Reading list? Sorry for the length

saands · August 20, 2000, 10:29 PM

Background: I have been a shooter and a hunter for at least 20 years and I practice enough to stay reasonably competent at the range (4-5 inch handgun groups at the 50' line). In the back of my mind I have always known that any of my weapons could be drawn if need arose, but I would hate like hell to make a mistake in one of those scenarios. A few weeks ago, some idot mistook my house for another at 3:00 am and was pounding (no ... not knocking!) on the door and ringing the doorbell. I didn't want to deal with him and to complicate things we had company that night. I found myself in one of those situations where I hadn't trained or prepared a response. I immediatlely called 911 ... but the wait (probably less than 5 minutes) seemed interminable. I realized that the local police were only going to come by and clean up the mess if the guy had violent intentions ... like mistaking my house for the house of his wife's lover ...
Anyway, it turned out that he was looking for a party not his wife and all ended peacefully. Sorry for the length, but I tyhink that the context was pertinent.

My questions:

1. Are there any recommendable books that deal with preparing for scenarios like this ... in particular the scenario of having to defend yourself and your family ... I commend the police on their promptness ... but they aren't able to arrive anywhere instantly ... and that's just that.

2. Have people ever posted small jpeg's of floor plans on TFL for strategic comments from the group. It might be enlightening to critique some.
Thanks for the input that I'm sure will come,
Bil

Art Eatman · August 20, 2000, 11:53 PM

A couple of physical preparations that might be useful: One is some sort of outside light which isn't readily reached by such an outsider whose intent might be bad. Light outside, dark inside = Good Thing.

The other would be being able to see who's there, and what's going on. I don't care for the peephole dealies, as only a cooperative person stands right in front. Mount a mirror in front of a window in a room off to the side of the front door. Set at a 45-degree angle, it would allow a much better view of the area around the front door.

It's a beginning,

Art

Ivanhoe · August 21, 2000, 12:26 AM

saands, the first two books I recommend are "The Truth About Self-Protection" and "In the Gravest Extreme", both by Massad Ayoob. The first is a broad-brush overview of self-defense issues; the technology is obsolete, but the principles are timeless. Ayoob uses some rather shocking info to shake the reader out of the "TV denial" mindset and think about some of the harsh realities of street crime. The second book goes into the legal and psychological ramifications of self-defense. The legal stuff is critical because in many jurisdictions you are more at risk from the DA than from the criminal, so it is essential to understand when you can and can't use deadly force in self-defense.

RH · August 22, 2000, 09:44 AM

Hate to give you a hard time when you obviously know you made some boo-boos, but...

"I didn't want to deal with him "

That's exactly the attitude we as self-reliant individuals should fight against. Not knowing the layout of your home, would it have been possible to at least shout a challenge (who are you, what do you want) through the closed door without putting yourself in harm's way ? You could've possibly saved the cops the trouble of rushing to a 911 call.

Who knows, the guy could've been your neighbor telling you your garage is on fire, or needing your help with a medical emergency, or any number of legitimate urgent needs.

ctdonath · August 22, 2000, 11:17 AM

In The Gravest Extreme - The primary textbook on armed self-defense.
Principles of Self Defense - Defines the defender's mindeset.
The Martial Artist's Book Of Five Rings - Proper translation of the warrior's way.
The Art of the Rifle - THE book on using a rifle; principles are applicable to handgun defense.

These are required reading.

saands · August 22, 2000, 01:00 PM

RH: Valid points ... Perfect I am not! But I figure, life is a learning journey. Thanks for the input.
Saands

STRIDER · August 22, 2000, 11:13 PM

Sun Tzu "The Art of War". HTH

M1911 · August 23, 2000, 10:13 AM

I second Ayoob's books: "In the Gravest Extreme" and "The Truth About Self Protection." Also "The Law of Self Defense" by Andrew Branca.

In that situation, I would:

1) get my gun.
2) call 911.
3) get into a position covering the door and yell through the door that "The police are on the way. I am armed. Do not come through the door. If you come through the door, I will shoot." While saying this, I would have the cordless phone next to me, so that the police dispatcher could hear me warning him.

If he makes a "violent and tumultuous" entry after I have already warned him, then I would reasonably expect my life to be in danger and would fire.

YMMV, IANAL, and this isn't legal advice.

Jared

Dave D · August 23, 2000, 10:28 AM

Not much to add to the previous suggestions for reading material except one: Strong On Defense, by Sanford Strong.

saands · August 23, 2000, 12:25 PM

Well ... as expected, a couple of days has brought the requested info and a little extra input. Thanks to all.
Saands

LawDog · August 23, 2000, 12:28 PM

I can't believe that no one mentioned No Second Place Winner by Bill Jordan.

