removing .223 crimped primer

Servant · January 24, 2012, 08:29 AM

Hello all. So, I have the RCBS pocket swager. when the part of it that goes into the crimp pocket, there is an small area that angles out. My question is to you who use this, how far should this go into the pocket? Should I run it up to where the angle hits the case, or should this angle go inside of the case to where it bottoms out in the pocket? I am scared that I will remove too much and the primers wont stay. Does the primer grip and hold at the bottom of the pocket by the flash hole? I really don't want to swage and prime them one at a time, but if that is the only way to know I have done it correctly.... I have watched some videos on youtube, but the ones I find don't go into so much detail. Thank you ahead of time for your help. You fellas are the best!

solitude127 · January 24, 2012, 01:36 PM

I just did about 300 of these using the same tool. For me, it was mostly a feel thing. Meaning I did about 5 or 6 and then used some old primers to re prime those cases. Most of the ones in the beginning didn't have enough of the crimp removed. But after about a dozen or so, I got the feel of how much pressure to put on the handle.

Be careful of the rod. Make sure that it's all the way in. If that rod bends, your swagging days are over until you get a new one. I learned the hard way.

10 acre woods · January 24, 2012, 07:02 PM

I remove just enough to put a slight 45 on the inside rim of primer pocket. I haven't had one fall out yet.

jepp2 · January 24, 2012, 08:25 PM

As mentioned screw the rod all the way into the die.

Sort your brass by headstamp and year.

It is by feel. I watch the crimped edge until it rounds slightly. That is all you need. I make sure the die to higher than necessary. Then I gradually move the die down in small increments after raising the ram all the way each time. Once I feel it start to swage, I inspect the edge. Once I am happy with the result I tighten the lock ring with the ram in the up position with the die loaded.

In the off chance I get a case with a thicker web, I can feel it and stop before I bend the rod.

My RCBS swage is over 30 years old, has swaged more than 20K cases and so far I haven't bent the rod. Just take your time and learn how to use your new tool. I did polish the stud to get the case to come off easier.

Servant · January 24, 2012, 10:21 PM

Jepp, does the primer seat by the web end or on the mouth of the pocket?

jepp2 · January 24, 2012, 11:33 PM

A picture would be helpful, but I will try in words,

Make sure you put the #4 case stripper over #5 the swager head, this will knock the case off the stud after swaging.

For the 223, you have to guide the mouth of the case on #2 the rod as you raise the ram. So you are actually sliding the case up the rod at this point

As the #5 swager head nears the case, guide the case so the opening of the primer pocket on the head seats over the stud.

Now finish raising the ram.

To actually swage the pocket, it takes a good bit of force. On my RCBS RockChucker press that has a toggle over, it is the last bit of toggle over where the force increases dramatically and the pocket is swaged.

Then as you lower the ram, the stud will drop below the stud cover and the stud will retract from the brass. Sometimes the brass seems to hang up on the stud. I polished mine but a bit of Imperial sizing wax on it occasionally will assist with the release.

The numbers listed above were taken from RCBS swager instructions

Setup tip: I put a case on the rod, raise the ram fully and then screw the die down until the primer pocket just touches the swager head. Then as I mentioned, I just go little by little adjusting the die down each press stroke. You will feel the swager head sliding through the primer pocket each stroke until it nearly bottoms out. It never will reach the bottom of the primer pocket as the radius on the shoulder of the swager head will contact the case head first.

Servant · January 25, 2012, 12:15 AM

That wasn't what I was asking, let me put it this way, is it probably that I can run the swagger head too far into the pocket to where the primer will not seat and hold. Reason I ask is that after doing what you said, it still "looks" as if the crimp ring is still there, although I was able to insert a primer with the normal feel. So I was asking if the primer grips at the place that it is swagged or does it grip by the flash hole. I am concerned because I am still seeing the ring and I do not want to ruin the brass.

jepp2 · January 25, 2012, 10:46 PM

I can't overswage. It would bend the rod first. Is it a circular crimp like in the picture below? For that type crimp, the outer diameter will always be there. What will be gone is the sharp edge where the crimp reduced the primer pocket and would have restricted seating a new primer.

If you can seat a primer, you did the job correctly.

solitude127 · January 26, 2012, 01:22 PM

Jepp, thanks for the visual.

glicerin · January 26, 2012, 02:02 PM

X2 jepp2. Before I swage, and to make it easier, I slightly chamfer the sharp edge of the pocket with a neck chamfer tool.

Nevmavrick · January 26, 2012, 07:41 PM

The primer will be held by the entire depth of the primer pocket. The RCBS tool is made to be inserted into the pocket until the radius at the bottom of the stud curves the crimp out of the way. The stud won't swage the pocket too large, though you may insert it too far, and ruin the case. Cases are cheap, and losing one from time to time is part of the learning curve.
One day I will learn to photograph and copy, but not yet.
I use an off-press priming-tool, in my case a Lee, so I can test primer-fit at each increment of adjustment of the die. You can also feel the primer being started and seated better.
Glicerin-When you tapered the primer pocket, you did what the swage does. You don't really need to do both. The idea is to 'moosh' that little stamped ring out of the way.
Have fun,
Gene

January 24, 2012, 08:29 AM	#1
Servant Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2011 Location: Louisiana Posts: 116	removing .223 crimped primer Hello all. So, I have the RCBS pocket swager. when the part of it that goes into the crimp pocket, there is an small area that angles out. My question is to you who use this, how far should this go into the pocket? Should I run it up to where the angle hits the case, or should this angle go inside of the case to where it bottoms out in the pocket? I am scared that I will remove too much and the primers wont stay. Does the primer grip and hold at the bottom of the pocket by the flash hole? I really don't want to swage and prime them one at a time, but if that is the only way to know I have done it correctly.... I have watched some videos on youtube, but the ones I find don't go into so much detail. Thank you ahead of time for your help. You fellas are the best! __________________ "If you want to lead, you must first learn to serve, for the 1st shall be last and the last shall be first." If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch. Lead, follow, or get out of the way!

