Trigger finger where?

kesserman · December 22, 2005, 05:59 PM

Is there a difference between keeping your index finger 'straight' along the frame

or

Is it okay to let your wrap around the outside of the trigger guard?

Anytime I see the guys in Iraq, their finger is straight along the frame. Is there a tactical advantage as opposed to curving it around the outside of the guard? (assuming their fingers are long enough)

I'm assuming straight because you have to make the conscious effort to bend your finger to manipulate the trigger.

Trying to build the right form.

Thanks

stevelyn · December 22, 2005, 06:29 PM

The Alaska DPS Academy teaches finger extended high along the slide.
As a certified police firearms instructor teaching the same curriculum, I teach the same thing.

craigntx · December 22, 2005, 06:45 PM

on the f'n trigger
it takes a conscious effort to PULL THE TRIGGER

its a GLOCK... not a `1911

tjhands · December 22, 2005, 06:53 PM

Craigntx, not sure if you are serious or not. In a combat situation (war, home defense, whatever) if you think it always takes a CONSCIOUS effort to pull a trigger - Glock or otherwise - you have another thing coming.
Picture yourself walking down the hallway in the dark after hearing a bump in the night. Your finger is on the trigger and the gun is at the ready. You are scared and your adrenal glands are practically squirting their juice into your system. Your daughter suddenly jumps out in front of you to ask what is going on. What you'll likely experience is an unconscious trigger pull, a bang, and a dead child.

Again, I wasn't sure if you were joking or not.........

craigntx · December 22, 2005, 07:17 PM

no daughter, chicks back in bed

if i had a house fulla rugrats, things might be diff.

miconoakisland · December 22, 2005, 07:37 PM

I press my index finger hard into the side of the trigger guard with my first (closest to the tip) knuckle bent. It takes nothing to get it on the trigger, but it is not enough to actually pull it, and it takes up most of the slack, but my finger is on the trigger and ready if I need to bend the middle knuckle.

Now, I am not in Iraq, where I am patrolling for hours either. This is the method I use for discerning yes or no targets at the range and for "bump in the night" occassions.

Look at just about anyone "patrolling" with a rifle and I would guess the finger is along the frame and not wrapped aroung the trigger guard. My guess is because you'd be jumpy enough and on edge and that's the way they were taught and it is easier to see by everyone else that you are carrying safely and that your finger isn't on the trigger!

FWIW

OneInTheChamber · December 22, 2005, 07:41 PM

Straight finger, it seems more natural to me.

Craigntx: I thank God I don't live in your house. I hope you consider being more safe; I'd rather give up .25 a sec. to a BG than shoot someone I didn't want to.

Chase

craigntx · December 22, 2005, 08:15 PM

ive seen your pic
you aint sexy enough to live here

pax · December 22, 2005, 08:23 PM

kesserman ~

Train yourself to keep your trigger finger straight and touching the frame above the trigger guard.

The reason for this is that if your finger is resting on the trigger guard and you trip, slip, or are startled by something, your entire hand, including your trigger finger, will reflexively clench shut.

If your trigger finger is in line with the trigger when that happens, you're at a high risk for an ND. But if it is above the trigger, and already firmly against the frame, you're a lot less likely to have a startle-reflex ND.

pax

kesserman · December 22, 2005, 08:32 PM

PAX.....

Sold!

Thanks

USP45usp · December 22, 2005, 09:25 PM

Here are some pics. Please excuse the house, I'm single (and that IS my excuse!

):

And yes, I hold the guns this way every time that I hold them, this was not done for "see, I follow the rules". If it were, I wouldn't have taken them while the house was this dirty

.

Wayne

*Oh: Top picture FM 9mm
Bottom picture, new Taurus I just bought today: M85UL .38spl

azurefly · December 22, 2005, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigntx

no daughter, chicks back in bed
if i had a house fulla rugrats, things might be diff.

Wow. It seems to me that you regard yourself as outside the scope of all the traditional training admonitions that we get handed down through the generations. "Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire." I'm sure that practice has saved countless lives. I'm also pretty sure that they arrived at that being one of the Big Four for a very good reason.

Do you really feel you are above doing things the safe way? Are you infallible or something?

-azurefly

threefivesevenmag · December 22, 2005, 09:49 PM

Finger along slide, higher position. Pax said it best.

Avoid NDs at all costs. Stay safe. It's not a joking matter, even without children.

shep854 · December 22, 2005, 09:49 PM

Massad Ayoob teaches a third finger set: trigger finger curved and pressed against the frame above the trigger (sort of like what miconoakisland described). His rationale is that this provides leverage against a gun grab, and is quicker to the trigger if necessary.

miconoakisland · December 27, 2005, 02:38 AM

Dang Wayne!

