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May 7, 2013, 06:19 PM | #51 |
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Concealed Carry with Punch
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1367968586.281365.jpg
After many rounds and many days carrying .40, 9mm, 357Sig, and 45acp... These are my always carry, with these inside: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1367968782.357044.jpg NEVER a malfunction with either. Just change the springs every 800 rounds or so to keep them that way. |
May 7, 2013, 06:26 PM | #52 |
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Just as a question, would you be able to consider an on-chair carry method? It seems to me, though I don't know what your chair looks like, that you could carry off-body but on the chair somewhere. S&W has even hired the first wheelchair-bound competitive shooter, and there is a company that has a line of competition holsters tailored to chairs. It seems that a larger firearm could be considered as well. I'm not in a wheelchair, though, and won't pretend that I know what I'm talking about. It's just a thought to entertain.
I'd go with a .40 over a .45 just because I have the equipment. I've carried everything from .38 to .45, and I haven't felt undergunned with any of them. .357s are an option, but the blast is nuts. I'd pick a .45 over a .357, as the .357 is roughly equal to the .45 on foot-pounds in hot loads in concealable weapons, but the .45 is a bit less harsh. I'd find a form that you like, pick a caliber, and then pack in something akin to the following: http://www.thewilderness.com/?p=catalog&parent=171&pg=1. http://www.scotworksllc.com/concealedpouch.html |
May 7, 2013, 06:28 PM | #53 |
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How about a judge loaded with buckshot?
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May 7, 2013, 06:39 PM | #54 |
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While I really like the sp101 2.25" barrel in 357, it doesn't have the round capacity I would prefer to carry. I want a bazillion rounds without having to reload. But since I can't have that, the 9mm and 40 cal carry between 14-17 rounds pending brand. I own a SR9 and a PX4 40 cal Type F, both in full size. The SR9 with stock grip felt more snappy than the PX4 40 cal using a Hogue HandAll. I was so impressed with the Hogue HandAll that I put it on my SR9 as well. They both shoot comfortably now. The rapid follow up shots are manageable on both guns. I was really surprised with the PX4 follow up shots in 40 cal. Then again, a person who shoots really well will do more damage w/ a 22 short than some of us w/ a 50 cal.
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May 8, 2013, 08:19 AM | #55 | |
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Plumnut wrote:
Quote:
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NRA Life Member USN Retired Last edited by Skadoosh; May 8, 2013 at 08:27 AM. |
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May 8, 2013, 08:48 AM | #56 |
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There's no issue with discussing gun shot wounds so long as the discussion remains "professional", in the sense that we do not glorify or take lightly the act of shooting people, even when it had to be done.
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May 8, 2013, 12:46 PM | #57 |
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Friend of mine I went to school worked at a funeral home that his family owned and still works there today. On many occasions I have visited and have seen the damage done by gunshot wounds first hand. The range shoot at has several surgeons that frequent the pistol range and we have discussed what they see in surgery and the outcomes and situations surrounding various gunshot wounds that they see. based on what I have sen and the discussions with these doctors I personally feel....and along with the Doctors that a .45 does more damage in general than a 9mm does.
I never took pictures(that would be disrespectful for my reasons) or never recorded the doctors conversations so if you want proof I cant provide that to you. And never claimed I could. There are alot of factors that go into stopping power and stopping power doesn't have to mean death. Remember than no one said you have to agree. Thats my experiences so make your own mind up for yourself.....ultimately it doesn't matter to me what you decide. |
May 8, 2013, 01:38 PM | #58 |
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My half brother was shot with a 9mm in the abdomen. It was a FMJ round and it dropped him.
