document dump mentioned on Public Radio today - Page 2

**Tom Servo** · April 16, 2016, 07:14 AM

Quote:

1. William Newell, the agent in charge of Fast and Furious was reduced in grade from SES (GS-15 or above) to GS-13.

2. Lead agent, Hope Macallister got a letter of reprimand.

3. David Voth, the Phoenix group supervisor, was demoted.

Letters of reprimand and demotions...for planning and committing criminal acts that played a part to dozens of murders.

Let's not forget George Gillett, who lied on a 4473 when purchasing a pistol, then claims to have sold it "on the internet." The gun mysteriously ended up in Sinaloa, where it was used to shoot a beauty queen to death. He was the ASAC for the Phoenix division during the operation. To the best of my knowledge, he has not been prosecuted or demoted.

The big problem here is, the moment has passed. Issa and Grassley mishandled the whole situation, and now it's just a footnote in history.

thallub · April 16, 2016, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Letters of reprimand and demotions...for planning and committing criminal acts that played a part to dozens of murders.

Exactly. The BATFE refused to fire agent Newell even though the DOJ IG called for his firing.

Quote:

The big problem here is, the moment has passed. Issa and Grassley mishandled the whole situation, and now it's just a footnote in history.

Yep, these guys mismanaged a serious investigation into gunrunning and murder. They steadfastly refused to demand top to bottom the reform of the BATFE?

Just maybe the Holder guy had some goods on Issa's past shenanigans. Google up "Issa stole my car". Jay Bergey was a long time friend of mine and i believe him.

Issa was an Army student at EOD school while i was an instructor there. i do not remember him.

**Tom Servo** · April 16, 2016, 09:07 AM

Quote:

They steadfastly refused to demand top to bottom the reform of the BATFE?

It was all about politics. They were hoping to connect the operation directly to the Oval Office and implicate the President. Barring that, they wanted a public showdown with Holder. It was about scoring political points.

To the best of my knowledge, they didn't call for the prosecution of a single person actually involved in the operation, despite reams of evidence.

alan · April 16, 2016, 07:26 PM

We can go round and round on this matter, however in my view, the following facts remain.

1. The guilty parties have not been, nor are they likely to ever be punished, and they certainly are deserving of punishment, given that their antics contributed to the death of a U.S. Official and how many Mexican nationals, who knows.
2. Possibly, or probably, I expect more from "government" than is reasonable, I cannot say. My view of things might be overly simplistic, that too is a possibility. I simply call things as I see them, however as a private citizen, if my antics led to the killing of a government official, I rather suspect that the thing would have been handled in a markedly different manner. Am I wrong there?
3. In conclusion, for those who have seen a copy of Unintended Consequences, including the book jacket, think a moment on the jacket illustration, re this Fast and Furious fiasco. It strikes me that if the man shown had pulled the trigger of his "burp gun", that he would likely end up being promoted. This conclusion tells me that the country faces problems most serious. Does it tell you something else?

April 16, 2016, 07:26 PM	#29
alan Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 1999 Posts: 3,847	We can go round and round on this matter, however in my view, the following facts remain. 1. The guilty parties have not been, nor are they likely to ever be punished, and they certainly are deserving of punishment, given that their antics contributed to the death of a U.S. Official and how many Mexican nationals, who knows. 2. Possibly, or probably, I expect more from "government" than is reasonable, I cannot say. My view of things might be overly simplistic, that too is a possibility. I simply call things as I see them, however as a private citizen, if my antics led to the killing of a government official, I rather suspect that the thing would have been handled in a markedly different manner. Am I wrong there? 3. In conclusion, for those who have seen a copy of Unintended Consequences, including the book jacket, think a moment on the jacket illustration, re this Fast and Furious fiasco. It strikes me that if the man shown had pulled the trigger of his "burp gun", that he would likely end up being promoted. This conclusion tells me that the country faces problems most serious. Does it tell you something else?