FL to NC

cbuck · July 4, 2011, 10:01 PM

I have an uncle that lives in florida and has offered to give me his last non glock handgun that he has. I live in north carolina and have my ccw here. my question is what is the easiest way to transfer the ownership of this handgun legally from him to me. ill be going down there in a couple of weeks so it would be great if we could just do a FTF transfer with a simple bill of sale or something but my biggest question is how to do this without any unwanted legal repercussions. any help is appreciated

**Mal H** · July 4, 2011, 10:10 PM

You can't do a FTF in FL if you aren't a resident. I don't see how you can get around him having to ship it to an FFL in NC for you to pick up there after doing all the paperwork.

baddarryl · July 4, 2011, 10:20 PM

Verify this, but my NC CCW instructor told me that you could ship the frame in one package and the slide, barrel assembly in another and be legal to use the Post Office. No need to actually register guns in NC and since you have a CCW permit, no need to get a purchase permit from your county either. Bill of Sale would suffice.

saands · July 4, 2011, 10:34 PM

It is surprising to me how many people in the firearms industry (including FFL's) do NOT know the rules. Many think that no matter where you live, you can always gift a firearm to a relative ... this is NOT the case. Mal H has it correct. As far as I know, there are ONLY two ways that a resident of one state can take possession of a handgun from in another state:

1) The recipient is an FFL of a type appropriate for the arm in question (03 if it is C&R, 01 otherwise)
2) The firearm was bequeathed to the recipient and the original owner has passed away.

Within your own state of residence, the rules of your state apply, but between states, your own state's rules only make it more difficult, never any easier. Sorry if this isn't the news you wanted to hear.

For the record:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...2----000-.html

It shall be unlawful—
(1) for any person—
(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, ... to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce;...

...shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State...

Sevens · July 4, 2011, 10:58 PM

Any FFL can simply use the post office to ship a handgun. But only FFL's can use the post office. Your uncle needs to take the handgun to an FFL who will agree to ship it for a fee -- and he needs to ship it to an FFL on your end who has agreed to accept it and transfer it to you. This will cost a fee as well.

There's only ONE more round-about way I can think of that is still legal.

Uncle GIVES the handgun to some Florida resident.
That resident elects to move to NC, taking the handgun with him.
He gives it to you.

Of course, that doesn't consider NC laws (I'm not familiar with them) That would be 100% legal where I live.

cbuck · July 4, 2011, 11:12 PM

thanks for he thelp guys, i was figuring me just driving down to pick it up would be too easy, guess we will both be talking to our local ffl dealers this week

**Mal H** · July 4, 2011, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddarryl

my NC CCW instructor told me that you could ship the frame in one package and the slide, barrel assembly in another and be legal to use the Post Office.

If you are quoting him accurately, then your CCW instructor has suggested a good way to commit a felony.

**JohnKSa** · July 4, 2011, 11:42 PM

Absolutely correct. There is one major component of every gun that is actually the gun for legal purposes. It's typically the part of the gun that has the serial number on it and is called the receiver.

You can take all the parts off the receiver and transfer them any way you choose, but the receiver is a firearm for legal purposes and it must be transferred via the methods prescribed by federal law even if it has no parts assembled to it.

There is no legal way to skirt the requirement for involving an FFL in an interstate firearms transfer between two living persons.

dogtown tom · July 4, 2011, 11:52 PM

Quote:

baddarryl Verify this, but my NC CCW instructor told me that you could ship the frame in one package and the slide, barrel assembly in another and be legal to use the Post Office....

Felony.
A firearm frame is still a firearm. Doesn't matter if it's assembled or disassembled.
ONLY licensed dealers and manufacturers can ship firearms other than rifles or shotguns through the USPS. Mere mortals can mail ony rifles and shotguns.

Quote:

Sevens Any FFL can simply use the post office to ship a handgun. But only FFL's can use the post office....

Close.
USPS regulations do not use the term "FFL", only referring to "licensed dealer" & "licensed manufacturer". This excludes an 03FFL (Collector of curios & relics) from mailing or receiving by mail anything other than an eligible rifle or shotgun.

Quote:

Sevens There's only ONE more round-about way I can think of that is still legal.
Uncle GIVES the handgun to some Florida resident.
That resident elects to move to NC, taking the handgun with him.
He gives it to you.
Of course, that doesn't consider NC laws (I'm not familiar with them) That would be 100% legal where I live.

Uh, no. That would be an interstate transfer of a firearm. As the firearm was never actually intended to be the possession of the person moving.

MLeake · July 5, 2011, 12:35 AM

What I don't get, is the lengths some people would theoretically go to in order to avoid a $30-$60 dollar transaction fee and $20-$40 shipping fee.... at risk of committing a felony.

Check out gunbroker.com, for its FFL search function. You can find FFLs who will conduct transfers at both ends of the shipment, with their fees and contact info.

