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Old December 23, 2011, 10:12 AM   #51
Brian Pfleuger
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I don't see anybody implying that the ONLY criteria is legal/illegal.

We're not talking about wiping out a species so there's no discussion of the ethics involved with wiping out a species.

We're talking about a few people killing a few animals which number in the millions nationwide and whose population is expanding overall and out of control in some localities.

As such, the ethical question is only if it is or is not ethical to kill an animal. I'm confident that the answer to that question is pretty universally agreed upon in this forum.

It's not "hunting" to jam a steel rod through a cow's skull either but it results in an instant kill and it's not unethical if the animal is used for food.

This is the same situation. I don't consider it "hunting" to shoot an animal in a high fence area that can not escape.

However, it is not unethical if it is not illegal.
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Old December 23, 2011, 10:18 AM   #52
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If it was up to me, I would outlaw EVERY stand and blind in the country.
If it was up to me...... I would not outlaw the game farms: landowners are free to do with their property what they want to..... I just reserve the right to point out the "fish in a barrel" aspect of it..... you can not and should not attmept to legislate morality. Laws are there to prevent damage to others' rights and property. You are free to pay to shoot your own cow, if you want to..... or should be.... but!

....when your activities damage others' rights and property (game animals belong to "The People of the State of Nebraska" 'round here, and introducing CWD infected animals from wherever is damaging my right to hunt), well then, there has to be a law.
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Old December 23, 2011, 11:47 AM   #53
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when your activities damage others' rights and property (game animals belong to "The People of the State of Nebraska" 'round here, and introducing CWD infected animals from wherever is damaging my right to hunt), well then, there has to be a law.

There probably is. NC has had laws pertaining to this for some time.

We are even restricted as hunters as to what body parts we can bring back form other states, how it has to be cleaned, labeled, etc.
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Old December 23, 2011, 12:11 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by reloader28
Personally, I put it in the same category as blind hunting. If it was up to me, I would outlaw EVERY stand and blind in the country. I hate those things.
I would make everyone spot and stalk hunt or else you dont hunt.
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Where we hunt, there are small blocks of land ranging from 1-40 acres.

Thousands and thousands of people own parcels less than 15, even 10, acres that are the only places they can hunt.

How exactly does "spot and stalk" work on 10 acres of land, with 6 of it being field?

There are "personal preferences" and there are opinions like this, which are just beyond description without violating every forum rule we have.

Asinine. Absolutely ridiculous.
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Old December 23, 2011, 12:17 PM   #55
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Peetza, not only that, but I have a place you can walk in a stright line in any direction for a mile and except for one power line and a couple of creek bottoms that weren't timbered you can't see a deer if it is 30 feet away. Of course you can hear plenty of them.
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Old December 23, 2011, 12:39 PM   #56
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reloader28 apparently pays no attention to the idea that terrain and vegetation control the methodology of one's style of hunting--no matter how often explanations have been provided.
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Old December 23, 2011, 02:09 PM   #57
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Its hilarious reading opinions coming out of Nebraska, Wyoming, etc about how people should hunt in Southwest Texas, or Central/Western New York, etc.

I know you never see any in big parts of Nebraska, Wyoming, Eastern Colorado, etc but look up forest and brush the imagines might surprise you.


South Texas Brush Country

It would be fun to watch the 'real' hunters still hunt in that. Or take your little Brittany out for a quail hunt.


Land outside Laramie, WY

How do you guys 'stalk' the out there anyway? Disguised as a fence post, or a hay bale maybe?

I want to say that the experience of some posters is obviously limited. For example, to try and compare people who lease hunting rights on large tracts of land, to someone who shoots a pen raised animal in a relatively small enclosure is ridiculous.

It is also ridiculous to compare going around with your hat in your hand, hoping some kind rancher/farmer will let you hunt for free, to people who lease/own large tracts of land.

