357mag vs. bear

[jaymag]

If thinking of buying one for outdoor protection.My nine is riskey for bear.But always loved the penatration specs on the 357MAG.Plus I can play with it cheap!I liked my S&W model 36 38SPC. thats why I like the general caliber.

[skeeter1]

I knew someone who served in the Viet Nam war, and afterwards spent a stint in Alaska. He carried a 4" Smith in .357 Magnum when they went camping on R&R. It wouldn't be my first choice (I'd rather have a rifle), but is beats trying to match claws with a bear. He never had to use it, but I'm sure he slept better at night knowing it was there. I've gone backpacking in Kentucky, and my little Smith 60 (.38 Spl) was never far away.

[DR9983M4]

.357 isn't a whole lot cheaper than a .44 mag and I firmly believe its too small to be effective against a large predator like a bear. If you aren't limp wristed a .44 Mag is a far better choice to protect against bear. I never found the recoil bad with a .44 mag, the large frames always reduce felt recoil. You can also buy/load .44 specials in the .44 Mag. The other option, although pricier is a .500 S&W mag, a guaranteed bear stopper. I've never fired one, but everyone who has says its felt recoil is only a bit more than a .44 mag, mostly cause it has a muzzle brake.

[juliet charley]

The other option, although pricier is a .500 S&W mag, a guaranteed bear stopper.

I'd never describe any handgun as "a guaranteed bear stopper."

[1911austin]

My nine is riskey for bear.But always loved the penatration specs on the 357MAG.

I dunno. With the nine he might think you were joking and laugh it off. The .357 will really piss him off.

[RsqVet]

Yeah and with the weight of the smith 500 you can club the bear with it as well.

Seriously though, the 500 seems like a nice enough gun for those who want to hunt with it or whatever but even teh 4incher is a lot to carry afield.

At one point 357 was considered a more serious round than it is today with many large animals being taken with it, so take everything you hear with a grain of salt. That being said most will tell you it's minimal to a no-go so far as serious bear medicine and I'm very inclined to agree with that. If you are looking for a gun that will do a good job on many things and is not complealty out of the ball park if by some rare rare chance you run across a bear, then I'd be ok with a 357, otherwise I'd more up in caliber.

My personal choice would either be a 44 mag with the Garett hamer head cartrige or a 454 ruger Alaskan that can shoot 45 colt, 45 colt +P or full on 454, basicly carry as much cartrige as you can shoot with the gun. It's compact and well made, but still hard to get.

[Larry C.]

Howdy,

Even with a 6-inch barrel and the hottest .357 load available, it wouldn't inspire my confidance vs. a Bear weighing over say, 300 lbs. I suggest looking for a .44 Magnum and using magnum rounds. Take the advice of a guy who's never even been hunting!

Larry C.

[Mosin44az]

I remember an article Chuck Taylor wrote a number of years ago about hunting black bear with a handgun. He considered .357 magnum to be marginal/sub-marginal as a choice. I remember a quote: " A bear on the ground is a dangerous animal," and a .357 would quite possibly not be enough to protect you. Taylor's first choice was .44 magnum.

[Surefire_U2]

I'd go with a phaser set on disinegrate...

Seriously, no handgun cartridge is that effective on LARGE bear. You need to pick the best combination of power, controlability, and portability that works best for you. Or better yet, just use a long-barreled gun (rifle or shot gun).

[22-rimfire]

Frankly I would be comfortable carrying a 357 revolver for predator defense in the Eastern US woods. I might carry my 41mag; it just depends on the situation and where you are going to be. Known area with lots of bears? Overnight camping vs day hikes? Most bears run when humans are sighted.

[BigO01]

I remember seeing a photo spread in a gun magazine years ago . A couple of game wardens were relocating a Grizzly in Montana "I think" , cage with the bear was in the back of a pickup Warden standing on top of the cage opening the door Bear went out , cage fell over out of the truck Warden landed on the bear and rolled to his feet came up shooting his .357 fired all 6 shots and killed the bear .

I can't remember how big a bear it was but it was sure bigger than the Warden was .

Maybe not the first choice for bear defense but if you don't spend alot of time in bear woods I wouldn't buy a 44 just for the rare hiking trip .

[Mastrogiacomo]

I don't think I'd be comfortable with anything else but a shotgun. Anything less is a risk IMO.