Typical FFL transfer fees run $15-$30. Assuming an FFL at both ends, $30-$60. FFL (dealers) can ship using USPS; combining his transfer fee with his shipping fee (service he provides for an additonal charge, with an outbound transfer) costs the same as or less than shipping to an FFL via FedEx, and saves me the drive to the airport location.

So, it's not that expensive, and is often easier than arranging some other theoretical shipment method.

**Aguila Blanca** · July 5, 2011, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddarryl

Verify this, but my NC CCW instructor told me that you could ship the frame in one package and the slide, barrel assembly in another and be legal to use the Post Office. No need to actually register guns in NC and since you have a CCW permit, no need to get a purchase permit from your county either. Bill of Sale would suffice.

That would be a Federal felony. The frame is a firearm. Handguns in interstate transfers MUST be transferred through an FFL in the recipient's state of residence.

Also, since the frame is a firearm, it is illegal for anyone other than an FFL to send a handgun frame through the mail. Now you're up to TWO Federal felonies.

baddarryl · July 5, 2011, 09:18 AM

Ok boys. As I said VERIFY this. The CCW instructor that told me this only back in March had impressive credentials. Former police chief, FBI firearms instructor etc. It is very possible I misunderstood what he said and therefore I did advise to verify this. I do know in NC the OP's CCW license gets him around having to get a permit for it. Normally in NC to get a pistol transferred to you from an FFL you have to get a purchase permit. I had to do this once to obtain a gun I already owned that had been stolen from me! Sorry for the bad info guys. That's why we should verify everything on the net.

Is it still true that if the OP can just drive to Fla do an official bill of sale (or proper paperwork) and then just bring it back without going through the FFL system? As I said, you still don't have to "register" a firearm in NC so this seems logical to me.

Doyle · July 5, 2011, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Is it still true that if the OP can just drive to Fla do an official bill of sale (or proper paperwork) and then just bring it back without going through the FFL system?

No. Go re-read the law. INTERSTATE SALES OF HANDGUNS MUST GO THROUGH AN FFL IN THE PURCHASER'S STATE OF RESIDENCE.

baddarryl · July 5, 2011, 10:46 AM

Ok, thanks Doyle.

blume357 · July 7, 2011, 07:34 AM

Why could not the Original Poster do this>...

first find an FFL in N.C. that would agree to this:

Find out what that N.C. FFL will need along with the pistol to do a transfer, such as letter with copy of uncle's FL drivers License and signature in blue or red (what my FFL requires)... and of course cost to do a transfer. Many FFLs will accept and transfer a gun that is shipped by a private seller, some won't, mine in S.C. will)

So, once you find an FFL who will accept a gun from a private individual... why could not the original poster also be the shipper? Saving a goodly amount of money by just transporting the pistol back to N.C. and then to the FFl who will do the transfer?

I'm sure there is some kind of rule about why you can't do this, but I can't find it. No different than if the Uncle drove up from Florida and they did the transfer with both of them at a N.C. FFL.

dogtown tom · July 7, 2011, 12:20 PM

Quote:

blume357 So, once you find an FFL who will accept a gun from a private individual... why could not the original poster also be the shipper? Saving a goodly amount of money by just transporting the pistol back to N.C. and then to the FFl who will do the transfer?

Because the OP is not a resident of Florida. If he takes possession....even to ship, he commits a Federal crime. His uncle, or another Florida resident would need to do the actual shipping.

Quote:

I'm sure there is some kind of rule about why you can't do this, but I can't find it.

ATF.gov has all the pertinent Federal laws relating to firearms.
The ATF Firearms FAQ has answers to common questions. Here's the one specifically for nonlicensees: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html

Quote:

No different than if the Uncle drove up from Florida and they did the transfer with both of them at a N.C. FFL.

No, it's completely different......if the Uncle drives to NC to do the transfer through a NC licensed dealer there is no illegal transfer of a firearm.

oneounceload · July 7, 2011, 12:45 PM

could not the uncle always drive up to NC with his gun, and go to the local FFL with his nephew and conclude the transfer there?

dogtown tom · July 7, 2011, 07:21 PM

Quote:

oneounceload could not the uncle always drive up to NC with his gun, and go to the local FFL with his nephew and conclude the transfer there?

Yep.....again.

July 4, 2011, 10:01 PM	#1
cbuck Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2011 Location: NC Posts: 141	FL to NC I have an uncle that lives in florida and has offered to give me his last non glock handgun that he has. I live in north carolina and have my ccw here. my question is what is the easiest way to transfer the ownership of this handgun legally from him to me. ill be going down there in a couple of weeks so it would be great if we could just do a FTF transfer with a simple bill of sale or something but my biggest question is how to do this without any unwanted legal repercussions. any help is appreciated

July 4, 2011, 10:58 PM	#5
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Any FFL can simply use the post office to ship a handgun. But only FFL's can use the post office. Your uncle needs to take the handgun to an FFL who will agree to ship it for a fee -- and he needs to ship it to an FFL on your end who has agreed to accept it and transfer it to you. This will cost a fee as well. There's only ONE more round-about way I can think of that is still legal. Uncle GIVES the handgun to some Florida resident. That resident elects to move to NC, taking the handgun with him. He gives it to you. Of course, that doesn't consider NC laws (I'm not familiar with them) That would be 100% legal where I live. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

