460 Dies

BoogieMan · February 18, 2013, 08:10 AM

Are 460S&W the same as 45 rimmed and 454 Casull?
Will unchecked lead bullets work? I plan to stick with the Hornady bullet initially but I would like some options especially for loading down. Range loads I want to keap the 460 case and just run less charge rather than shoot LC or Casull and risk leading the cylinder.

buck460XVR · February 18, 2013, 08:18 AM

I use RCBS .460 dies, but I know of others that use .454 dies. Leading, like when reloading for other calibers depends more on bullet fit than anything else. What you will find tho, that if you load down too far, your POI will change dramatically. My PC X-Frame is pleasant enough to shoot that I very seldom use reduced loads in it anymore, and thus I don't have to mess with the sights.

BoogieMan · February 18, 2013, 10:28 AM

Good point about POI. It would only stand to reason that if you slow the bullet down it will drop much more over a given distance.
What is your experience with 45lc through the XVR? I know accuracy is an issue, but is leading that big of an issue. i know that my wife, daughter, friends wife etc will all want to shoot the "big gun". I dont want a $1500 gun flying through the air or smacking one of them in the 4-head. If I can get away with buying a box or 2 of LC to cover that it would probably be better anyway. Less chance of handing them a gun with a full strength Mag load.

Gdawgs · February 18, 2013, 01:28 PM

I have a BFR in 460, not a Smith, but I have found that accuracy with 45 Colt and 454 rounds isn't very good. So now I only shoot 460 brass. I have various hot loads that work well using Hornady 240 gr XTP mag bullets. Then for plinkers I load up 255 gr lead bullets with Trail Boss powder in 460 brass. I clocked those at 1,100 fps. No leading problems.

Contrary to what makes sense, the slower bullets actually shoot higher than full power loads. At close distances anyway, say less than 50 yds. Haven't been able to wrap my brain around that one yet.

So my recommendation is to just pick up a set of 460 dies and stick with 460 brass. Skip 45 Colt and 454 Casull brass. You cannot reload 454 or 45 Colt with 460 dies.

BoogieMan · February 18, 2013, 05:48 PM

Sage advise, thank you. I found a set of RCBS full length size and roll crimp dies on eBay. I should have them in hand soon. All the normal suppliers I use are out. I found Federal large rifle primers at LGS today so I bought the box of 1000 for $45 and 2 boxes of Hornady 200gr 460. So at least I have 40 pcs of brass after I shoot. Now I just have to find bullets and powder which may require a bit of a search.

codefour · February 18, 2013, 06:38 PM

Quote:

[So my recommendation is to just pick up a set of 460 dies and stick with 460 brass. Skip 45 Colt and 454 Casull brass. You cannot reload 454 or 45 Colt with 460 dies.

I second that. The 454 dies are too short for the longer 460 brass.

I only use 460 brass. For plinking, I use 19-20 (IIRC) grains of Power Pistol with a standard Rifle Primer. This is using a .452 MBC 300 grain bullet. Check the Alliant website. See what works accurately in your 460. It's good for 1300-1400 fps. It is a very manageable load.

BoogieMan · February 19, 2013, 07:32 AM

I have the Lymann book only at this point and it shows all the lead bullets with gas check. Are ther loads available without a gas check?

Gdawgs · February 19, 2013, 08:02 AM

You won't need gas checks when using Trail Boss.

buck460XVR · February 19, 2013, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Contrary to what makes sense, the slower bullets actually shoot higher than full power loads. At close distances anyway, say less than 50 yds. Haven't been able to wrap my brain around that one yet.

Has to do with barrel dwell and recoil. Slower bullets spend more time in the barrel thus allowing it to recoil upward a tad more before the bullets exit than when using faster bullets......thus they print higher.

Quote:

I dont want a $1500 gun flying through the air or smacking one of them in the 4-head.

My Compensated Hunter is more pleasant to shoot with factory 200 grainers than my EDC .38 snubby with +p loads. My youngest son has shot it since he was just a wisp of a thing at age 13 with legitimate .460 loads. If you don't feel obligated to buy the hottest loads Buffalo Bore makes, others familiar with shooting handguns, will not have a problem shooting your .460. Unless you cast your own, cost of reloading components is similar whether you shoot powder puff loads or start level .460 loads. My experience is that even start level .460 loads are more accurate than .45 Colt or reduced recoil Trail-boss loads. I prefer to shoot a few less quality loads than a bunch of lower recoil, inaccurate loads that you either have to adjust the sights or use Kentucky windage. YMMV.

BoogieMan · February 20, 2013, 08:37 AM

@Buck460XVR- Do you have some favorite starting 460 loads that you will share recipe or point me to the book/resource they came from?
Off subject- Are you using a scope or irons? If scope which one?

Gdawgs · February 20, 2013, 08:12 PM

I put a scope on my BFR. In the research I did on scopes, for 460 and 500, you want to stick with either a Burris or Leupold. I read several stories of other brands getting shredded pretty quickly. One guy tore up 2 or 3 Nikons(which were covered under warranty), then switched to either a Burris or Leopold, and never had any problems after that. Another trick I saw was to use three scope rings if possible.

I put a Leupold M8 on mine. Here's a pic. Note the triple scope ring mount.

