shotshell reloading

[skizzums]

hey guys, i came across the most wonderful gun buy of my short lifetime today, got a nagant hex reciever, a nagant m44 and a 16.5 inch h&r 12ga pump for the low low price of 300$ for everything.

i have never reloaded shotgun shells before, i saw some very affordable lee kits, and since i have been happy with my lee reloading equipent so far i will stick with it. please walk me through the basics, what kind of primers? do i need to buy new hulls? or can i reuse? how any times? anyone know a good mold for slugs for a sooth bore?

just let me know the differences of supplies between shotgun and metallic reloading please and what i will need to get started. i have very little experience even shooting a shotgun btw.

thanks for any input, you guys always rock and teach me priceless knowledge

[rg1]

1st and most important is that loading shotgun you do not work up loads. You load exactly the load in the shotshell manual AND you use exactly the hull, wad, powder charge, primer, and shot charge listed. A switch of any component could cause over pressure and be unsafe. Next if you haven't loaded any shotshells before you need a good manual and Lyman's Shotshell manual is probably the best. It will provide detailed "how-to's" and enough load data for most everything you would want to load in a shotgun. Only thing is with the price of lead shot today that you can't load shotshells as cheap as you can buy bulk packs like from Wal-Mart, Cabela's, Bass Pro, Dick's and such places. A 25 lb. bag of shot costs around $40-$50 today and will load approximately 325-350 shells with a 1 1/8 oz. charge. Add the wad, primer, and powder cost and you don't save much if any. Haven't used the inexpensive Lee Shotshell Reloading machine. I do recommend Mec presses, Mayfield Engineering Corp.
You can find all kinds of slugs and slug reloading equipment plus they have manuals for most every kind of shotgun load at Ballistic Products Inc BPI. I have their Shotgun Slug Loading Manual. They sell slugs, slug molds, wads, and some tools needed to reload some slugs plus show you how to load them. Check out BPI for their slug manual 1st. Only thing is that a lot of their loads in their manuals requires you to buy hulls and their wads too. If you have the lead to mold slugs it probably won't be too expensive. Again, with shotgun you use EXACTLY the load and components listed in a manual. Check out BPI on their site.

[skizzums]

i will be casting my own shot and slugs, i have years of lead stockpiled. just curious on items i need to start looking for to start loading #6 to #8 and slugs

can i reuse hulls? or do i need to purchase new?

[rg1]

Added to the post above.
The Lyman Shotshell Manual has some slug data too.

[FrankenMauser]

hey guys, i came across the most wonderful gun buy of my short lifetime today, got a ... 16.5 inch h&r 12ga pump

Unless it has a rifled barrel, I hope that barrel length is a typo.
A 16.5" barrel would make that shotgun an NFA item, outside of some really small loopholes and limited exceptions where undefined non-rifle/non-handgun/non-shotgun "firearms" reside.



For shotshell reloading, it's best to decide on which hull you're going to be using. Then decide what payload you want (how much of what shot size, or which slug). From there, you can pick up the appropriate wads, powder, and primers. Don't substitute. Just a primer substitution in 'standard' 12 ga trap loads has been shown to be capable of increasing chamber pressure by more than 7k psi.

[loademwell]

I love to reload for shotgun.
Lee is a good brand. I use it for my rifle reloading. But not for shotgun.
I got a very nice MEC off of CL. for 100 bucks. They tossed in a few wads (Which you need) and Shot (which you need too) Lets try this;
Things you need:
Components:
Shot (These come in 25lb bags for around 50 bucks. The # on them represents the size of the shot. The bigger the number the smaller the bb's)
Wads (Don't know a lot about these. But you do need them... Look in your shotgun reloading book for what wad you need for the size of the load) for 12 gauge shot shells, there are: 2 3/4 inch, 3 inch, and 3 1/2 (Big boy that one.. Usually used for Turkey or goose hunting.. Its a big wallop when you pull the trigger on that one) WADS: I think the most common are AA
Primers: 209 (shotgun primers) You can find these in the Black powder section at places like Walmart... But they are a bit more expensive.)
Powder: I like Hodgen Titewad myself. But look around for other shotgun powders.

Then you need your tool: i.e. press.... These are a 1 size fits all so to speak. You do not need to buy dies for this. When you buy one its for a 12g all ready.... IF YOU GO WITH A MAC, You will also need a "charge bar" for it along with a few "Powder bushings" Let me know if you go with one of these, I will explain more about it for ya.... But if you look at one, NEW, they may come with some of them. Not sure...