If we see much more of that "dirty" house in those pics my girl's gonna make me vacuum!

springmom · December 27, 2005, 11:14 AM

[quote]on the f'n trigger
it takes a conscious effort to PULL THE TRIGGER
[quote]

The sound you hear is the hysterical laughter coming from Spring, Texas. Who are you KIDDING? Did you even READ that (now thankfully LOCKED) thread about the ND my idjit Youngest Son had???? Do you think that was conscious effort? No...it was STUPID. And every human being on the planet is capable of being STUPID. That's why you keep your finger OFF the "f'n trigger".

The four rules are great but I still think the best one is found in somebody's sig line:

keep your finger off the trigger
keep your finger off the @#$#@$ trigger
keep your @$@#$@ finger off the @#$@#$@ trigger....

For everybody's sake! Yours, girlfriend's, next-door neighbors....

If a load of Sure-Shot heavy dove load can go through our CEILING, our ROOF, and sprinkle itself around the yard, what do you think a round from your Glock will do when, not if, you trip, sneeze, cough, are surprised, or something else startling, and you are holding it with your finger on the trigger?

And some of you guys wondered why I posted our ND experience. It is so people could hopefully LEARN that you can't be too careful....

Springmom the amazed

XLT · December 27, 2005, 11:37 AM

Quote:

you aint sexy enough to live here

Uhh...are we talking about the same Galveston here? Sexy and Galveston don't belong in the same sentence without a superlative negation.

Steve in PA · December 27, 2005, 05:20 PM

"Massad Ayoob teaches a third finger set: trigger finger curved and pressed against the frame above the trigger (sort of like what miconoakisland described). His rationale is that this provides leverage against a gun grab, and is quicker to the trigger if necessary."

Oh please, this guy farts and people run around thinking he's the greatest.

How is having the tip of the finger instead of the whole finger, better leverage???

Placing the trigger finger anywhere on the trigger guard is a disaster waiting to happen. It is way too easy for your finger to slip and be in cocntact with the trigger. Try it sometime, how easy is it for your finger to move as compared to being pressed against the frame/slide? Where is your finger going to go when its along the frame/slide? Now where.

gddyup · December 27, 2005, 05:23 PM

On target, On trigger.

Off target, OFF trigger!

As Pax mentioned, having your trigger finger on the side of the slide or frame reduces the possibility of reflexing your finger into the trigger. Having the trigger finger out front of the guard puts it directly in line with the trigger and could result in a discharge if you were to fall, get spooked, sneeze, whatever. Side of the slide is probably the best place for that finger unless you are on target and ready to fire.

shep854 · December 28, 2005, 12:57 AM

Massad Ayoob's contention is that rigger so pressed gives more leverage against twisting a gun away than a straight finger.

stratus · December 28, 2005, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigintx

on the f'n trigger
it takes a conscious effort to PULL THE TRIGGER

its a GLOCK... not a `1911

You're the only one in this room professional enough to handle the "glock .40" right?

I only ask because I've seen people say that just before they shot themselves in the foot with it - maybe you know what I'm talking about. Anyway, I highly doubt that person was making a conscious effort to that effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XLT

Uhh...are we talking about the same Galveston here? Sexy and Galveston don't belong in the same sentence without a superlative negation.

Unless you have a thing for the Portuguese Man-of-war. Then it's a utopia.

pax · December 28, 2005, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shep854

Massad Ayoob's contention is that rigger so pressed gives more leverage against twisting a gun away than a straight finger.

Which is true, as far as it goes. I've seen & participated in the demonstration, and he convinced me -- if someone is trying to grab your gun, you've probably got a lot more leverage to retain the gun if your finger is bent than if it is straight. And getting it grabbed that way hurts less, too.

However. If my gun is out and someone is reaching to grab it, you know where I want my trigger finger to be? I'll give you a hint: it ain't on the frame no more.

pax

Para Bellum · December 28, 2005, 03:20 AM

Poke your trigger finger straight and hard into your opponents eye and the day is yours!

So much for serious comments.

stratus · December 28, 2005, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Para Bellum

Poke your trigger finger straight and hard into your opponents eye and the day is yours!

LOL. Ammo saver mode.

Ozzieman · December 28, 2005, 05:44 AM

The main one is that when you pull with your trigger finger some people can not stop pulling with there other finger and if its on the front of the trigger guard it will pull the gun of aim.
I forget what the term used for this is but its somthing like "Memory trigger" somthing like that. For some this is a problem for others its not.
The best thing is to choose what feels best and what works best.
For me the weak hand index is always on the front of the guard.