January 25, 2012, 12:15 AM	#7
Servant Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2011 Location: Louisiana Posts: 116	That wasn't what I was asking, let me put it this way, is it probably that I can run the swagger head too far into the pocket to where the primer will not seat and hold. Reason I ask is that after doing what you said, it still "looks" as if the crimp ring is still there, although I was able to insert a primer with the normal feel. So I was asking if the primer grips at the place that it is swagged or does it grip by the flash hole. I am concerned because I am still seeing the ring and I do not want to ruin the brass. __________________ "If you want to lead, you must first learn to serve, for the 1st shall be last and the last shall be first." If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch. Lead, follow, or get out of the way!

January 24, 2012, 01:36 PM	#2
solitude127 Member Join Date: December 5, 2011 Location: Southern California Posts: 74	I just did about 300 of these using the same tool. For me, it was mostly a feel thing. Meaning I did about 5 or 6 and then used some old primers to re prime those cases. Most of the ones in the beginning didn't have enough of the crimp removed. But after about a dozen or so, I got the feel of how much pressure to put on the handle. Be careful of the rod. Make sure that it's all the way in. If that rod bends, your swagging days are over until you get a new one. I learned the hard way.

January 24, 2012, 07:02 PM	#3
10 acre woods Member Join Date: December 1, 2011 Location: the commie state of il Posts: 73	I remove just enough to put a slight 45 on the inside rim of primer pocket. I haven't had one fall out yet.

January 24, 2012, 08:25 PM	#4
jepp2 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 1,476	As mentioned screw the rod all the way into the die. Sort your brass by headstamp and year. It is by feel. I watch the crimped edge until it rounds slightly. That is all you need. I make sure the die to higher than necessary. Then I gradually move the die down in small increments after raising the ram all the way each time. Once I feel it start to swage, I inspect the edge. Once I am happy with the result I tighten the lock ring with the ram in the up position with the die loaded. In the off chance I get a case with a thicker web, I can feel it and stop before I bend the rod. My RCBS swage is over 30 years old, has swaged more than 20K cases and so far I haven't bent the rod. Just take your time and learn how to use your new tool. I did polish the stud to get the case to come off easier.

January 24, 2012, 10:21 PM	#5
Servant Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2011 Location: Louisiana Posts: 116	Jepp, does the primer seat by the web end or on the mouth of the pocket? __________________ "If you want to lead, you must first learn to serve, for the 1st shall be last and the last shall be first." If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch. Lead, follow, or get out of the way!

January 24, 2012, 11:33 PM	#6
jepp2 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 1,476	A picture would be helpful, but I will try in words, Make sure you put the #4 case stripper over #5 the swager head, this will knock the case off the stud after swaging. For the 223, you have to guide the mouth of the case on #2 the rod as you raise the ram. So you are actually sliding the case up the rod at this point As the #5 swager head nears the case, guide the case so the opening of the primer pocket on the head seats over the stud. Now finish raising the ram. To actually swage the pocket, it takes a good bit of force. On my RCBS RockChucker press that has a toggle over, it is the last bit of toggle over where the force increases dramatically and the pocket is swaged. Then as you lower the ram, the stud will drop below the stud cover and the stud will retract from the brass. Sometimes the brass seems to hang up on the stud. I polished mine but a bit of Imperial sizing wax on it occasionally will assist with the release. The numbers listed above were taken from RCBS swager instructions Setup tip: I put a case on the rod, raise the ram fully and then screw the die down until the primer pocket just touches the swager head. Then as I mentioned, I just go little by little adjusting the die down each press stroke. You will feel the swager head sliding through the primer pocket each stroke until it nearly bottoms out. It never will reach the bottom of the primer pocket as the radius on the shoulder of the swager head will contact the case head first.

January 25, 2012, 10:46 PM	#8
jepp2 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 1,476	I can't overswage. It would bend the rod first. Is it a circular crimp like in the picture below? For that type crimp, the outer diameter will always be there. What will be gone is the sharp edge where the crimp reduced the primer pocket and would have restricted seating a new primer. If you can seat a primer, you did the job correctly.

January 26, 2012, 01:22 PM	#9
solitude127 Member Join Date: December 5, 2011 Location: Southern California Posts: 74	Jepp, thanks for the visual.

January 26, 2012, 02:02 PM	#10
glicerin Member Join Date: October 9, 2006 Location: Northern Ontario Posts: 36	X2 jepp2. Before I swage, and to make it easier, I slightly chamfer the sharp edge of the pocket with a neck chamfer tool.

January 26, 2012, 07:41 PM	#11
Nevmavrick Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2010 Location: Sparks, Nevada, near Reno Posts: 183	The primer will be held by the entire depth of the primer pocket. The RCBS tool is made to be inserted into the pocket until the radius at the bottom of the stud curves the crimp out of the way. The stud won't swage the pocket too large, though you may insert it too far, and ruin the case. Cases are cheap, and losing one from time to time is part of the learning curve. One day I will learn to photograph and copy, but not yet. I use an off-press priming-tool, in my case a Lee, so I can test primer-fit at each increment of adjustment of the die. You can also feel the primer being started and seated better. Glicerin-When you tapered the primer pocket, you did what the swage does. You don't really need to do both. The idea is to 'moosh' that little stamped ring out of the way. Have fun, Gene