BoogieMan · February 20, 2013, 08:38 PM

I looked at the BFR and to be honest I thought it would be to much to handle in a SA style grip. I was skeeered.
But thanks for the scope info. I am going between the Leopold VX & FX series. I also considered the Bushnell Elite. The Bushnell is a little 2oz lighter and both are endorsed by S&W. I am torn between making my own rings and using the Warne mounts from S&W (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...layErrorView_N)
I like the black scope on the BFR, nice contrast.

TMD · February 20, 2013, 09:39 PM

Something else to consider and so far hasn't been mentioned is the shell holder needed for the .460mag. Even though its just a stretched .45/.454 the cartridge rim on the .460 is actually thicker. With some brass a .45/.454 shell holder will work but but with most I found that it wont.

Oh and my old wrist buster load was a 395gn LFPGC loaded with 37grains of Lil'Gun. FYI, hold on with both hands

February 18, 2013, 08:10 AM	#1
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	460 Dies Are 460S&W the same as 45 rimmed and 454 Casull? Will unchecked lead bullets work? I plan to stick with the Hornady bullet initially but I would like some options especially for loading down. Range loads I want to keap the 460 case and just run less charge rather than shoot LC or Casull and risk leading the cylinder. __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown

February 18, 2013, 10:28 AM	#3
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	Good point about POI. It would only stand to reason that if you slow the bullet down it will drop much more over a given distance. What is your experience with 45lc through the XVR? I know accuracy is an issue, but is leading that big of an issue. i know that my wife, daughter, friends wife etc will all want to shoot the "big gun". I dont want a $1500 gun flying through the air or smacking one of them in the 4-head. If I can get away with buying a box or 2 of LC to cover that it would probably be better anyway. Less chance of handing them a gun with a full strength Mag load. __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown

February 18, 2013, 05:48 PM	#5
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	Sage advise, thank you. I found a set of RCBS full length size and roll crimp dies on eBay. I should have them in hand soon. All the normal suppliers I use are out. I found Federal large rifle primers at LGS today so I bought the box of 1000 for $45 and 2 boxes of Hornady 200gr 460. So at least I have 40 pcs of brass after I shoot. Now I just have to find bullets and powder which may require a bit of a search. __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown

February 19, 2013, 07:32 AM	#7
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	I have the Lymann book only at this point and it shows all the lead bullets with gas check. Are ther loads available without a gas check? __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown

February 20, 2013, 08:37 AM	#10
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	@Buck460XVR- Do you have some favorite starting 460 loads that you will share recipe or point me to the book/resource they came from? Off subject- Are you using a scope or irons? If scope which one? __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown

February 18, 2013, 08:18 AM	#2
buck460XVR Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2006 Posts: 4,342	I use RCBS .460 dies, but I know of others that use .454 dies. Leading, like when reloading for other calibers depends more on bullet fit than anything else. What you will find tho, that if you load down too far, your POI will change dramatically. My PC X-Frame is pleasant enough to shoot that I very seldom use reduced loads in it anymore, and thus I don't have to mess with the sights.

February 18, 2013, 01:28 PM	#4
Gdawgs Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2009 Location: MN Posts: 656	I have a BFR in 460, not a Smith, but I have found that accuracy with 45 Colt and 454 rounds isn't very good. So now I only shoot 460 brass. I have various hot loads that work well using Hornady 240 gr XTP mag bullets. Then for plinkers I load up 255 gr lead bullets with Trail Boss powder in 460 brass. I clocked those at 1,100 fps. No leading problems. Contrary to what makes sense, the slower bullets actually shoot higher than full power loads. At close distances anyway, say less than 50 yds. Haven't been able to wrap my brain around that one yet. So my recommendation is to just pick up a set of 460 dies and stick with 460 brass. Skip 45 Colt and 454 Casull brass. You cannot reload 454 or 45 Colt with 460 dies.

February 19, 2013, 08:02 AM	#8
Gdawgs Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2009 Location: MN Posts: 656	You won't need gas checks when using Trail Boss.

February 20, 2013, 08:12 PM	#11
Gdawgs Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2009 Location: MN Posts: 656	I put a scope on my BFR. In the research I did on scopes, for 460 and 500, you want to stick with either a Burris or Leupold. I read several stories of other brands getting shredded pretty quickly. One guy tore up 2 or 3 Nikons(which were covered under warranty), then switched to either a Burris or Leopold, and never had any problems after that. Another trick I saw was to use three scope rings if possible. I put a Leupold M8 on mine. Here's a pic. Note the triple scope ring mount.

February 20, 2013, 08:38 PM	#12
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	I looked at the BFR and to be honest I thought it would be to much to handle in a SA style grip. I was skeeered. But thanks for the scope info. I am going between the Leopold VX & FX series. I also considered the Bushnell Elite. The Bushnell is a little 2oz lighter and both are endorsed by S&W. I am torn between making my own rings and using the Warne mounts from S&W (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/w...layErrorView_N) I like the black scope on the BFR, nice contrast. __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown

February 20, 2013, 09:39 PM	#13
TMD Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2011 Posts: 1,293	Something else to consider and so far hasn't been mentioned is the shell holder needed for the .460mag. Even though its just a stretched .45/.454 the cartridge rim on the .460 is actually thicker. With some brass a .45/.454 shell holder will work but but with most I found that it wont. Oh and my old wrist buster load was a 395gn LFPGC loaded with 37grains of Lil'Gun. FYI, hold on with both hands