Here is a quick online (download, print) book that will get you an idea of how I do it.
http://www.megcha.com/ChadBuckendahl...Buckendahl.pdf

Need the recipes: http://data.hodgdon.com/shotshell_load.asp

Hulls: You can reload these a lot of times. You may find some are a bit better then others.

Join a trap range. They have buckets and buckets of hulls that just get burned after they get too many. I can pick up a 5 gallon bucket each week at my range.

Quick note about MEC Charge bars: If you do get one of these there are 2#'s on the end of them. they will look like

118----- means 1 1/8th oz of shot
302----- Size of the mec bushing hole. (90% of them will be 302) (I think)

Good luck. Feel free to IM me if you have more questions.

[loademwell]

One more thing about hulls:

I read someplace that it really dosn't matter what hull you use as long as the length is the same. i.e. Make 2 3/4 from 2 3/4 hulls. After a while, you will be able to tell right off the bat.

If you go to a gun range, pick up the Winchester AA Double handicap. Great ones to use for reloading your 2 3/4 shells.

I also read that "GOOD PRACTICE" is to only put the shot size that is printed on the hull.... But it is in no way dangers to not do this.

[BigD_in_FL]

Lee shotgun equipment sucks quite frankly. It is non-adjustable, mostly plastic and zinc castings and for about the same money, you can get a used MEC Jr.

That out of the way, you need a manual, scale, primers, powder, hulls, wads, shot/slugs. In 12 and 20 stick with Remington hulls - any version - they all load using the same data. Both Hodgdon and Alliant have reloading data on their websites and you can match the hull with the powder and correct wad. This is NOT metallic where everything is interchangeable. Mixing the incorrect components can lead to increased pressures which can be a bad thing. Shot and powder are actually dropped by volume with a certain volume corresponding to a certain weight; however the bushing are rarely correct as humidity and hopper density can affect powder and antimony can affect shot weight which is why you use a scale and a chrono to verify things

[BigD_in_FL]

I read someplace that it really dosn't matter what hull you use as long as the length is the same. i.e. Make 2 3/4 from 2 3/4 hulls. After a while, you will be able to tell right off the bat.

Absolutely FALSE

Win AA are NOT the same as their cheap as crap Universals or Super Speeds. Neither Win AA or Rem STS use the same data as the Federals. Win and Rem are tapered, Feds are straight-walled. Some have one-piece bases, some have separate paper base wads.

One of the best (and inexpensive) hulls to use is the Remington Gun Club. Buy yourself a few boxes and save the hulls - you should get about 10 reloads per hull

I also read that "GOOD PRACTICE" is to only put the shot size that is printed on the hull.... But it is in no way dangers to not do this.

Where does THIS BS come from? The makers use the same hull with different shot sizes - that matters nothing. What DOES matter is using the PROPER wad to match the hull in question and they are not interchangeable between tapered and straight-walled hulls

[BigD_in_FL]

Quick note about MEC Charge bars: If you do get one of these there are 2#'s on the end of them. they will look like

118----- means 1 1/8th oz of shot
302----- Size of the mec bushing hole. (90% of them will be 302) (I think)

MEC charge bars are fixed as to shot weight from 1/2 to well over 1-1/8 oz. They use bushings of various diameters to drop differing volumes (and therefore weight) of powder
There are two types of charge bars - those for single stage presses and those for their progressive presses and those are NOT interchangeable with each other

Bars bored for powder bushings are designated 502 series for progressive tools and 302 series for single-stage tools. The number below either series indicates the amount of shot the bar will dispense. For example, a 302-118 is a single-stage charge bar and will drop 1-1/8 oz. of shot. Powder holes only are bored to accept bushings. It is mandatory that your order for bars includes both the series number and the weight of the shot charge. Powder bushings are selected by number from the Bushing Charts for Powder Manufacturers.

That is from MEC

[balyon85]

Originally Posted by BigD_in_FL

Where does THIS BS come from? The makers use the same hull with different shot sizes - that matters nothing. What DOES matter is using the PROPER wad to match the hull in question and they are not interchangeable between tapered and straight-walled hulls

Think it was more of a reference to not loading a larger shot load in a hull marked 8 bird shot so you don't mix them up and shoot trap with a box of 4 bird shot. Range might not be to happy.

