Spectre M4

Swiss Shooter · January 16, 2007, 01:26 AM

I'm going to buy one of these Italian SMGs (semi-auto) on Thursday and I can find barely anything about its characteristics. Only stats. Does somebody own one, or can anybody tell me about quirks and potential finickiness of this weapon? Thanks.

GalilARM · January 17, 2007, 12:20 AM

All I know is that its got a cool magazine configuration....Isnt it a triple stack 9mm SMG mag that bottlenecks into a double stack as it gets to the top of the mag? Maybe I'm way off, but I think the mag holds like 40-50 rounds and its an odd configuration. Thats all I can tell ya

EDIT: nevermind, its a QUADRUPLE stack mag that necks down to normal at the top.

Swiss Shooter · January 17, 2007, 03:41 AM

That's right. I've been warned about mag trouble on the Spectre. I guess I'll figure out about its ammo preferences by trial and error.

Swiss Shooter · January 18, 2007, 05:06 PM

Here's the weapon in question:

GalilARM · January 19, 2007, 10:25 AM

thats so hot.

Swiss Shooter · January 19, 2007, 03:47 PM

Thanks. I'll answer my own question about handling as soon as I shoot it this weekend.

buzz_knox · January 19, 2007, 03:48 PM

It's got a DA trigger pull, so the first shot will take some getting used to.

oldbillthundercheif · January 19, 2007, 04:38 PM

Nice! I always wanted one of those.

Der Schweitz must not have the same legal hang-ups we yanks have regarding vertical foregrips on pistols, eh?

Prophet · January 19, 2007, 04:46 PM

WOW!!! Where can you get one of those at? Also if you don't mind me asking how much did it cost ya?

Swiss Shooter · January 20, 2007, 02:41 PM

You're not allowed vertical foregrips, oldbill? Why the heck not? They're perfectly legal here in good ol' Schweiz, yep. The only thing the bureaucrats frown on here are imported automatics, silencers and NV, but even those are available with the proper permit.
Sorry I didn't see your question yesterday, Prophet. But it got answered in the other thread: cost $950.
Okay, to answer my own question about handling. Like buzz said, the initial DA trigger pull was a tough one - especially for me and my little lady hands. Before I even got that far, though, I had to fumble with the mag for a couple minutes. The spring stuck and hindered a smooth chambering and repetition. But the gun is new and basically never shot, so both mag and weapon need to get used to work. At first I filled the mag with only 25 rounds. I couldn't fit anymore in. Filling those mags is not a fast process, and nobody invented a loading help for 4-stack mags as far as I know, but the mag got filled and made the gun noticeably heavier. After those 25 - I used 124 gr Geco - I could fill it up with a full 32. That made it very heavy, which probably helped keep it level while firing.
It shoots beautifully once you get past the DA. With the stock against my shoulder there was no recoil and no kicks into the air. It lands a neat group, has a rather big muzzle fire, but it shoots great. After the initial spring blockage, the magazine didn't cause anymore trouble. It just needed to be broken in.

oldbillthundercheif · January 20, 2007, 03:28 PM

I can't think of a good reason either, but the law's the law I guess.

In the US your little semi-SMG would be considered a SBR (Short Barreled Rifle) since it has a stock, but not a 16" barrel. I did not notice the folding stock the first time I looked at the photo.

Pistols with vertical foregrips are AOWs (Any Other Weapon), a weird designation that I don't fully understand.

In either case we would have to file some hefty paperwork and pay for a $200 tax-stamp to get one of those puppies over here, assuming local laws would allow it.

What's the process like over in the land of mountains and good-looking women these days? I have not been over there in quite a while.