December 22, 2005, 05:59 PM	#1
kesserman Member Join Date: December 6, 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 75	Trigger finger where? Is there a difference between keeping your index finger 'straight' along the frame or Is it okay to let your wrap around the outside of the trigger guard? Anytime I see the guys in Iraq, their finger is straight along the frame. Is there a tactical advantage as opposed to curving it around the outside of the guard? (assuming their fingers are long enough) I'm assuming straight because you have to make the conscious effort to bend your finger to manipulate the trigger. Trying to build the right form. Thanks

December 22, 2005, 06:29 PM	#2
stevelyn Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: Fairbanksan in exile to Aleutian Hell Posts: 2,655	The Alaska DPS Academy teaches finger extended high along the slide. As a certified police firearms instructor teaching the same curriculum, I teach the same thing. __________________ Stop Allowing Our Schools To Be Soft Targets! http://fastersaveslives.org/ East Moose. Wear Wolf.

December 22, 2005, 06:53 PM	#4
tjhands Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2005 Posts: 1,718	Craigntx, not sure if you are serious or not. In a combat situation (war, home defense, whatever) if you think it always takes a CONSCIOUS effort to pull a trigger - Glock or otherwise - you have another thing coming. Picture yourself walking down the hallway in the dark after hearing a bump in the night. Your finger is on the trigger and the gun is at the ready. You are scared and your adrenal glands are practically squirting their juice into your system. Your daughter suddenly jumps out in front of you to ask what is going on. What you'll likely experience is an unconscious trigger pull, a bang, and a dead child. Again, I wasn't sure if you were joking or not......... __________________ "If the sole purpose of handguns is to kill people, then mine are all defective." - Uncle Ted Nugent

December 22, 2005, 07:41 PM	#7
OneInTheChamber Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2005 Posts: 789	Straight finger, it seems more natural to me. Craigntx: I thank God I don't live in your house. I hope you consider being more safe; I'd rather give up .25 a sec. to a BG than shoot someone I didn't want to. Chase __________________ Insert witty, comical, and/or significant quote here.

December 22, 2005, 08:23 PM	#9
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	kesserman ~ Train yourself to keep your trigger finger straight and touching the frame above the trigger guard. The reason for this is that if your finger is resting on the trigger guard and you trip, slip, or are startled by something, your entire hand, including your trigger finger, will reflexively clench shut. If your trigger finger is in line with the trigger when that happens, you're at a high risk for an ND. But if it is above the trigger, and already firmly against the frame, you're a lot less likely to have a startle-reflex ND. pax __________________ Kathy Jackson My personal website: Cornered Cat

December 22, 2005, 06:45 PM	#3
craigntx Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2005 Location: galveston tx Posts: 249	on the f'n trigger it takes a conscious effort to PULL THE TRIGGER its a GLOCK... not a `1911

December 22, 2005, 07:17 PM	#5
craigntx Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2005 Location: galveston tx Posts: 249	no daughter, chicks back in bed if i had a house fulla rugrats, things might be diff.

December 22, 2005, 07:37 PM	#6
miconoakisland Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2005 Location: Oak Island, NC Posts: 134	I press my index finger hard into the side of the trigger guard with my first (closest to the tip) knuckle bent. It takes nothing to get it on the trigger, but it is not enough to actually pull it, and it takes up most of the slack, but my finger is on the trigger and ready if I need to bend the middle knuckle. Now, I am not in Iraq, where I am patrolling for hours either. This is the method I use for discerning yes or no targets at the range and for "bump in the night" occassions. Look at just about anyone "patrolling" with a rifle and I would guess the finger is along the frame and not wrapped aroung the trigger guard. My guess is because you'd be jumpy enough and on edge and that's the way they were taught and it is easier to see by everyone else that you are carrying safely and that your finger isn't on the trigger! FWIW

December 22, 2005, 08:15 PM	#8
craigntx Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2005 Location: galveston tx Posts: 249	ive seen your pic you aint sexy enough to live here

December 22, 2005, 08:32 PM	#10
kesserman Member Join Date: December 6, 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 75	PAX..... Sold! Thanks

December 22, 2005, 09:25 PM	#11
USP45usp Junior member Join Date: May 17, 2000 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 3,427	Here are some pics. Please excuse the house, I'm single (and that IS my excuse! ): And yes, I hold the guns this way every time that I hold them, this was not done for "see, I follow the rules". If it were, I wouldn't have taken them while the house was this dirty . Wayne *Oh: Top picture FM 9mm Bottom picture, new Taurus I just bought today: M85UL .38spl

December 22, 2005, 09:49 PM	#13
threefivesevenmag Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2005 Posts: 406	Along Slide. Finger along slide, higher position. Pax said it best. Avoid NDs at all costs. Stay safe. It's not a joking matter, even without children.

