

I wouldn't worry too much about too much crimp making the round unsafe. It might affect accuracy but not safety. I don't think you could crimp a case so severely that it wouldn't expand and release the bullet. Although I don't load for 9mm. I have had some rounds in 45ACP that really put a dent in a lead bullet, the only effect I noted was less smoke.

Sarge · November 21, 2009, 03:04 PM

Enough crimp to insure that the bullet doesn't set back after repeated cycles through the magazine, or in the case of a revolver, that the bullet doesn't 'pull' from inertial forces when other chambers in the cylinder are fired.

'Too much crimp' by my standards would be substantially beyond that described above, or when the level of crimp applied unnecessarily deforms the case mouth (shortening its service life) or the bullet itself (potentially degrading accuracy).

**Bud Helms** · November 21, 2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

I don't think you could crimp a case so severely that it wouldn't expand and release the bullet.

Not likely.

I like Sarge's answer, especially the part about "unnecessarily deforms the case". Too much taper crimp will affect chambering. A taper crimp makes for great neck tension and no case deformation.

DBAR · November 21, 2009, 05:11 PM

Too much crimp can cause leading with lead bullets, but it isn't going to make your load dangerous.

Claude Clay · November 21, 2009, 05:17 PM

can you please explain about crimp & leading?

i am curious as i just fired a 100 or so that i made on a friends L&L and noticed some bbl leading.
1000's through my SDB-- no leading. same bullet & powder also.

peculiar, yes?

petemo · November 21, 2009, 07:25 PM

Keep in mind that 45's 9mils headspace on the case itself. In other words if it is crimped too much it may seat correctly when the slide slams shut. I bell my cases just a little and then run them just slightly into the full length die to remove the bell. This works well with cast bullets. The case does not " shave lead " from the bullet as easily.
I hope this helps
petemo

gunney 67 · November 21, 2009, 07:50 PM

You indicated that you are using JHP bullets. It is advisable to NOT use cast or swaged lead bullets in any Glock with the original factory barrel, as this can result in rare instances of the gun eventually firing slightly out-of-battery from lead build-up at the chamber mouth. This is a very dangerous condition, and has resulted in Glocks blowing up, as has been discussed on these forums in the past. I use only JHPs and moderate loads in my model 19 for range practice, reserving factory ammo for carry. Glock says that the use of reloads will void the warranty FYI. Increase the taper crimp about 1/4 turn at a time until the proper tension is achieved. I test by pushing the cartridge bullet-down on my bench with my thumb to make sure the bullet doesn't move into the case. 1/10th inch of set-back in the 9mm can cause dangerous pressure spikes.

DBAR · November 21, 2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

can you please explain about crimp & leading?

i am curious as i just fired a 100 or so that i made on a friends L&L and noticed some bbl leading.
1000's through my SDB-- no leading. same bullet & powder also.

peculiar, yes?

Claude Clay,

I sent you an instant message since this is off the topic of this thread.

Alleykat · November 21, 2009, 11:51 PM

Taper crimp has absolutely no effect on setback. Just crimp those 9mms enough to remove the bell. The only crimp that'll mitigate setback is roll-crimping into a cannelure. You don't want to do that with a 9mm...besides, it isn't necessary. Overcrimping with a taper crimp can adversely affect neck tension.

DBAR · November 22, 2009, 12:28 AM

Alleykat is right about the neck tension. If you reload rifle rounds like the .223, you'll learn real quick like I did. Proper neck tension is what I've finally learned holds the projectile in. You want enough to hold the bullet, but not enough to deform it.

Dizzy · November 23, 2009, 06:45 PM

I appreciate all of your help. Gunny I haven't had any problems with my glock with JHP I have been shooting JHP with my glock for 2 years now. But, I do extensively clean it though. I will take precaution with that about that and also maybe reconsider using JHP for future in my glock.

Thanks All!

jepp2 · November 23, 2009, 07:55 PM

As others have stated, taper crimp has no impact on setback. Neck tension does. Have you checked your loads for setback?

Using the Manufacturer's website data, 5.2 to 5.7 grains for WSF with your load. The difference is that the OAL of the website (1.169") is considerably longer than yours, and minor differences in length can SIGNIFICANTLY change the peak pressure. Your factory Glock barrel tends to have a generous chamber which will reduce the pressure somewhat. You should be good to go, but check for any signs of overpressure on the first rounds your fire. And checking for setback on rounds that have been chambered by the firing action of your pistol would be a good idea. You are way shorter in length.

If I was using your load, I would have used a much longer OAL. Normally I will default to 1.142" OAL for my starting load. Functions fine in all my pistols and gives me some extra length, just in case....

Dizzy · November 23, 2009, 08:29 PM

Jepp,

Does 1.142 function ok with a glock do you know. I want to make sure. I was concerned with the OAL I just didn't want to load at 1.169 because that bearly seats the bullet at all.

November 21, 2009, 02:48 PM	#1
Dizzy Member Join Date: October 20, 2009 Location: Philly area Posts: 43	How much crimp is to much I was wondering how much crimp is too much for a 9mm cartridge? Also I have a question about my loads I want to make sure they are safe. 115gr JHP Montana Gold OAL 1.075 5.4 gr. Winchester WSF Wolf Small Pistol Primers

November 21, 2009, 02:51 PM	#3
IllinoisCoyoteHunter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2008 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 1,527	Just enough crimp to take the flare out of the case you put on it to acccept the bullet. Check your manuals to see if the load is safe. __________________ ~~IllinoisCoyoteHunter~~ ~NRA LIFE MEMBER~ ~NRA CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR~

November 21, 2009, 03:00 PM	#4
DBAR Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 941	.376~.378 Some say .375, or .376, some say .375 leaves a crimp mark in the projectile. Different cases have different thickness, so there is actually a formula for getting the exact crimp diameter, but from what I've read .376~.378 should be ok. I'm just starting to collect data on loading 9mm. In fact I haven't even gotten the dies yet, but I have been doing a lot of reading. I've been loading .45acp for some years, and it starting to look just as easy. Not much to it. You really should do some research, and pick up a loading manual or 2. Last edited by DBAR; November 21, 2009 at 03:08 PM.

