Tunnel weapons?

LASur5r+P · December 24, 2001, 01:55 AM

If you were in Afghanistan and assigned to search the tunnels and caves, what weapons and tools would you choose to help you do your task?

SamH · December 24, 2001, 02:01 AM

A reliable submachine gun, preferably single-hand capable, such as MP5K, UZI, MAC10.

MAGLITE (night-vision would be nice too).

A reliable pistol, preferably high-cap, eg. Glock 17.

Level II or IIIA vest. Any lighter means no protection, any heavier means too much loss of movement.

A good multi-tool. A Swiss Army Knife or a Leatherman.

Of course, I'm assuming that I am working in a team of three or four others.

yorec · December 24, 2001, 02:48 AM

MP5 (whichever the model number is for the 10mm) silenced with a good tac light and laser
Glock 20 also with a good weapon light

K9 - he'll find defenders unerringly and if booby traps seem unlikely (or is that likely?), send in the dog first!

Body armor is a great idea, but I want level III+ armor and helmet. They will be using rifles to defend and II and IIIA won't do much...

Several companions armed similarly and/or with flamethrowers to light up dark spots!

A couple cases of grenades and flashbangs each - use one around every corner!

Yep, I'm a little cautious, must be why they don't want me for this job...

Hey wait a minute - I thought we were using those big midair burst bombs to search the caves with. If it works, why fix it?

KSFreeman · December 24, 2001, 10:51 AM

The best weapon around--a SEAL Team. "There you go, guys. If you need anything, let me know."

Fred Hansen · December 24, 2001, 10:55 AM

Vx Gas

BIGSLOWHEAVY · December 24, 2001, 04:31 PM

Geraldo! Think of him as a modern day canary.

T.Labren · December 24, 2001, 07:41 PM

A highly trained canine would be my point man along with the above fire power..

Navy joe · December 24, 2001, 08:40 PM

I think if you must go in it's silenced subguns and pistols. Rocks and rifle rounds would be a little ricochet problem, grenades would damage the user almost as much as the target from contained blast pressure. NVGs with IR illum wouldn't hurt either.

From the sucess through superior engineering department I think of the VC tunnel problem. One solution that did not involve some hapless soldier with a pistol was to use a red devil blower and copious quanities of powdered CS. I know if the entrance sloped down and I didn't care about evidence I'd order up a tanker full of gasoline and open the taps. The flamethrower thing was I hope a joke, think user induced oxygen deprivation for all involved.

Then you could always send Rosie O in there. A few hours later all inside would either surrender or shoot themselves.

yorec · December 25, 2001, 03:27 AM

Yep Navy Joe, nearly my whole post was a joke. How come you didn't laugh?

The best serious idea is that of KSFreeman - send in the professionals with whatever toys they desire. I ain't going.

Quartus · December 25, 2001, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Geraldo! Think of him as a modern day canary.

Let 'im sing!

But Rosie? Isn't that cruel and unusual?

Forget all that. WWII Earthquake bomb, slightly updated with Teflon exterior and modern metalurgy and explosives. If they could get 90 feet of penetration from a Lancaster bomber at 10,000 feet back then, I think we could find a way to carry one on a B-52 or C-5 and deliver it from a little higher up.

If we can't, we oughta quit.

BIGSLOWHEAVY · December 25, 2001, 04:00 PM

Nuther one.

Radical militant "in your face" FemiNazi's armed only with a bullhorn. Their incoherent rantings would cause any taliban in the caves to turn their guns on themselves.

Also, my snow removal technique comes to mind. It's a WWII flamethrower.

Double Naught Spy · December 26, 2001, 12:18 AM

Just as a note, night vision isn't going to be much help in caves unless there is a light source of some sort, such is the IR lights that you can get for that purpose. The problem is that night vision doesn't actually allow you to see in the dark. What you may perceive while outside as dark is actually quite illuninated by moon and star light. Many nocturnal animals such as cats see quite well in the "dark," only it isn't all that dark for them. Night vision simply amplifies the light available. Inside a cave, after a few corners, there may be no ambient light to work with. That is why cavers don't bring along night vision gear.

I am not sure how great a flash bang would be in comparison to throwing a real grenade. If you are going to risk being close enough to through a grenade, why not make it one that will actually do harm to the enemy.

As far as grenades doing harm to the good guys as well as bad guys, caution must be used. As they discovered in WWII and in Nam, grenades can be used effectively in caves when there are major obstructions such as dual corners. In fact, the Cong specifically built such corners in to their cave system to shield occupants not in the immediate blast zone.