LawDog

August 20, 2000, 10:29 PM	#1
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	Background: I have been a shooter and a hunter for at least 20 years and I practice enough to stay reasonably competent at the range (4-5 inch handgun groups at the 50' line). In the back of my mind I have always known that any of my weapons could be drawn if need arose, but I would hate like hell to make a mistake in one of those scenarios. A few weeks ago, some idot mistook my house for another at 3:00 am and was pounding (no ... not knocking!) on the door and ringing the doorbell. I didn't want to deal with him and to complicate things we had company that night. I found myself in one of those situations where I hadn't trained or prepared a response. I immediatlely called 911 ... but the wait (probably less than 5 minutes) seemed interminable. I realized that the local police were only going to come by and clean up the mess if the guy had violent intentions ... like mistaking my house for the house of his wife's lover ... Anyway, it turned out that he was looking for a party not his wife and all ended peacefully. Sorry for the length, but I tyhink that the context was pertinent. My questions: 1. Are there any recommendable books that deal with preparing for scenarios like this ... in particular the scenario of having to defend yourself and your family ... I commend the police on their promptness ... but they aren't able to arrive anywhere instantly ... and that's just that. 2. Have people ever posted small jpeg's of floor plans on TFL for strategic comments from the group. It might be enlightening to critique some. Thanks for the input that I'm sure will come, Bil

August 20, 2000, 11:53 PM	#2
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	A couple of physical preparations that might be useful: One is some sort of outside light which isn't readily reached by such an outsider whose intent might be bad. Light outside, dark inside = Good Thing. The other would be being able to see who's there, and what's going on. I don't care for the peephole dealies, as only a cooperative person stands right in front. Mount a mirror in front of a window in a room off to the side of the front door. Set at a 45-degree angle, it would allow a much better view of the area around the front door. It's a beginning, Art

August 21, 2000, 12:26 AM	#3
Ivanhoe Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1998 Location: Virginia Posts: 412	saands, the first two books I recommend are "The Truth About Self-Protection" and "In the Gravest Extreme", both by Massad Ayoob. The first is a broad-brush overview of self-defense issues; the technology is obsolete, but the principles are timeless. Ayoob uses some rather shocking info to shake the reader out of the "TV denial" mindset and think about some of the harsh realities of street crime. The second book goes into the legal and psychological ramifications of self-defense. The legal stuff is critical because in many jurisdictions you are more at risk from the DA than from the criminal, so it is essential to understand when you can and can't use deadly force in self-defense.

August 22, 2000, 09:44 AM	#4
RH Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 1999 Posts: 532	Hate to give you a hard time when you obviously know you made some boo-boos, but... "I didn't want to deal with him " That's exactly the attitude we as self-reliant individuals should fight against. Not knowing the layout of your home, would it have been possible to at least shout a challenge (who are you, what do you want) through the closed door without putting yourself in harm's way ? You could've possibly saved the cops the trouble of rushing to a 911 call. Who knows, the guy could've been your neighbor telling you your garage is on fire, or needing your help with a medical emergency, or any number of legitimate urgent needs.

August 22, 2000, 11:17 AM	#5
ctdonath Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 1999 Posts: 1,904	In The Gravest Extreme - The primary textbook on armed self-defense. Principles of Self Defense - Defines the defender's mindeset. The Martial Artist's Book Of Five Rings - Proper translation of the warrior's way. The Art of the Rifle - THE book on using a rifle; principles are applicable to handgun defense. These are required reading.

August 22, 2000, 01:00 PM	#6
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	RH: Valid points ... Perfect I am not! But I figure, life is a learning journey. Thanks for the input. Saands

August 22, 2000, 11:13 PM	#7
STRIDER Member Join Date: March 12, 2000 Location: Prescott, Arizona Posts: 58	Sun Tzu "The Art of War". HTH

August 23, 2000, 10:13 AM	#8
M1911 Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2000 Posts: 4,055	I second Ayoob's books: "In the Gravest Extreme" and "The Truth About Self Protection." Also "The Law of Self Defense" by Andrew Branca. In that situation, I would: 1) get my gun. 2) call 911. 3) get into a position covering the door and yell through the door that "The police are on the way. I am armed. Do not come through the door. If you come through the door, I will shoot." While saying this, I would have the cordless phone next to me, so that the police dispatcher could hear me warning him. If he makes a "violent and tumultuous" entry after I have already warned him, then I would reasonably expect my life to be in danger and would fire. YMMV, IANAL, and this isn't legal advice. Jared

August 23, 2000, 10:28 AM	#9
Dave D Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2000 Location: Northern California Posts: 126	Not much to add to the previous suggestions for reading material except one: Strong On Defense, by Sanford Strong.

August 23, 2000, 12:25 PM	#10
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	Well ... as expected, a couple of days has brought the requested info and a little extra input. Thanks to all. Saands

August 23, 2000, 12:28 PM	#11
LawDog Staff Emeritus Join Date: September 15, 1999 Location: Where am I going? Why am I in this handbasket? Posts: 4,194	I can't believe that no one mentioned No Second Place Winner by Bill Jordan. LawDog