[BLKLABMAN]

We hunt black bears with 686(P) .357mag's using 180gr LFN's. Black Bears are actually very easy to kill. Easier than many hog's. The black bears I have came across over the years while hiking, have all ran like dogs. The one that did charge a friend and his family, his .357mag brought it down quickly.
I have no problem with using the .357mag for protection in the Eastern United States, and do not see the need in going to a bigger caliber.
I have no experience with hunting or shooting big bears, but for them a handgun is not what I would depend on. I have been on Elk hunts in big bear country were I was handgun hunting with my 629 with 310gr Hammerheads. The guides all carried rifles.
If I thought I might come across a big bear by myself I would rely on a shotgun with slugs. Not a handgun, unless it was strictly for backup.

[44 AMP]

Black bear, ok, with good placement. Use a hard cast 158 SWC on top of as much 2400 as the gun will take. 6in (or longer barrel) is better. Go for the heart/lungs or spine. Don't shoot for the head, I have seen .30-30 bullet bounce off a black bear's skull. (thick bone + curved surface).

A bigger caliber will up your "edge", but the .357 will manage ok if you do your part. I say a 158gr, cause some guns will not handle the 180s, and a long barrel to get all the power you can. Don't expect a snubbie to give you magnum speed.

That said, a 12ga with slugs is better than ANY handgun. Just not as easy to pack around.

[Doug.38PR]

The original .357 Magnum by Smith & Wesson from 1935 was rejected by the majority of law enforcement agencys. It thrived and It found a strong market with BIG game hunters who liked using it rather than a rifle at times in the wilds of Africa.

It had been known to take down animals in North America like Moose and Walrus. A story of a Walrus hunt told in a letter thanking S&W by a Catholic priest in which a hunting parties of Eskimoes with a .357 Magnum made their hunt that year allowing them to easily bag the largest walrus of the season estimated to be, if I remember right, around 2000 pounds. It was taken down by three shots from a .357 magnum.

As others have noted, there are better rounds for hunting purposes such as the .44 magnum but the .357 magnum will serve you just fine with the right ammunition.

[Montana250]

Is there a big bear problem in Springfield, Mass??

[cje1980]

.357 isn't a whole lot cheaper than a .44 mag and I firmly believe its too small to be effective against a large predator like a bear.

While the firearms itself might not be much cheaper. Ammo certainly is going to one heck of a lot cheaper. You can get some pretty hot loads or load some pretty hot loads in 357 that will easily do in a Black Bear. Corbon's 200gr. HC load will penetrate as well or nearly as well as most 44Mag loads on the market. Use the right ammo for the job and you will be fine. Keep in mind folks we are talking Black Bears here not Alaskan Brown Bears, unless the original poster is planning on making a trip to Alaska. In that case I don't think the 357Mag would be a wise choice. I would say 44Mag as a minimum and would recommend a long gun as a primary.

The other option, although pricier is a .500 S&W mag, a guaranteed bear stopper.

If you wouldn't use such a gun for self defense from humans, why would you use it for bear defense? You still have to be able to hit what you aim at when being attacked by a bear. These monster magnums can hinder the shooter's ability to get quick follow up shots on a charging bear. Its not like when a bear attacks you all of a sudden you are going to acquire some godly shooting skills from the heavens. Caliber doesn't really matter. Penetration matters. Carry the largest gun that you can control that will penetrate sufficiently. The reason the 357Mag has gotten such a bad reputation as a hunting cartridge and as a woods load in general is because of the use of commonly available JHPs which are designed to open up and stay in humans. Obviously a poor choice when you are trying to pound through the skull of a bear or the shoulder of a deer. If you can't hit with a 44Mag or 500S&W it won't be any more effective. No firearm is guaranteed to stop a bear because there are no guarantees that you will actually hit the bear in a vital enough area before he mauls you. It takes quite bit of skill and composure to hit a charging bear in an area that will do instant damage.

[pesta2]

I read an article in on of the Firearm Publications (sorry no sure which one) about a professional hunting guide in Alaska. He said him and his daughter only carried 357 mags. He used a load that was something I never seen, Norma 190gr FMJ. He shot numerous bears with it and tested in different types of medium. He said that the .357 would out penetrate a 44 mag on brown bear. He only took head and spine shots on charging or wounded bear because he said that is the only way to stop a brown with a handgun. Anyone else read it?

[swampdog]

I hunt, hike, camp and play in the Dismal Swamp of NC. We have lots of big black bears around here. I've never felt undergunned with my .357.