I'm sorry some people have never gotten to experience a first class quail plantation, with flight trained birds, or hunting deer on a South Texas sendero, etc. However, your lack of knowledge, experience and funds should not preclude you from investigating what its like, or taking the word of those who have been there.

I've hunted elk and mule deer in Colorado, deer, hogs, quail and turkeys in South Texas, Georgia, Alabama, Florida, New Mexico, Pennsylvania and Southern Illinois, with a rifle, shotgun, bow and handgun at various times. Different places have different methods that work when hunting, or are local tradition. One size doesn't fit all.

tl;dr Trying to compare the situation outlined in the OP, to large ranches and properly run raised bird hunting farms is ludicrous to the nth degree.
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Old December 23, 2011, 02:11 PM   #58
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I used to do a lot of deer stalking back when I was young. I was food hunting, and the need to fill the freezer was important to me and my little family when I was in my early 20's to early 30's. These days I'm not so concerned with killing a deer as I am with just peacefully watching (from my box blinds) nature go by. Of course I'm not so peaceful when a coyote or pig shows up, but 99% of the deer get a pass. If some of you guys want to stalk deer, go for it. If you want to drop out of a tree and kill them with a knife, I think you should do that too (but call me so I can watch, and then take you to the emergency room). You do it your way and please allow me to do it my way (with coffee, a heater, a good book, and a swivel chair).

Now, to get back on topic, I'm not fond of the canned hunts. Back a ways in this chat I mentioned that I used to host hunts for my corporation, but the deer, pigs, coyotes, and dove were completely wild (I'll not mention the quail). I don't consider that to be canned hunting. In contrast, I once accepted an offer to go pig hunting, and once I got to the ranch they put us in an elevated seat in a jeep and then a cowboy on a horse ran pigs in front of us. That was a canned hunt. I was shocked. It might have been fun for the city boys, but I thought it was awful. But...is that really so much different from somebody setting up and shooting gophers or whatever from 300 yards. I'm not criticizing gopher shooting, but I am suggesting that whatever you do, when viewed from someone else's eyes, might seem terrible, terrific, boring, unethical, dangerous, sexually stimulating (yes, I saw it all while hosting), or whatever.
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Old December 23, 2011, 02:25 PM   #59
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How do you guys 'stalk' the out there anyway? Disguised as a fence post, or a hay bale maybe?
That land is not as flat as it looks, and I have done some crawling to get close* to deer before ...... there are also ways to disguise youself- do a search for "cowboarding" .... I have seen guys going after snow geese like that, and heard of successful archery hunts using a cowboard......





*and "close" is a relative term out there..... and is the reason folks prefer flat shooting cartridges ...... that and the unrelenting wind.
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Old December 23, 2011, 02:30 PM   #60
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Flat shooting rifle? Well, thats not 'real' hunting.

Unless someone is wearing only a loin cloth and using a longbow, its just not authentic.
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Old December 23, 2011, 02:39 PM   #61
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That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Where we hunt, there are small blocks of land ranging from 1-40 acres.

Thousands and thousands of people own parcels less than 15, even 10, acres that are the only places they can hunt.

How exactly does "spot and stalk" work on 10 acres of land, with 6 of it being field?

There are "personal preferences" and there are opinions like this, which are just beyond description without violating every forum rule we have.

Asinine. Absolutely ridiculous.

peetzakilla
+1 on that! Wait until you get too old to go hiking all over and if on small plots of wooded land walk all around and screw up everyone else's hunting. See how many of your fellow hunters appreciate you. "I do it this way so that HAS to be the only way to do it!"

Yeah, right. You'd never kill a deer in Wisconsin.

