springfield falling block?

fubsy · February 9, 2000, 06:32 PM

Harley, Im not real sure were to put this but I ran accross this rifle this morning and its the finest one Ive ever run accross, its a 45-70 springfield all original including bayonet and scabard and the bayonet is pristine, the scabard shows a little wear but thats it....the wood is really good and the patina on the breech area is right, the cartouche on the stock is 1889...this rifle would be shootable i believe its really impressive....Im not posting this for information just if anyone would like this sort of thing its at a shop near me and the guy wants $1000 for it...it has the ramrod as well....fubsy.

Harley Nolden · February 9, 2000, 08:29 PM

FUGSY:
I don't mind it being posted here as it has some real history. There is a possiblity that it may get some takers if it were put in the for sale section. There is and iteresting history behind this rifle, as it is originally known as the Rider, after the inventor

RIDER
Other Names: Remington Rolling Block
Remington Rider
Mfg: E. Remington & Sons
Ilon Ny
DENMARK:

Model: 1867
Mfg: Remington & Sons
Year of Mfg: 1867-70
Quantity: 40,450

Gevaerfabrik, Kjonbenhaven
1870-88
Quantity: 80,000 Exclude conversions
Caliber: 11.7X51mm Rimmed
Action: Radial Block
Length: 1,280mm
Weight: 4.20kg
Barrel Length: 907mm
Groove: 5 RH concentric
M-Velocity: 375m/sec W/1867 Ball ctg

The rolling block breech, developed from the earlier split breech pattern credited to Leonard Geiger, was the subject of patents granted to Joseph Rider in the late 1860's. The essence of the
system lay in an interlock between a sturdy hammer and the radial breech piece.

The US Army did not view the rolling blocks with any enthusiasm, foreign governments ordering more. Denmark ordered substantial numbers of the rifles and carbines in a ;year in which the Rider breech received a silver medal from the Paris Exposition.

Remington ton claimed sales of 16,500 rifles and carbines and pistils to the US Army, 23,000 to the Navy 15,000 model 1871 Locking rifles to New :Your State and 5,000 rifle musket
conversions to South Carolina. Among export orders 75,000 rifles and carbines supplied to Spain for fuse in Cuba, begining in 1867 and 30,000 guns; for Sweden from 1868 forward.

Differing patterns advertised were the .50 caliber, US Model 1871, .58 Caliber springfield rifle muskets, long and short, the .43 or llmm caliber Spanish Remington or Russian, .43 Caliber
Civil Guard model and the .43 French model chambered for the Egyptian Cog. these models were also made in the .43 and .50 caliber carbines.

Military weapons were also made for Denmark, caliber 8X58mm rimmed, and a carbine in the same caliber as the 1887 Infantry rifle. Egypt also purchased the Rider in caliber 11.43X50mm
rimmed in 1868, with Mexico purchasing 10,000 in caliber 7X57mm rimless. Norway purchased 5,800 in 1867 in caliber 12.17mm
rimmed, and 8X58mm rimmed cartridge.

Spain Purchased the American rifle, carbine, version, (spanish Remington) in 1870 caliber 11X58mm rimmed. Subsequent purchases by Spain were affected in 1871 for the Royal body guard rifle, infantry rifles, short rifles and carbines.

HJN

[This message has been edited by Harley Nolden (edited February 09, 2000).]

James K · February 10, 2000, 05:55 AM

Hi, Fubsy,

Are you sure about the "falling block"? The rifle sounds like a "trapdoor" Springfield, in which the breech opens up and forward, not straight down like the Ruger No. 1, which is a falling block action.

Harley thinks you might mean a "rolling block" in which the breech opens by cocking the hammer and "rolling" the breechblock to the rear. So a little more information would be helpful.

Jim

fubsy · February 10, 2000, 07:11 AM

Jim,
I think your right,,,,,,I was planning on calling this morning cause of that very concern that I might have misrepresented the rifle.........it does opens from the top, does not drop like a ruger........I saw way too many old rifles yesterday and it obviously clowded my judgement....Ill call today and verify......I kid you not that rifle is immaculate for one of that age.... apparently the old boy that owns it has many and is getting to old to mess with em (according to the counter guy)....he brought in several hi-dollar rifles and has them on consignment....fubsy.

