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Old December 17, 2009, 02:31 PM   #1
HiBC
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Kabooms and reloadig bulged cases

First,my point is NOT to demean any brand of firearm.

We see kaboom threads and pictures,often of 40 S+W cal handguns with somewhat unsupported chambers.

When a case bulges,especially just ahead of the rim,it seems to me there has to be a near shearing action within the brass,as the wall is offset over a very short distance.

Resizing will push it back in shape,but not integrity.

My suggestion: Scrap all bulged cases.

Why did I write this?

I am pondering a .44 mag rifle I have .It has an out of round chamber,and bulges cases.I was considering the implications,then thought of the kaboom threads.

Looking at range brass,I have seen a fair amount of bulged 40 S+W.
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Old December 17, 2009, 02:51 PM   #2
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Redding's G-Rx die is made specifically for .40 S&W cases to push the bulge back, and it apparently succeeds in making most of these cases reusable. However, there is a recent thread on another forum with links to photos showing PMC brand cases formed with a wall fold back near the head rather than having a solid head, and these proved to have head separations on their first reloading. So, you need good quality cases to work with.

A lot of lever guns have slightly oval or elliptical chambers at the very rear to assist in chambering, but I've never heard of that causing a reloading problem, per se, even in fairly high pressure rounds. It shortens case life, as the sizing operation is doing extra work on an un-annealed portion of the case. For that reason, you would be prudent to keep an extra sharp eye out for incipient cracking or unusual wear marks when loading these. I think I would not try to get more than four loads, total, out of those cases, including the load fired when they were new, be it yours or a commercial load.

Hatcher's Notebook includes experiments with the safety of firing with extreme excess headspace. He reamed .30-06 chambers deeper to see if head separations occured? These would have been new rounds fired each time, and not reloads. Nonetheless, he was able to get rounds to fire cases with up to something like two tenths of an inch of extra headspace. He never got a head separation using that new military brass. It proves good cases are remarkably tough when you consider what they have to put up with.
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Last edited by Unclenick; December 18, 2009 at 10:30 AM.
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Old December 18, 2009, 03:35 AM   #3
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Thank you
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Old December 18, 2009, 05:22 AM   #4
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I use a standard Lee die set. Shoot and reload for Glocks and never had a problem. Just check brass after each step in the reloading process.
I also shoot lead and plated bullets in Glocks, many say not to but I have had no problems.
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Old December 18, 2009, 08:31 AM   #5
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I am new to the world of Glock 40 S&W. I have been trying to play catch up. Now I have loaded Ammo for 40 years. So I am not new to reloading. Just to the 40. As with everything in reloading. Some guys will get away with stuff. That others will not or would not attempt.
In the Glock I have found, There are three Generations thus far. And the first. Which I have. Is the most notorious for bulging Brass. Lite loads I don’t have a problem reloading. Put a hot one in. And that Brass goes in the scrap Barrel un reloadable . My point being. We should be careful throwing out a Blanket statement.
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Old December 18, 2009, 01:05 PM   #6
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Thanks Unclenick!

Quote:
A lot of lever guns have slightly oval or elliptical chambers at the very rear to assist in chambering, but I've never heard of that causing a reloading problem, per se,
That answers a problem I had and still do run across on occasion when reloading for my 1894 30 WCF.
I started out reloading with a Lee hand loader and after experiencing chambering problems learned to test cycle all cases before reloading them as the Lee only resizes the neck. To this day I have sorted brass for this rifle and have 2 die sets and have tried other sets borrowed from friends to overcome an occasional tight case in my old rifle.
I think you have put this personnel mystery to rest.
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Old December 18, 2009, 01:35 PM   #7
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Though I have seen some guns get away with it, it doesn't normally occur to me to try to get a neck-sized cartridge to feed from a magazine. The usual rule of thumb is to run them into a sizing die at least far enough to set the shoulder back a couple of thousandths. Getting an oval case into an oval chamber after neck sizing, requires the case be inserted into the chamber with the head stamp in the same orientation it was originally fired with. You might find that some of the cases you thought were fine still won't work with the wrong orientation, and vice versa. Some case brands may have enough extra brass that they never fireformed 100% to the out-of-round chamber with your loads?
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Old December 18, 2009, 02:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Redding's G-Rx die is made specifically for .40 S&W cases to push the bulge back, and it apparently succeeds in making most of these cases reusable.
The LEE factory crimp die in 40 S&W makes a good pass through die, just take the top off and pull the sliding taper crimp insert out and use a bullet punch from the LEE push though bullet sizer.
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Old December 18, 2009, 02:37 PM   #9
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I've reloaded thousands of Glock bulged cases for my non Glock 40's, and have had zero problems. I am going to reprint an old diatribe of mine.

