38 Special question

[chris in va]

I usually load semiauto calibers so this is a bit new to me.

I'm using a Lee 125gr RN lead bullet normally in my 9mm reloads. The Lyman manual shows I can use 700x and 7625 which is all I can obtain in pistol powders.

As the case is much larger than 9mm, am I supposed to be using a bit of tissue paper to fill the rest of the void to prevent misfires? Neither powder is particularly bulky like Unique, which is unobtanium.

[AFK]

I would not put in any tissue paper. There are others on this forum more knowledgeable than me, and I'm sure they will chime in, but I would be wary of an overpressure situation. I have worked up .38 loads with Titegroup, W231, Bullsyeye, and Unique and all of them shot just fine. It looks pretty empty in the case with only 4.2 grains of Titegroup, but they work just fine.

[chris in va]

Ok, thanks. Just a bit disconcerting seeing all that extra space.

[Nick_C_S]

Just a bit disconcerting seeing all that extra space.

Welcome to loading 38 Special

[Jim243]

Chris, you don't need to, but you might like to use small pistol mag primers for the 38 Spl just to insure the powder in all that space is lit. They work just fine with standard small pistol primers, I use them just for peace of mind. (but since I use Win-231 for powder they are not really needed.)

Jim

[Sevens]

I'm thinking that outside of IMR Trail Boss, there's no load for .38 Special that uses ALL that space and can still stay within the pressure limits of .38 Special.

Yup, tons of space is a calling card of .38.

[OverPressure]

Wadding can be very effective in controling what a particular powder is
doing during ignition.

With all the adaptions many of us are having to make due to supply it
can make the difference between a poorly functioning rd to reliable
velocity and clean burning.

You probably won't have any problem at all with 700X, my gut feeling
with the higher pressure it will ignite just fine!!!

I have had Titegroup in a low velocity target rd not ignite. A little piece
of tissue and it is one of my most consistant target rds. It chronographs
at about 825fps , just a plinker. When I say not ignite, bullet lodged in the
barrel, powder in the barrel.

I have been expermenting with wadding for the last couple years, it has made
horrible performing powders , excellent performing powders.

I always start at the low end of the range and work my way up. I chronograph
EVERYTHING.

I could not proceed in reloading without my chronograph. Best $120 I ever
spent!!!

[ljnowell]

The 38 special started it's life as a black powder cartridge, hence the large amount of empty space.

Do not fear, however, even very small charges of fine ball powder light off just fine. My favorite is 3.5gr of AA #2 and a 158 grain LSWC.

[James K]

All I can say is that I loaded a fair number of rounds of .38 Special with 2.7 grains of Bullseye, and never used a filler even though that load leaves a lot of space in the case. I have also used 9mm bullets in the 115-125 grain range with light loads and never used a filler. The only problem is that FMJ auto pistol bullets have no crimping groove, so you have to play with the case sizing and either not expand the case mouth or keep it to a minimum.

Shotgun powders do fine in most pistol loads, but the real reason for using them is that they are cheap. Zillions of shotgunners buy the stuff by the ton, and volume production keeps costs down compared with rifle and pistol powders.

Jim

[boondocker385]

I reload lots of 38 special with 709x. You don't need filler and you don't need magnum primers.

[Onward Allusion]

Like others said, the empty space is fine. As for the crimp, a roll-crimp will do, especially with soft shooting loads.

[Sport45]

Loading .45 (acp, Colt, or most other flavors) with TiteGroup is the same way. Seems like a proper charge is just a dusting in the bottom of the case.

The big problem with the fast, dense powders in large cases is that it is much harder to see a double charge. You don't need a filler but you do have to be careful. It's probably been close to twenty years since I used 700X. Does it still measure about like you'd expect cornflakes to?

[chris in va]

700x still looks like corn flakes. It filled about half the case, which puts my mind at ease.

[boondocker385]

Meters fine in my rcbs powder measure. ...

[skizzums]

I have a question....why? Why all that space? Simply because it's an old round and the powders were less efficient? Couldn't you just cut the case down by half and make a smaller gun. Or is that pretty much where the 9mm came from

When my case mouths split I just cut it off and load it as my powderpuff loads.

[sawdustdad]

I've used 3.2g of Nitro 100NF in .38sp. loads, and it's also barely a dusting in the bottom of the case. No problems with ignition or consistency.

[TimSr]

Fast burning powders nomrally used for cast bullets work fine with near empty cases and standard primers. Fillers are typically only used with slow burning powders mostly in rifle cartridges with reduced loads.

[Idaho Spud]

Originally Posted by skizzums

I have a question....why? Why all that space? Simply because it's an old round and the powders were less efficient?

38 Spec was loaded with BP in the early days. I'm guessing the early smokeless powders were a lot "fluffier", too.

[Sevens]

I have a question....why? Why all that space? Simply because it's an old round and the powders were less efficient? Couldn't you just cut the case down by half and make a smaller gun. Or is that pretty much where the 9mm came from

It's the roots of the round itself. It was an improvement on the .38 Long Colt which had started life as a black powder round and that space was needed for the (much less) energetic black powder.

The .38 Special has never needed that much space for smokeless powder and the .357 Magnum was made longer not for the powder space but so the new .357 rounds wouldn't get inadvertently placed in the older, weaker .38 Special revolvers. You can do .357 Magnum performance without .357 brass.

A shorter .38 Special wouldn't be a 9mm in almost every way we measure what makes a cartridge. Slightly different bullet diameter, straight wall & not tapered case, HALF the max allowable pressure and rimmed, not rimless. Except for the fact that each of these rounds uses a similar diameter bullet, they are really nothing whatsoever alike.