Oh, and here is a picture of my blind...
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File Type: jpg blind2.jpg (183.7 KB, 31 views)

Last edited by warbirdlover; December 23, 2011 at 02:45 PM.
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Old December 23, 2011, 03:29 PM   #62
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With all the prefab stuff out now, I didn't think people made their own blinds anymore. Beautiful country, wish I had woods like that here
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Old December 23, 2011, 04:50 PM   #63
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I built it out of 1/2" treated plywood and 2x4's for $500. I would have liked to buy one of the new fiberglass ones but for one this size (4' x 8') it would have been over $1000. I have indoor/outdoor carpeting in it, a 25 gallon propane tank and heater on it, comfortable swivel bar stool and a ceiling light. My little slice of Wisconsin gun hunting Heaven I guess.
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File Type: jpg blind4.jpg (260.8 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg a1.jpg (259.8 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg a2.jpg (243.0 KB, 15 views)
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Old December 23, 2011, 05:01 PM   #64
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I know I'm getting away from the point of this thread but here's some pics of the hunting area around the blind.... 120 acres of oak woods on hilly terrain surrounded by marsh which is surrounded by corn fields. If the corn is cut we have chances at deer! Acorns all over the place! And they are white oaks so the deer love the acorns.
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File Type: jpg owl6.jpg (253.5 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg owl5.jpg (264.2 KB, 19 views)
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Old December 23, 2011, 05:05 PM   #65
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WBL, broadband internet or just dial-up in your hut?
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Old December 23, 2011, 05:07 PM   #66
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Here's the biggest ones taken from the stand closest to mine on opening day this year. He came from my direction... 20" inside...

Just cell phone!!
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File Type: jpg roger6.jpg (167.5 KB, 18 views)
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Old December 23, 2011, 09:27 PM   #67
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I'm a NY hunter. it's fair chase only, no bait, no nothing except fair chase. most days the deer out smart me. or sniff me out. but I'm hunting.
this year I'm hungry.

I thought about doing the bear over bait in Canada, or the hogs at bay in FL with dogs. never was that thrilled about the idea of it, so I havn't done either.

If I really want vension, I can do the $400 fenced doe, but I'd never go for a $10000 trophy buck. I call that shooting someones pet.
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Old December 23, 2011, 09:58 PM   #68
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The baiting laws in Wisconsin are so restrictive it doesn't pay. I'm in an oak woods with natural acorns all over the ground. I don't need to bait anyway. I know baiting black bear is probably the only way you'd ever get them but watching them do it on TV doesn't turn my crank at all. I would probably feel the same about building a "feeding station" for deer and sitting over it. I don't care if others do it and it is allowed it would just not be for me.

Now if I want to REALLY be a hunter I've got to learn how to spot and stalk those darn bucks in the thick Wisconsin woods! In my bright orange, glowing, blinking, flashing blaze orange clothes!
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Old December 23, 2011, 10:06 PM   #69
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A pretty good thread. I think it is good to talk about the different areas that are hunted. I have been around the country a bit and have seen how different the terrain is. That is why there is such heated discussions about the "proper" rifle to use. Add in local tradition and there really can be some difference of opinion. I suppose some fenced hunts are O.K., but they are fenced. If it held no advantage there would be no fence. The fenced areas around me don't even have to follow the state Game Laws so I can not consider them "Fairchase". A couple of us Pa. boys camp out for a couple days and hunt West Virginia every year. We sit around the campfire and laugh about guys like Warbirdlover. That is perfect terrain for walking up on a deer. Works good in the coal regions in Pa. also. Different areas/different cultures.
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Old December 23, 2011, 10:25 PM   #70
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We sit around the campfire and laugh about guys like Warbirdlover.
HEY!!
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Old December 23, 2011, 10:31 PM   #71
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And I sit around the campfire in Pink Crocs (Very comfortable and they were cheap). I just don't care.
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Old December 23, 2011, 10:36 PM   #72
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My 12 y.o. niece sits in the camper in her pink crocs, listening to her old man and me tell hunting stories over an adult beveridge or 3......
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Old December 24, 2011, 12:03 AM   #73
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Since we've long wandered away from the issue of game farms--of which there really aren't all that many outside the world of bird-shooting--enough for now...
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