Quote:
The Undeserved Myth of Glock Kabooms.
I got my polygonal barreled 40S&W’s when the ”lead bullets cause Glock and other polygonal-barrel KAGOOMS” was being wildly bantered about on many forums, with very little truth to the mix. Before reloading lead, I did extensive research and discussed the problem with some well known gunsmiths and the Glock people at the SHOT Show. Both sphincters on every Glock staff were tighter than a bull a$$ at fly time. Nice folks, but NO HELP THERE! But they did make a valid point. Glock pistols are tremendously popular, and by shear weight of numbers you will have more “supposed problems” (their words).

There was no single factor that caused the problem; there were combinations of contributing factors. The shortest oversimplification is, “Glock KABOOMS were most commonly caused by lead buildup which could have been avoided with frequent inspection and cleaning of the chamber and barrel.” Just how often is frequent??? Every 100 rounds is anal, every 200 rounds is prudent??????? Hell, I’ll err on anal until I get some data to increase or decrease.

Problems:
Unsupported Chamber - Glock started with loose chambers with a small grove at the rear in the 6 o’clock position, thus the case was not touching anything at that point, it was unsupported. If the pressure is sufficient and/or the case weak, then it will either expand into the unsupported portion of the chamber or will rupture.
Firing Out Of Battery - Means the weapon will fire when the slide is not completely forward; therefore, the cartridge brass is not properly head spaced against the front of the chamber. Glock violently denies their weapons do this. However, everyone I know with an older Glock will tell you they do.
Lead Bullets – the lead needs to be at least a Brinell hardness of 19. Velocities should be kept under 1000fps.

So what causes the KABOOMS?????? The common factor of kabooms was usually case failure, and most of the failures were with reloaded cases. But remember that factory rounds cause good numbers of KABOOMS every year as well.

Glock’s research of KABOOMS showed a build up of lead at the point of head-spacing. This caused the cartridges to be progressively set farther back in the chamber farther and farther as more rounds were fired. The design of the older Glocks allowed them to fire (fire out of battery) these rounds which were set back. If the pressure were sufficient, the case would rupture.

What factors can cause over pressure????? Obviously an overloaded round will do nicely. Lead bullets will cause leading in the barrel and the chamber. The degree of build up and the number of shots required to reach overpressure will vary wildly with lead composition/velocity/powder/lube and so on. The leading of the chamber in combination with the increased pressure of a leaded barrel can cause the case to rupture. There are lots of other factors, but will not be discussed here.

As mentioned, shooting jacketed bullets after lead in polygonal barrels does not clean out the lead. In reality the jacketed bullets irons the lead to shiny flat coating and the bore is decreased.

Bottom line. Shooting lead in polygonal barrels is safe as long as you use hard cast bullets, check the chamber and barrel for leading frequently, and clean the weapon more frequently than you would with jacketed.
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Old December 18, 2009, 03:32 PM   #10
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Unclenick.

Quote:
You might find that some of the cases you thought were fine still won't work with the wrong orientation, and vice versa. Some case brands may have enough extra brass that they never fireformed 100% to the out-of-round chamber with your loads?
I never had a problem when reloading my spent brass. It was when I started picking up range brass and brass from others. In fact I would fire form some that were just slightly snug (could close lever with moderate force) and then they would cycle just fine thereafter in my rifle.
When I started full length sizing I would still have problems with range brass and had to be careful when picking up my brass. As I said I tried many die sets and still find one on occasion that is snug, to the point that the Grandsons can't close the action.
I do have a tight chamber, and it probably doesn't have an elliptical chamber.
As before, Thanks for helping me understand an old nagging problem
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Old December 18, 2009, 05:18 PM   #11
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Glad it was solved. I misunderstood that the oval chamber was not yours. Since it isn't, you can see why some folks find they have to use a small base die on once-fired brass the first time it is sized. That'll kill the bulge pretty decisively, and, as you note, once fireformed to your chamber it can only size smaller, so from then on it fits with normal sizing.

I ran into an old issue of Sierra's X-ring newsletter that makes a point of the fact some extremely stretched brass can never be resized to fit a tight chamber, not even with a small base die. Something still smaller is needed. That turned up with some .223 brass another board member sent me. I makes me wonder what the commercial reloaders of once-fired brass are using for an initial sizing die? My Dillon carbide die couldn't make some of it small enough, either. Probably stretched in a full-auto gun.
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Old December 18, 2009, 06:22 PM   #12
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Never reload a bulged case, you lifes to valuable.
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Old December 18, 2009, 06:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
some folks find they have to use a small base die on once-fired brass the first time it is sized.
And I didn't know there was such a thing as "Small base dies"
Back when that was a serious issue (with my only deer rifle) there was no internet, and I didn't know more than a couple others that reloaded. We had to struggle with what we had.
I am humbled
Thank you.
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