If one plans to go into a cave environment with noisy weapons, a definite piece of safety equipment needed would be muffs, ideally electronic muffs that would shield the wearer from hearing damage, yet allow the wearer to hear after the noise stops. Shooting in an indoor range with sound dampening materials on the walls is still much louder than shooting outside. Now imagine there being no sound dampening in a confined area composed of rock. Hearing damage would most certainly be a problem.

LoneStranger · December 26, 2001, 07:50 AM

Like I said in a previous post.
Go to Radio Shack and buy a bunch of those remote controlled small vehicles.
On half of them you mount a small camera and microphone. Send it in ahead of you to look and listen. ***Note that this allows you to keep your very delicate body out of harms way. ***
On the other half you can mount small fuel/air explosive devices.

If someone inside shoots or attacks bang their cage then send the next pair of robots in.

We are tool users so lets try using them. Remember, tools don't cry or bleed.

Kharn · December 26, 2001, 08:03 AM

USAS-12 with lots of buckshot and slugs and a few dogs for me.

Kharn

ankara36 · December 26, 2001, 11:29 AM

Hillary Clinton in lingerie. They would eventually drown in their own vomit.

Salt · December 26, 2001, 07:29 PM

Chopped down Browning A5 12ga shotgun with magazine extension. Lots of #6 birdshot and some "00" buckshot rounds.

Para-Ordinance P-14 .45 pistol w/ suppressor

Fairbain-Sykes commando knife

knee pads, elbow pads, kevlar, and ear muffs

Maglight flashlight

Leatherman multi tool

Quartus · December 27, 2001, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Hillary Clinton in lingerie.

HEY! THIS BOARD HAS SOME STANDARDS, YA KNOW! FOUL LANGUAGE IS NOT PERMITTED!!!!

:barf:

Please, have some mercy on your fellow TFLers! Visual images can be a terrible thing!

No. No! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Don't even MENTION Janet Reno in that context!!!!

OBIWAN · December 27, 2001, 05:36 PM

I kinda like the Russian method

Diesel Fuel and a match

December 24, 2001, 01:55 AM	#1
LASur5r+P Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2001 Location: soCal,Republic of Posts: 111	Tunnel weapons? If you were in Afghanistan and assigned to search the tunnels and caves, what weapons and tools would you choose to help you do your task? __________________ proud to be an American.

December 24, 2001, 02:48 AM	#3
yorec Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 2,328	MP5 (whichever the model number is for the 10mm) silenced with a good tac light and laser Glock 20 also with a good weapon light K9 - he'll find defenders unerringly and if booby traps seem unlikely (or is that likely?), send in the dog first! Body armor is a great idea, but I want level III+ armor and helmet. They will be using rifles to defend and II and IIIA won't do much... Several companions armed similarly and/or with flamethrowers to light up dark spots! A couple cases of grenades and flashbangs each - use one around every corner! Yep, I'm a little cautious, must be why they don't want me for this job... Hey wait a minute - I thought we were using those big midair burst bombs to search the caves with. If it works, why fix it? __________________ What part of "... shall not be infringed..." don't you understand?

December 24, 2001, 10:55 AM	#5
Fred Hansen Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2001 Location: The middle of WWIII Posts: 3,335	Vx Gas __________________ "This started out as a documentary on gun violence in America, but the largest mass murder in our history was just committed -- without the use of a single gun! Not a single bullet fired! No bomb was set off, no missile was fired, no weapon (i.e., a device that was solely and specifically manufactured to kill humans) was used. A boxcutter! -- I can't stop thinking about this. A thousand gun control laws would not have prevented this massacre. What am I doing?" Michael Moore

December 24, 2001, 07:41 PM	#7
T.Labren Member Join Date: December 13, 2001 Location: Lafeyette,La. Posts: 35	Mans best friend A highly trained canine would be my point man along with the above fire power..