[BigD_in_FL]

That's what a label on the box is for - I don't even use a label, just a sharpie with the charge or shot weight and since I went to one load in 12 and one in 20, even that is moot; but I DO mark the box so I do not grab it thinking I have a box of factory 1-1/8 in my hands only to find I have a box of my 3/4oz reloads - they work great but can get a little sparse on the 60 yard crossers during a sporting tournament........

[balyon85]

I mark mine too, but that's what came to mind when I read his statement. I need to experiment with different loads, I like to think my aim isn't the issue

[44-40]

get a used mec jr. off of ebay,aa win hulls once fired are easy to come by and better than most,get 5-7 reloads before primer pockets get to big and primers fall out in a magazine fed gun, not in a single,dbl, or overunder.mec does make a grabber press and a stand alone tool that squeezes the brass heads back down I assume this would also get the primer pocket,I have never used either.claybuster wads work just like win or rem and are 1/2 the cost.A lee cast slug or .690 round ball will go right in a shot cup, balls are easier to cast ,if you're not careful when dropping them out of the mould they will egg shape. I have a ton of lee stuff but wouldn't waste my time with their shotgun reloader unless you don't mind fooling around , it can be made to work so-so but mec is 1000% better

[BigD_in_FL]

mec does make a grabber press and a stand alone tool that squeezes the brass heads back down I assume this would also get the primer pocket,

No, it does not. The primer pocket will not increase unless you use metric primers from Fiocchi, Nobel, or Cheddite. The collet sizer squeezes the base while the sizing ring on the Jr just forces it back to factory specs. Either will do the job better than the Lee

[snuffy]

Skizzums, get the Lyman manual!!! It's considered by most shotshell loaders as the bible for shotgun loads. The front of the manual will have all the info you need to know BEFORE you buy ANYTHING to load shotshells.

The internet is great for specific info after you read that manual. You already have gotten some bad info on this thread which could cause problems.

The actual beginning of my reloading was a Lee hammer type loader for 8 MM Mauser ammo. BUT when I got home from the service, I began loading shotshells for ducks, pheasants, and bunnies. That was 1971, so there's a bit of experience for me.

The Lyman manual will have a section in it that shows pictures of many hull types, so you can recognize what you may pick up at a range. Then you can go to the data section in the back to match the hull with the load you want to make. Then, you either go to the gunshop with that exact recipe, buy the correct wads, primers, shot, and powder. If you can't find the exact components, you can't load that recipe. Ballistic products is a great source of components for shotshells. Especially specialty loads like slugs and non-toxic shot.

Oh, you can't mold your own shot, at least not the small stuff. Buckshot can be molded, Lee has a series of buckshot molds that cast a linked string of 3 buckshot in a 6 cavity mold. I have 3 of them, they work great!

There IS a shotmaker called IIRC the littleton. It dribbles molten lead through a certain sized plate for the various shot sizes.---FOUND IT!
http://www.littletonshotmaker.com/

[BigD_in_FL]

While many espouse only using a specific component, there ARE safe substitutions - most OEM wads have exact clones that are safe to use, many (not ALL) primers can be safely subbed as well - Win 209s can be subbed with Nobel Sports (except in cold weather you may have some issues), or Fiocchi 616, or even Cheddite 209 - that said, those are metric sized and can stretch a primer pocket just enough that you will need to stick with them afterwards. (Since they are a LOT cheaper that should not be a big deal). ALL Remington hulls use the same data, so using a Gun Club followed by a black hull, followed by a gold Nitro is just fine. Normally I would not advise any newbie to so any of that, but with today's component shortages, you might not have much choice, so know which ones are safe and which ones are not.

Do NOT waste your time with Winchester Universal, Super Speeds, Or any of the Euro trash straight-walled hulls

[pathdoc]

Get the Lyman manual before you do anything else. Read through it a lot.

I will defend the Lee Load-All II as perfect for the beginning shotshell reloader (at least in 12, 16 or 20Ga). MEC are excellent from what I hear, but NEVER have I been able to find the cheap secondhand ones everyone speaks of, at garage sales or elsewhere; and when I do, it's on Ebay and the postage quoted to where I live is somewhere between ludicrous and extortionate. After gnashing my teeth in frustration for months, I gave in and got the Lee brand new from Cabelas. With all its many and varied bushings, ready to go, straight out of the box. And the savings went into my first two bags of shot and wads.