Swiss Shooter · January 20, 2007, 03:39 PM

Those are weird regulations. It's easier here. (I'm just going to copy and paste what my answer from the Art of the Rifle thread; hope you don't mind.)
Swiss procedure for getting guns: For citizens and Class C foreigners (people who live and work here, with the exception of more than a dozen Balkan and Eastern nationalities who aren't allowed to own weapons), it's easy. You send in to your local bureaucrat in charge of safety and culture an application for a buying permit together with an ID copy and a paper from the Central Crime Register that should say you're not in trouble with the law. They can take longer or shorter to give you your WES (Waffenerwerbsschein=buying permit); for me it takes less than two weeks, but I'm lucky to have a very uncomplicated bureaucrat in charge. Zürich is unfortunately one of the more socialist cantons and a lot of the bureaucrats can act up, but unless you're in trouble with the law they can't deny you a WES.
The WES allows you to buy three guns of your choosing, or you can have the bureaucrat fill in what you want ahead of time. Certain weapons require special permits (daggers, silencers, night vision, and imported automatics) which are rather more subject to bureaucratic arbitrariness and would be harder to get here in Zürich. But normal weapons are no problem.
When you buy your guns - btw, a WES in only required to buy from dealers; private deals don't need any paperwork even though the bureaucrats encourage have a written agreement - the dealer fills in details of the sale. The buyer keeps a copy, the seller keeps a copy and the third is sent back to your local bureaucrat. So the guns you buy from a dealer are registered with the State, which isn't ideal, but it's easy to get them.
The permit for "forbidden" weapons costs three times the price of a normal WES and is more subject to whether the bureaucrat in charge got up on the right side of bed that morning, but are also available for MGs and NV and lasers and whatnot.

January 16, 2007, 01:26 AM	#1
Swiss Shooter Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Location: Where shooting is subsidized and soldiers bring their guns home. Posts: 61	Spectre M4 I'm going to buy one of these Italian SMGs (semi-auto) on Thursday and I can find barely anything about its characteristics. Only stats. Does somebody own one, or can anybody tell me about quirks and potential finickiness of this weapon? Thanks. __________________ A man with a gun is a citizen. A man without a gun is a subject.

January 17, 2007, 03:41 AM	#3
Swiss Shooter Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Location: Where shooting is subsidized and soldiers bring their guns home. Posts: 61	That's right. I've been warned about mag trouble on the Spectre. I guess I'll figure out about its ammo preferences by trial and error. __________________ A man with a gun is a citizen. A man without a gun is a subject.

January 18, 2007, 05:06 PM	#4
Swiss Shooter Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Location: Where shooting is subsidized and soldiers bring their guns home. Posts: 61	Here's the weapon in question: __________________ A man with a gun is a citizen. A man without a gun is a subject.

January 19, 2007, 03:47 PM	#6
Swiss Shooter Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Location: Where shooting is subsidized and soldiers bring their guns home. Posts: 61	Thanks. I'll answer my own question about handling as soon as I shoot it this weekend. __________________ A man with a gun is a citizen. A man without a gun is a subject.

January 20, 2007, 02:41 PM	#10
Swiss Shooter Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Location: Where shooting is subsidized and soldiers bring their guns home. Posts: 61	You're not allowed vertical foregrips, oldbill? Why the heck not? They're perfectly legal here in good ol' Schweiz, yep. The only thing the bureaucrats frown on here are imported automatics, silencers and NV, but even those are available with the proper permit. Sorry I didn't see your question yesterday, Prophet. But it got answered in the other thread: cost $950. Okay, to answer my own question about handling. Like buzz said, the initial DA trigger pull was a tough one - especially for me and my little lady hands. Before I even got that far, though, I had to fumble with the mag for a couple minutes. The spring stuck and hindered a smooth chambering and repetition. But the gun is new and basically never shot, so both mag and weapon need to get used to work. At first I filled the mag with only 25 rounds. I couldn't fit anymore in. Filling those mags is not a fast process, and nobody invented a loading help for 4-stack mags as far as I know, but the mag got filled and made the gun noticeably heavier. After those 25 - I used 124 gr Geco - I could fill it up with a full 32. That made it very heavy, which probably helped keep it level while firing. It shoots beautifully once you get past the DA. With the stock against my shoulder there was no recoil and no kicks into the air. It lands a neat group, has a rather big muzzle fire, but it shoots great. After the initial spring blockage, the magazine didn't cause anymore trouble. It just needed to be broken in. __________________ A man with a gun is a citizen. A man without a gun is a subject.