November 21, 2009, 03:03 PM	#5
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	I wouldn't worry too much about too much crimp making the round unsafe. It might affect accuracy but not safety. I don't think you could crimp a case so severely that it wouldn't expand and release the bullet. Although I don't load for 9mm. I have had some rounds in 45ACP that really put a dent in a lead bullet, the only effect I noted was less smoke. __________________ USNRET '61-'81

November 21, 2009, 03:04 PM	#6
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	Enough crimp to insure that the bullet doesn't set back after repeated cycles through the magazine, or in the case of a revolver, that the bullet doesn't 'pull' from inertial forces when other chambers in the cylinder are fired. 'Too much crimp' by my standards would be substantially beyond that described above, or when the level of crimp applied unnecessarily deforms the case mouth (shortening its service life) or the bullet itself (potentially degrading accuracy). __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

November 21, 2009, 02:50 PM	#2
Dizzy Member Join Date: October 20, 2009 Location: Philly area Posts: 43	I know I am being a pain too sorry guys I just want to make sure I am safe. I worry about blowing up my Glock 19

November 21, 2009, 05:11 PM	#8
DBAR Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 941	Too much crimp can cause leading with lead bullets, but it isn't going to make your load dangerous.

November 21, 2009, 05:17 PM	#9
Claude Clay Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2007 Location: CT Posts: 325	DBAR can you please explain about crimp & leading? i am curious as i just fired a 100 or so that i made on a friends L&L and noticed some bbl leading. 1000's through my SDB-- no leading. same bullet & powder also. peculiar, yes? __________________ NRA Instructor -- NRA Basic Pistol & Re-Loading Make a fire for a man and you warm him for the night Light him on fire and you warm him for the rest of his life

November 21, 2009, 07:25 PM	#10
petemo Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: Georgia Posts: 49	Head space on the case Keep in mind that 45's 9mils headspace on the case itself. In other words if it is crimped too much it may seat correctly when the slide slams shut. I bell my cases just a little and then run them just slightly into the full length die to remove the bell. This works well with cast bullets. The case does not " shave lead " from the bullet as easily. I hope this helps petemo

November 21, 2009, 07:50 PM	#11
gunney 67 Member Join Date: July 21, 2008 Location: boise idaho Posts: 77	You indicated that you are using JHP bullets. It is advisable to NOT use cast or swaged lead bullets in any Glock with the original factory barrel, as this can result in rare instances of the gun eventually firing slightly out-of-battery from lead build-up at the chamber mouth. This is a very dangerous condition, and has resulted in Glocks blowing up, as has been discussed on these forums in the past. I use only JHPs and moderate loads in my model 19 for range practice, reserving factory ammo for carry. Glock says that the use of reloads will void the warranty FYI. Increase the taper crimp about 1/4 turn at a time until the proper tension is achieved. I test by pushing the cartridge bullet-down on my bench with my thumb to make sure the bullet doesn't move into the case. 1/10th inch of set-back in the 9mm can cause dangerous pressure spikes.

November 21, 2009, 11:51 PM	#13
Alleykat Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2007 Posts: 3,668	Taper crimp has absolutely no effect on setback. Just crimp those 9mms enough to remove the bell. The only crimp that'll mitigate setback is roll-crimping into a cannelure. You don't want to do that with a 9mm...besides, it isn't necessary. Overcrimping with a taper crimp can adversely affect neck tension.

November 22, 2009, 12:28 AM	#14
DBAR Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 941	Alleykat is right about the neck tension. If you reload rifle rounds like the .223, you'll learn real quick like I did. Proper neck tension is what I've finally learned holds the projectile in. You want enough to hold the bullet, but not enough to deform it.

November 23, 2009, 06:45 PM	#15
Dizzy Member Join Date: October 20, 2009 Location: Philly area Posts: 43	I appreciate all of your help. Gunny I haven't had any problems with my glock with JHP I have been shooting JHP with my glock for 2 years now. But, I do extensively clean it though. I will take precaution with that about that and also maybe reconsider using JHP for future in my glock. Thanks All!

November 23, 2009, 07:55 PM	#16
jepp2 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 1,476	As others have stated, taper crimp has no impact on setback. Neck tension does. Have you checked your loads for setback? Using the Manufacturer's website data, 5.2 to 5.7 grains for WSF with your load. The difference is that the OAL of the website (1.169") is considerably longer than yours, and minor differences in length can SIGNIFICANTLY change the peak pressure. Your factory Glock barrel tends to have a generous chamber which will reduce the pressure somewhat. You should be good to go, but check for any signs of overpressure on the first rounds your fire. And checking for setback on rounds that have been chambered by the firing action of your pistol would be a good idea. You are way shorter in length. If I was using your load, I would have used a much longer OAL. Normally I will default to 1.142" OAL for my starting load. Functions fine in all my pistols and gives me some extra length, just in case....

November 23, 2009, 08:29 PM	#17
Dizzy Member Join Date: October 20, 2009 Location: Philly area Posts: 43	Jepp, Does 1.142 function ok with a glock do you know. I want to make sure. I was concerned with the OAL I just didn't want to load at 1.169 because that bearly seats the bullet at all.