February 9, 2000, 06:32 PM	#1
fubsy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 1999 Posts: 1,363	Harley, Im not real sure were to put this but I ran accross this rifle this morning and its the finest one Ive ever run accross, its a 45-70 springfield all original including bayonet and scabard and the bayonet is pristine, the scabard shows a little wear but thats it....the wood is really good and the patina on the breech area is right, the cartouche on the stock is 1889...this rifle would be shootable i believe its really impressive....Im not posting this for information just if anyone would like this sort of thing its at a shop near me and the guy wants $1000 for it...it has the ramrod as well....fubsy.

February 9, 2000, 08:29 PM	#2
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	FUGSY: I don't mind it being posted here as it has some real history. There is a possiblity that it may get some takers if it were put in the for sale section. There is and iteresting history behind this rifle, as it is originally known as the Rider, after the inventor RIDER Other Names: Remington Rolling Block Remington Rider Mfg: E. Remington & Sons Ilon Ny DENMARK: Model: 1867 Mfg: Remington & Sons Year of Mfg: 1867-70 Quantity: 40,450 Gevaerfabrik, Kjonbenhaven 1870-88 Quantity: 80,000 Exclude conversions Caliber: 11.7X51mm Rimmed Action: Radial Block Length: 1,280mm Weight: 4.20kg Barrel Length: 907mm Groove: 5 RH concentric M-Velocity: 375m/sec W/1867 Ball ctg The rolling block breech, developed from the earlier split breech pattern credited to Leonard Geiger, was the subject of patents granted to Joseph Rider in the late 1860's. The essence of the system lay in an interlock between a sturdy hammer and the radial breech piece. The US Army did not view the rolling blocks with any enthusiasm, foreign governments ordering more. Denmark ordered substantial numbers of the rifles and carbines in a ;year in which the Rider breech received a silver medal from the Paris Exposition. Remington ton claimed sales of 16,500 rifles and carbines and pistils to the US Army, 23,000 to the Navy 15,000 model 1871 Locking rifles to New :Your State and 5,000 rifle musket conversions to South Carolina. Among export orders 75,000 rifles and carbines supplied to Spain for fuse in Cuba, begining in 1867 and 30,000 guns; for Sweden from 1868 forward. Differing patterns advertised were the .50 caliber, US Model 1871, .58 Caliber springfield rifle muskets, long and short, the .43 or llmm caliber Spanish Remington or Russian, .43 Caliber Civil Guard model and the .43 French model chambered for the Egyptian Cog. these models were also made in the .43 and .50 caliber carbines. Military weapons were also made for Denmark, caliber 8X58mm rimmed, and a carbine in the same caliber as the 1887 Infantry rifle. Egypt also purchased the Rider in caliber 11.43X50mm rimmed in 1868, with Mexico purchasing 10,000 in caliber 7X57mm rimless. Norway purchased 5,800 in 1867 in caliber 12.17mm rimmed, and 8X58mm rimmed cartridge. Spain Purchased the American rifle, carbine, version, (spanish Remington) in 1870 caliber 11X58mm rimmed. Subsequent purchases by Spain were affected in 1871 for the Royal body guard rifle, infantry rifles, short rifles and carbines. HJN [This message has been edited by Harley Nolden (edited February 09, 2000).]

February 10, 2000, 05:55 AM	#3
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, Fubsy, Are you sure about the "falling block"? The rifle sounds like a "trapdoor" Springfield, in which the breech opens up and forward, not straight down like the Ruger No. 1, which is a falling block action. Harley thinks you might mean a "rolling block" in which the breech opens by cocking the hammer and "rolling" the breechblock to the rear. So a little more information would be helpful. Jim

February 10, 2000, 07:11 AM	#4
fubsy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 1999 Posts: 1,363	Jim, I think your right,,,,,,I was planning on calling this morning cause of that very concern that I might have misrepresented the rifle.........it does opens from the top, does not drop like a ruger........I saw way too many old rifles yesterday and it obviously clowded my judgement....Ill call today and verify......I kid you not that rifle is immaculate for one of that age.... apparently the old boy that owns it has many and is getting to old to mess with em (according to the counter guy)....he brought in several hi-dollar rifles and has them on consignment....fubsy.