He's 6'4 and 217 pounds. It went into his abdomen downward into the direction of his pelvis and just exited before it struck his pelvis and it dropped him. The reason it was going downward was due to an incorrect attempt to disarm one of the guys. He returned fire from the ground and they emptied their entire magazine into the ground around him, thankfully missing. One went down from his return in the exchange. He stayed down. The other fled and was later caught by local PD. Now... who wants to tell my brother how 9mm (even in FMJ) lacks any power? |
May 8, 2013, 02:13 PM | #59 |
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Concealed Carry with Punch
My thoughts on the previous statements is that a 22, even a short can kill or drop something or someone according to shot placement. I've had several friends shot with everything from 22's to shotguns point blank. A person I knew was hit once with a 22LR in the shoulder while driving and the round traveled to a artery in the neck. He drove to a fire station where he later died. Several others have been shot in leg with 22's. and just layed up a day or two. Another was shot point blank with a .357 HP shoved into his stomach and pined against a wall. He had alot of internal damage including losing a spleen. He recovered after a few weeks in hospital. Another with a 12 ga #6 shot 15 feet away and was fine after a week. They can all be deadly with ability to stop with right placement. As far as out and out stopping power if shot with 22 in the arm or leg, short of hitting a artery it's going to sting & burn like the dickens. Hit with the same round, same place with a .45 it may about blow your arm off or shatter a femur. A 9mm will diffidently do alot of damage and your half brother was lucky to survive.As well if it had been a 380, .40,.32,25,22, 38. If I had to be shot somewhere and had a choice of .45,.40,9mm I would chose the 9mm and keep my fingers crossed.
Last edited by Garycw; May 8, 2013 at 02:25 PM. |
May 8, 2013, 02:29 PM | #60 |
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^ Thank you for helping my point tremendously.
Yet the discussion of handgun bullets still surfaces daily. |
May 8, 2013, 02:42 PM | #61 |
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Trouble is, lots of folks think that personal experience is demonstrative of a larger trend.
The old saying goes, "Anecdote is not the singular of data." Technically inaccurate but the concept is true. Personal experience does not accurately predict outcomes on a large scale. One person being shot with "X" proves nothing except what happened to that one person. Many others have experiences that directly contradict that one. None are valid on their own. When you're discussing something with as many variables as getting shot, it takes a LOT of samples to draw any sort of valid conclusion. Very, very few ER/Trauma doctors will see enough in their entire careers to draw valid conclusions. Indeed, very few entire HOSPITALS will see enough gun shot victims in 20 years to draw valid, large scale conclusions. Alas, there is no convincing folks of this truth. I know folks that had an unreliable Honda, so they thinks Hondas are junk and folks who had a reliable Saturn who think Saturns are great. I know folks who shot deer with 12ga slugs and even .30-06 rifles who didn't recover the animal and think the cartridge is not enough for deer. I know folks who were in car accidents and told that if they'd worn a seatbelt they'd be dead, so they don't ever wear seatbelts again. On and on it goes.
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May 8, 2013, 02:50 PM | #62 |
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That's awesome, especially that last paragraph.
I said my story because I feel the following for proving .45 better than 9mm is larger. Again, I feel. Love both my .45's and 9mm's. They're so marginal in differences on what they're intended for once they leave the barrel that I don't see a need to pick apart little numbers in that aspect. However, follow up shots and which holds more bullets is what gets me picking and choosing. lol again, loved that last paragraph. |
May 8, 2013, 02:59 PM | #63 |
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magic caliber debate...doesn't it get old?
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May 8, 2013, 03:10 PM | #64 | |
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May 8, 2013, 03:12 PM | #65 |
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There is no magic handgun cartridge which will produce instantaneous stops 100% of the time regardless of where the bullet strikes. Hell, there's no rifle cartridge capable of doing that. And all the anecdotal stories really tell us is that bullets do unpredictable things when they meet human tissue - flesh, fat, muscle and bone. This is especially true in a real gunfight where the parties involved are rarely static and only infrequently presenting an easy hit to the desired center mass area. Some folks are shot within arms' reach or even closer, some are shot from much farther away. Some folks are shot when it's quite warm; others when it's frigid outside. All of these factors influence the human physiology and particularly so when an injury is suffered.