[BigD_in_FL]

Ebay is the LAST place to look for a deal on a MEC, try looking at your local trap/skeet club - even post a WTB ad on the bulletin board there - THAT works the best

[papershotshells]

MEC does make excellent presses, but there is nothing wrong IMHO in starting out with a Lee Load All. I started with 3 of them (12,16,20), and though I have since moved onto Hornady presses, I still own and use the Lee presses once in a while. Anymore they mostly get used for odd loads or short runs of odd hulls, that saves me from changing the adjustments (or bushings) on my regular presses.

If you load a LOT of ammo, you WILL want a different press in the future, but I think the Lee Load All is well worth the modest cost, just to have around.

Papershotshells

[FrankenMauser]

I will defend the Lee Load-All II as perfect for the beginning shotshell reloader (at least in 12, 16 or 20Ga).

I will admit that I don't have any experience with the Load-All II, but I just can't bring myself to buy a reloading press that has a plastic base. I've read plenty of reviews on the "new" version, and they just don't hold up to the older version (as cheap as it may be).

The original Load-All resides in my reloading room, and gets the job done. But, with its "pot metal" base, I don't have to worry about the plastic bearing points wallowing out.

Advantage of a Load-All II.... warranty, if you buy it new; and a primer catch tray.
Disadvantage of a Load-All II... it's plastic, likes to crack, wallows out the bearing points, and isn't as stable when clamped or bolted to a bench.


If you decide to go with a Lee Load-All, get the old version, for half the price.

[JimDandy]

And to get back to the point about not being able to load as cheaply as the Walmart Value packs.

A) Those 4 and 8 pack value packs have gone the way of the 22LR here. Something out of stock cheaper than you can make your own doesn't count.

B) Those value packs are extremely limited. I believe there are only two choices, and you're luck if both are in there. And that choice is limited to shot size, 8 vs 9. You can't vary the Dram, shot size or shot load like you can loading your own. Newbies and Kids especially can benefit from a 7/8 load over a 1/8 load.

[Nathan]

Skizzums, welcome to the world of shotshell reloading!

I have a Lee Loadall and load less than 1000 shells per year. . .at this point. I got it from my dad to load slug loads.

I will tell you that the Lee is great in some ways. For a single caliber, it has all shot and powder bushings you will need for target and most hunting loads.

I load a #5 shot 12 ga squirrel load in Rem STS hulls which is great!

If you want to load steel, you will likely need a MEC or better.

To load slugs, I load Lyman Slugs in a Win 3" AA Hull. I do this because the Lyman slugs can be found online and I got a heck of a deal on some 3" Win AA Hulls. The included powder bushings are too small for these larger loads, so I use my Hornady Dispenser. It works fine for slugs. If I struggle with anything, it is crimp. My loads shoot as well as store bought slugs at 100 yards.

So, yes, the Lee works. Good luck.

I like the Lyman manual. It gives you lots of detail and loads from commonly available materials.

BPI's stuff is probably great, but it is a completely different system of hulls, primers, wads. . .Only powder and shot are interchangeable. It probably works great, but if you go down that road, you will be buying everything from them.

[BigD_in_FL]

A) Those 4 and 8 pack value packs have gone the way of the 22LR here. Something out of stock cheaper than you can make your own doesn't count.

Those Federal 4 packs are plenty around here, and price at over $7/box, the same as Gun Clubs (which are better ammo and reloadable). Even with shot at $53/bag, by using a 3/4oz 12 gauge recipe, my loads are still under $4/box. Those cheap Federal hulls are no better than the cheap Winchester Universals and not worth the hassle.

[BigJimP]

There is a reason MEC has a significant portion of the market on shotshell presses....and even the single stage MEC is a significant upgrade over the Lee press. If you take care of a MEC press ...down the road, you'll probably sell it for more than you paid new for it.

Resizing the brass cup on a hull is important...especially if you are shooting a semi-auto or a pump gun / so you don't end up with jams or cycling problems.

My 12ga reloads ...with 1 oz of shot ...are still around $ 4.25 a box / and I'm reloading a much higher quality shell than the cheaper promo loads from Estate, Wallmart, etc...

Take a serious look at the MEC Grabber model ....its a progressive press that manually indexes...they resize / and they're solid workhorses. The MEC Grabbers I purchased in the 80's ....have been cleaned up and passed down to one of my adult kids ...in both a 12ga and a 20ga....and he's loaded thousands of shells with it / after I upgraded to their hydraulic presses - and they'll live on for more generations / producing a very high quality shell.