December 24, 2001, 08:40 PM	#8
Navy joe Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2001 Location: VA, USA Posts: 1,804	I think if you must go in it's silenced subguns and pistols. Rocks and rifle rounds would be a little ricochet problem, grenades would damage the user almost as much as the target from contained blast pressure. NVGs with IR illum wouldn't hurt either. From the sucess through superior engineering department I think of the VC tunnel problem. One solution that did not involve some hapless soldier with a pistol was to use a red devil blower and copious quanities of powdered CS. I know if the entrance sloped down and I didn't care about evidence I'd order up a tanker full of gasoline and open the taps. The flamethrower thing was I hope a joke, think user induced oxygen deprivation for all involved. Then you could always send Rosie O in there. A few hours later all inside would either surrender or shoot themselves. __________________ FY47012

December 24, 2001, 02:01 AM	#2
SamH Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2001 Location: Down Under Posts: 108	A reliable submachine gun, preferably single-hand capable, such as MP5K, UZI, MAC10. MAGLITE (night-vision would be nice too). A reliable pistol, preferably high-cap, eg. Glock 17. Level II or IIIA vest. Any lighter means no protection, any heavier means too much loss of movement. A good multi-tool. A Swiss Army Knife or a Leatherman. Of course, I'm assuming that I am working in a team of three or four others.

December 24, 2001, 10:51 AM	#4
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	The best weapon around--a SEAL Team. "There you go, guys. If you need anything, let me know."

December 24, 2001, 04:31 PM	#6
BIGSLOWHEAVY Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2001 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 151	Geraldo! Think of him as a modern day canary.

December 25, 2001, 03:27 AM	#9
yorec Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 2,328	Yep Navy Joe, nearly my whole post was a joke. How come you didn't laugh? The best serious idea is that of KSFreeman - send in the professionals with whatever toys they desire. I ain't going. __________________ What part of "... shall not be infringed..." don't you understand?

December 25, 2001, 04:00 PM	#11
BIGSLOWHEAVY Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2001 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 151	Nuther one. Radical militant "in your face" FemiNazi's armed only with a bullhorn. Their incoherent rantings would cause any taliban in the caves to turn their guns on themselves. Also, my snow removal technique comes to mind. It's a WWII flamethrower.

December 26, 2001, 12:18 AM	#12
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	Just as a note, night vision isn't going to be much help in caves unless there is a light source of some sort, such is the IR lights that you can get for that purpose. The problem is that night vision doesn't actually allow you to see in the dark. What you may perceive while outside as dark is actually quite illuninated by moon and star light. Many nocturnal animals such as cats see quite well in the "dark," only it isn't all that dark for them. Night vision simply amplifies the light available. Inside a cave, after a few corners, there may be no ambient light to work with. That is why cavers don't bring along night vision gear. I am not sure how great a flash bang would be in comparison to throwing a real grenade. If you are going to risk being close enough to through a grenade, why not make it one that will actually do harm to the enemy. As far as grenades doing harm to the good guys as well as bad guys, caution must be used. As they discovered in WWII and in Nam, grenades can be used effectively in caves when there are major obstructions such as dual corners. In fact, the Cong specifically built such corners in to their cave system to shield occupants not in the immediate blast zone. If one plans to go into a cave environment with noisy weapons, a definite piece of safety equipment needed would be muffs, ideally electronic muffs that would shield the wearer from hearing damage, yet allow the wearer to hear after the noise stops. Shooting in an indoor range with sound dampening materials on the walls is still much louder than shooting outside. Now imagine there being no sound dampening in a confined area composed of rock. Hearing damage would most certainly be a problem. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

December 26, 2001, 07:50 AM	#13
LoneStranger Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 2000 Location: Lawrence, KS Posts: 576	Like I said in a previous post. Go to Radio Shack and buy a bunch of those remote controlled small vehicles. On half of them you mount a small camera and microphone. Send it in ahead of you to look and listen. *Note that this allows you to keep your very delicate body out of harms way. * On the other half you can mount small fuel/air explosive devices. If someone inside shoots or attacks bang their cage then send the next pair of robots in. We are tool users so lets try using them. Remember, tools don't cry or bleed.

December 26, 2001, 08:03 AM	#14
Kharn Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,531	USAS-12 with lots of buckshot and slugs and a few dogs for me. Kharn

December 26, 2001, 11:29 AM	#15
ankara36 Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Posts: 257	Hillary Clinton in lingerie. They would eventually drown in their own vomit.

December 26, 2001, 07:29 PM	#16
Salt Junior member Join Date: December 26, 2001 Posts: 673	Chopped down Browning A5 12ga shotgun with magazine extension. Lots of #6 birdshot and some "00" buckshot rounds. Para-Ordinance P-14 .45 pistol w/ suppressor Fairbain-Sykes commando knife knee pads, elbow pads, kevlar, and ear muffs Maglight flashlight Leatherman multi tool

December 27, 2001, 05:36 PM	#18
OBIWAN Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 1999 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,340	I kinda like the Russian method Diesel Fuel and a match