July 4, 2011, 11:42 PM	#8
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,972	Absolutely correct. There is one major component of every gun that is actually the gun for legal purposes. It's typically the part of the gun that has the serial number on it and is called the receiver. You can take all the parts off the receiver and transfer them any way you choose, but the receiver is a firearm for legal purposes and it must be transferred via the methods prescribed by federal law even if it has no parts assembled to it. There is no legal way to skirt the requirement for involving an FFL in an interstate firearms transfer between two living persons. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

July 4, 2011, 10:10 PM	#2
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,949	You can't do a FTF in FL if you aren't a resident. I don't see how you can get around him having to ship it to an FFL in NC for you to pick up there after doing all the paperwork.

July 4, 2011, 10:20 PM	#3
baddarryl Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2011 Location: Cape Fear! Posts: 1,683	Verify this, but my NC CCW instructor told me that you could ship the frame in one package and the slide, barrel assembly in another and be legal to use the Post Office. No need to actually register guns in NC and since you have a CCW permit, no need to get a purchase permit from your county either. Bill of Sale would suffice.

July 4, 2011, 10:34 PM	#4
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	It is surprising to me how many people in the firearms industry (including FFL's) do NOT know the rules. Many think that no matter where you live, you can always gift a firearm to a relative ... this is NOT the case. Mal H has it correct. As far as I know, there are ONLY two ways that a resident of one state can take possession of a handgun from in another state: 1) The recipient is an FFL of a type appropriate for the arm in question (03 if it is C&R, 01 otherwise) 2) The firearm was bequeathed to the recipient and the original owner has passed away. Within your own state of residence, the rules of your state apply, but between states, your own state's rules only make it more difficult, never any easier. Sorry if this isn't the news you wanted to hear. For the record: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...2----000-.html It shall be unlawful— (1) for any person— (A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, ... to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce;... ...shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State...

July 4, 2011, 11:12 PM	#6
cbuck Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2011 Location: NC Posts: 141	thanks for he thelp guys, i was figuring me just driving down to pick it up would be too easy, guess we will both be talking to our local ffl dealers this week

July 5, 2011, 12:35 AM	#10
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	What I don't get, is the lengths some people would theoretically go to in order to avoid a $30-$60 dollar transaction fee and $20-$40 shipping fee.... at risk of committing a felony. Check out gunbroker.com, for its FFL search function. You can find FFLs who will conduct transfers at both ends of the shipment, with their fees and contact info. Typical FFL transfer fees run $15-$30. Assuming an FFL at both ends, $30-$60. FFL (dealers) can ship using USPS; combining his transfer fee with his shipping fee (service he provides for an additonal charge, with an outbound transfer) costs the same as or less than shipping to an FFL via FedEx, and saves me the drive to the airport location. So, it's not that expensive, and is often easier than arranging some other theoretical shipment method.

July 5, 2011, 09:18 AM	#12
baddarryl Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2011 Location: Cape Fear! Posts: 1,683	Ok boys. As I said VERIFY this. The CCW instructor that told me this only back in March had impressive credentials. Former police chief, FBI firearms instructor etc. It is very possible I misunderstood what he said and therefore I did advise to verify this. I do know in NC the OP's CCW license gets him around having to get a permit for it. Normally in NC to get a pistol transferred to you from an FFL you have to get a purchase permit. I had to do this once to obtain a gun I already owned that had been stolen from me! Sorry for the bad info guys. That's why we should verify everything on the net. Is it still true that if the OP can just drive to Fla do an official bill of sale (or proper paperwork) and then just bring it back without going through the FFL system? As I said, you still don't have to "register" a firearm in NC so this seems logical to me.

July 5, 2011, 10:46 AM	#14
baddarryl Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2011 Location: Cape Fear! Posts: 1,683	Ok, thanks Doyle.

July 7, 2011, 07:34 AM	#15
blume357 Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2005 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 3,943	Why could not the Original Poster do this>... first find an FFL in N.C. that would agree to this: Find out what that N.C. FFL will need along with the pistol to do a transfer, such as letter with copy of uncle's FL drivers License and signature in blue or red (what my FFL requires)... and of course cost to do a transfer. Many FFLs will accept and transfer a gun that is shipped by a private seller, some won't, mine in S.C. will) So, once you find an FFL who will accept a gun from a private individual... why could not the original poster also be the shipper? Saving a goodly amount of money by just transporting the pistol back to N.C. and then to the FFl who will do the transfer? I'm sure there is some kind of rule about why you can't do this, but I can't find it. No different than if the Uncle drove up from Florida and they did the transfer with both of them at a N.C. FFL.

July 7, 2011, 12:45 PM	#17
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	could not the uncle always drive up to NC with his gun, and go to the local FFL with his nephew and conclude the transfer there?