December 22, 2005, 09:49 PM	#14
shep854 Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2004 Location: Birmingham AL Posts: 632	Massad Ayoob teaches a third finger set: trigger finger curved and pressed against the frame above the trigger (sort of like what miconoakisland described). His rationale is that this provides leverage against a gun grab, and is quicker to the trigger if necessary. __________________ Powder smoke- The Smell of FREEDOM! I don't shoot to kill; I shoot to live. Registration? NEVER!!

December 27, 2005, 02:38 AM	#15
miconoakisland Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2005 Location: Oak Island, NC Posts: 134	Dang Wayne! If we see much more of that "dirty" house in those pics my girl's gonna make me vacuum!

December 27, 2005, 11:14 AM	#16
springmom Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2005 Location: Houston area Posts: 1,823	you have GOT to be kidding....! [quote]on the f'n trigger it takes a conscious effort to PULL THE TRIGGER [quote] The sound you hear is the hysterical laughter coming from Spring, Texas. Who are you KIDDING? Did you even READ that (now thankfully LOCKED) thread about the ND my idjit Youngest Son had???? Do you think that was conscious effort? No...it was STUPID. And every human being on the planet is capable of being STUPID. That's why you keep your finger OFF the "f'n trigger". The four rules are great but I still think the best one is found in somebody's sig line: keep your finger off the trigger keep your finger off the @#$#@$ trigger keep your @$@#$@ finger off the @#$@#$@ trigger.... For everybody's sake! Yours, girlfriend's, next-door neighbors.... If a load of Sure-Shot heavy dove load can go through our CEILING, our ROOF, and sprinkle itself around the yard, what do you think a round from your Glock will do when, not if, you trip, sneeze, cough, are surprised, or something else startling, and you are holding it with your finger on the trigger? And some of you guys wondered why I posted our ND experience. It is so people could hopefully LEARN that you can't be too careful.... Springmom the amazed __________________ I will not be a victim home on the web: www.panagia-icons.net (my webpage) www.nousfromspring.blogspot.com (Orthodoxy) "I couldn't hear you. Stop firing the gun while you're talking!" Frank Drebin, The Naked Gun

December 27, 2005, 05:20 PM	#18
Steve in PA Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 1999 Location: Northeastern PA Posts: 756	"Massad Ayoob teaches a third finger set: trigger finger curved and pressed against the frame above the trigger (sort of like what miconoakisland described). His rationale is that this provides leverage against a gun grab, and is quicker to the trigger if necessary." Oh please, this guy farts and people run around thinking he's the greatest. How is having the tip of the finger instead of the whole finger, better leverage??? Placing the trigger finger anywhere on the trigger guard is a disaster waiting to happen. It is way too easy for your finger to slip and be in cocntact with the trigger. Try it sometime, how easy is it for your finger to move as compared to being pressed against the frame/slide? Where is your finger going to go when its along the frame/slide? Now where. __________________ Steve

December 27, 2005, 05:23 PM	#19
gddyup Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2005 Location: Derry, NH Posts: 219	On target, On trigger. Off target, OFF trigger! As Pax mentioned, having your trigger finger on the side of the slide or frame reduces the possibility of reflexing your finger into the trigger. Having the trigger finger out front of the guard puts it directly in line with the trigger and could result in a discharge if you were to fall, get spooked, sneeze, whatever. Side of the slide is probably the best place for that finger unless you are on target and ready to fire. __________________ Firefighter/EMT - Currently teamed on Engine 1... I always get to play with my Knob! "Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from poor judgement" - Unknown. "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." - Robert A. Heinlein

December 28, 2005, 12:57 AM	#20
shep854 Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2004 Location: Birmingham AL Posts: 632	Massad Ayoob's contention is that rigger so pressed gives more leverage against twisting a gun away than a straight finger. __________________ Powder smoke- The Smell of FREEDOM! I don't shoot to kill; I shoot to live. Registration? NEVER!!

December 28, 2005, 03:20 AM	#23
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,882	in the eye Poke your trigger finger straight and hard into your opponents eye and the day is yours! So much for serious comments. __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

December 28, 2005, 05:44 AM	#25
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	There are reasions for not placing it in front of the trigger guard The main one is that when you pull with your trigger finger some people can not stop pulling with there other finger and if its on the front of the trigger guard it will pull the gun of aim. I forget what the term used for this is but its somthing like "Memory trigger" somthing like that. For some this is a problem for others its not. The best thing is to choose what feels best and what works best. For me the weak hand index is always on the front of the guard.