And let us consider, as well, that humans are not all made up of the same stuff in the same way. We are each unique, psychologically speaking, and that informs how we react in a moment of crisis - some folks just immediately fall down and quit the instant they realize they're shot, and others will keep fighting until their heart stops beating and their brains are starved for oxygen. No way to know which is which beforehand. Some folks with non-survivable wounds have stayed in the fight long after other folks with minor wounds went limp. My point? My point is only to (hopefully) get folks to realize and understand that there is no single answer. Wound ballistics is perhaps the most intractable science of all, because there is no baseline - no absolute basis on which to formulate a provable or disprovable hypothesis of any significance. There is no ethical or legal way to truly and realistically and repeatably simulate a real-world shooting of a living human being. As a consequence, wound ballistics has diverged into, roughly, two different fields - wound historians who study autopsy reports, medical records, and witness statements, and, on the other hand, the "gel junkies" who draw all their inferences from bullet performance in ballistics gelatin and other simulacra. So what are we left with? A very imperfect knowledge base and the somber reality that there is no one size fits all solution to the caliber conundrum. |
May 8, 2013, 03:22 PM | #66 |
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I think we can all agree that overall a 45 has more Potential to do damage than a 9mm anyone who thinks other wise is just not wanting to see and there is no convincing them. I am sure there are hundreds of examples where a 9mm did the trick and hundreds where a 45 did not.
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May 8, 2013, 03:33 PM | #67 | |
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May 8, 2013, 04:23 PM | #68 |
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If you want punch 357 mag model 60 S/W would be my suggestion.
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May 8, 2013, 04:51 PM | #69 |
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“I am a wheelchair user interested in concealed carry. As I am always seated I cannot conceal a large gun - but I want a single stack compact with punch. ….I am trying to decide between .40 & .45 and leaning toward the Springfield XDS. Concerned that the XDS in .45 only holds 5 rounds (plus 1, probably 6 plus 1 in .40). Constructive opinions or criticism regarding model or caliber very much appreciated.” [gamorris]
Either an XDs or a compact 45 ACP 1911 from a reputable manufacturer, (ie Colt, Springfield Armory, Kimber, Sig, STI) and since you can’t run, and your gun might jam or be disabled somehow, would suggest a BUG on the ankle, say a Charter Arms 44 Spl, they are not much larger than a J-frame. Best to you.
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May 8, 2013, 07:32 PM | #70 | |||||
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May 8, 2013, 07:59 PM | #71 | |
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May 8, 2013, 09:13 PM | #72 | |||
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Quote:
Shot-for-identical-shot (placement) the bigger more powerful rounds will do more damage. Will that extra damage matter? Thats anyone's guess, but at least the odds are in the shooters favor. I wouldn’t tell your brother the 9mm lacks power, but I am curious whether or not he feels a little lucky that it wasn’t a .40 or .45? (^ keep that in the context intended, of course no one feels lucky about being shot, it’s a question of appreciating the lesser of evils) Quote:
Only when secondary variables such as recoil, follow-ups and multiple holes enter into the discussion does 9mm gain some ground. Folks, this particular thread shouldn’t be a caliber war because the OP's needs are a little different than ours... I'll parrot him one more time... Quote:
I'm a big fan of the 40, but using his criteria I'd select the XDs 45 first, followed by the Shield in 40 second, mostly because he can load the XDs with 45+p for the first chambered round. He stands a equal chance of getting a good hit with 9mm, 40 or 45 in his first shot, I believe that 45+p offers him the best chance of stopping his attackers forward progress above the others, except 10mm. I don't think that any single 9mm in any of its variants, +p+ or otherwise, will inflict as much damage under identical first shot circumstances as a quality 45+p. |
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May 9, 2013, 01:10 AM | #73 |
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While we are back on target, I want to bring up the issue of firing from an unsecured wheelchair. How is that going to impact follow up shots?
OP, or someone else who carries from a wheelchair, have you fired a weapon from your chair without the brakes on? What have you fired, and how did they work for you? |
May 9, 2013, 08:11 AM | #74 | |
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Re: Concealed Carry with Punch
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May 9, 2013, 09:39 AM | #75 |
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Moved to next page
Last edited by Dashunde; May 9, 2013 at 09:46 AM. |
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