If you did "have" to shoot a bear down here in self-defence, you better have some teeth/claw marks on your body or you will end up getting a big fine and possible jail time. The game wardens have been known to back trail legally killed bear to make sure it wasn't killed over bait. They'd put a "self-defense" shooting under a magnifying glass.

The chances of actually having to defend yourself against a black bear are very slim, anyway. I've run into quite a few and like another poster mentioned, they usually run like dogs.

[jacobtowne]

Is there a big bear problem in Springfield, Mass??

Not that I've heard of.
On the other hand, there is a handgun black bear season here in the Bay State in September, revolvers .357 Magnum or larger. Evidently our wildlife people consider the cartridge adequate.
(There's also a centerfire rifle season in November.)
JT

[famine]

+1 Ruger .454

[JNewell]

Black bear - .357/180 should be fine. Many eastern BBs aren't as big as some large male humans.

Brown bear is another story. I don't think any handgun, nor most rifles, are "guaranteed" bear stoppers. At least, not in the time you'd have available to stop a threat dead.

[cje1980]

Even with a 6-inch barrel and the hottest .357 load available, it wouldn't inspire my confidance vs. a Bear weighing over say, 300 lbs.

A hot 357 load out of a 6" barrel is pushing 700-900ft/lbs. Quite similar to most commercially available 44Mag ammo off the shelf at your local gun store. The issue is penetration not caliber nor energy levels. The 357 with the right load will penetrate as well as most 44Mag loads and is certainly adequate for most of the Black Bear that you will run into. Sure there are bigger bears out there but then again there are 400+ lb humans. Should I start carrying a 454Cas because I might run into a 500lb human who wants to do me harm. The average Black Bear weighs 200-300lbs. Clearly the orginal poster is looking for a weapon that is going to be practical for him to own and cheap to shoot. A 44Mag if you're not a reloader is a rather limited use handgun. Its only useful as a hunting and woods gun. Ammo availability is somewhat more scarce than the 357. The 357 is a lot more versatile and practical for the non-reloader or for a person who is wanting one gun for a lot of uses. Any 180gr. HC 357 load has the oomph to bust open a bears skull or penetrate a shoulder. Its a matter of sectional density and velocity. The 44Mag has the same case length so it simply launches bullets with similar sectional density at similar velocities. It gets more energy because its a wider bullet and makes a bigger hole. To me the 357 is the ideal all around gun. It excels at personal defense with 125-145gr. JHPs. You can find cheap ammo in 38Spl and 357Mag. It is a capable deer caliber with the right load 158+gr and with a heavy 180gr. HC load is quite capable for bear defense. All while being packable, controllable, and practical for a wide range of shooters. Federal's 180gr. Cast Core is not terribly hard to control yet will pack quite the punch on a bear. My advice is to get a revolver of decent weight so that you can control it. One other thing, if you are using a 357 for bear defense don't get a snubby. I would go with at least a 3" barrel, preferrably 4-6" to get better performance and controllability. Sure the snubbies are cute but the 357Mag out of a 2" barrel is barrel getting 9mm +p ballistics. The Ruger GP100 and S&W 686 would be good candidates.

[BLKLABMAN]

CJE,
I agree, with what you have said in your post. I have taken many Whitetail deer and 14 Black bears over the years, with a 4" 357mag revolver.
For the range, night stand, woods carry, or hunting(deer, black bear), the .357mag revolver is the all around gun.

[357 Plato]

I do not know anything about hunting or killing bears.

But I was reading an article in a Swedish magazine where they tested different kind of ammo.

They wanted to know if an “amour pricing” 357 would penetrate a bullet proof west. This particular 357 did not perform well against the west. (Or the west performed well against this particular 357) It could not penetrate but would leave a dent in the vital organ protection steel plate.

They then tested some hot army 9mm ammo designed for sub machine guns. (Bofors 39B I think) It went right through the steel plate, but was stopped by the west.

The testers came to the conclusion that the design of the bullet was the secret behind the ability of the 9mm to penetrate the steel plate. The 357 bullet disintegrated upon impact. The 9mm had an extra thick jacket and the bullet stayed in one piece.

I´m not trying to say that a 9mm is a good bear gun. I do not know if this particular 9mm ammo would penetrate a bear.

But in this particular case bullet design was more important than power. And I can remember wondering what the 9mm bullet would have done to the west had it been used in a 357 revolver.