January 17, 2007, 12:20 AM	#2
GalilARM Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2007 Location: TX Posts: 267	All I know is that its got a cool magazine configuration....Isnt it a triple stack 9mm SMG mag that bottlenecks into a double stack as it gets to the top of the mag? Maybe I'm way off, but I think the mag holds like 40-50 rounds and its an odd configuration. Thats all I can tell ya EDIT: nevermind, its a QUADRUPLE stack mag that necks down to normal at the top.

January 19, 2007, 10:25 AM	#5
GalilARM Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2007 Location: TX Posts: 267	thats so hot.

January 19, 2007, 03:48 PM	#7
buzz_knox Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 1999 Location: Knoxville, in the Free State of Tennesse Posts: 4,190	It's got a DA trigger pull, so the first shot will take some getting used to.

January 19, 2007, 04:38 PM	#8
oldbillthundercheif Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Location: New Orleans Posts: 2,450	Nice! I always wanted one of those. Der Schweitz must not have the same legal hang-ups we yanks have regarding vertical foregrips on pistols, eh?

January 19, 2007, 04:46 PM	#9
Prophet Junior member Join Date: November 20, 2006 Location: Great State of TEXAS Posts: 244	WOW!!! Where can you get one of those at? Also if you don't mind me asking how much did it cost ya?

January 20, 2007, 03:28 PM	#11
oldbillthundercheif Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2006 Location: New Orleans Posts: 2,450	I can't think of a good reason either, but the law's the law I guess. In the US your little semi-SMG would be considered a SBR (Short Barreled Rifle) since it has a stock, but not a 16" barrel. I did not notice the folding stock the first time I looked at the photo. Pistols with vertical foregrips are AOWs (Any Other Weapon), a weird designation that I don't fully understand. In either case we would have to file some hefty paperwork and pay for a $200 tax-stamp to get one of those puppies over here, assuming local laws would allow it. What's the process like over in the land of mountains and good-looking women these days? I have not been over there in quite a while.

January 20, 2007, 03:39 PM	#12
Swiss Shooter Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Location: Where shooting is subsidized and soldiers bring their guns home. Posts: 61	Those are weird regulations. It's easier here. (I'm just going to copy and paste what my answer from the Art of the Rifle thread; hope you don't mind.) Swiss procedure for getting guns: For citizens and Class C foreigners (people who live and work here, with the exception of more than a dozen Balkan and Eastern nationalities who aren't allowed to own weapons), it's easy. You send in to your local bureaucrat in charge of safety and culture an application for a buying permit together with an ID copy and a paper from the Central Crime Register that should say you're not in trouble with the law. They can take longer or shorter to give you your WES (Waffenerwerbsschein=buying permit); for me it takes less than two weeks, but I'm lucky to have a very uncomplicated bureaucrat in charge. Zürich is unfortunately one of the more socialist cantons and a lot of the bureaucrats can act up, but unless you're in trouble with the law they can't deny you a WES. The WES allows you to buy three guns of your choosing, or you can have the bureaucrat fill in what you want ahead of time. Certain weapons require special permits (daggers, silencers, night vision, and imported automatics) which are rather more subject to bureaucratic arbitrariness and would be harder to get here in Zürich. But normal weapons are no problem. When you buy your guns - btw, a WES in only required to buy from dealers; private deals don't need any paperwork even though the bureaucrats encourage have a written agreement - the dealer fills in details of the sale. The buyer keeps a copy, the seller keeps a copy and the third is sent back to your local bureaucrat. So the guns you buy from a dealer are registered with the State, which isn't ideal, but it's easy to get them. The permit for "forbidden" weapons costs three times the price of a normal WES and is more subject to whether the bureaucrat in charge got up on the right side of bed that morning, but are also available for MGs and NV and lasers and whatnot. __________________ A man with a gun is a citizen. A man without a gun is a subject.