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Old April 24, 2015, 03:04 PM   #1
RAfiringline
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Ear protection

I did some bench shooting w/ a new AR15, and my ear muffs interfere with my cheek placement and screw up my glasses. I'm trying to get my groups cut in half, and these muffs aren't helping.

Any suggestions for some "in the ear" protection that works? I don't think cotton or those foam things are good enough.

Thanks
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Old April 24, 2015, 03:37 PM   #2
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Good foam ones (I use Mack's Ultra) are enough IF you learn the technique of rolling them between your thumb and finger to compress them enough and then use your fingertip to quickly push it way into the ear canal. If they're deep enough they work great. 'Course then you also have to learn the technique of how to dig them back out (starting with your fingernail).

There are subtleties in brands. I really like Mack's Ultra the best... a good compromise between hard and soft.

Once I got used to getting the right depth, I became a big fan... but there is a learning curve.
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Old April 24, 2015, 04:33 PM   #3
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http://www.amazon.com/Radians-Custom...cone+ear+plugs

custom moldable plugs. I love them.

[edit] I looked back and note that their NRR is only 26db. Not really enough to work as stand-alone protection.

I use them under muffs for indoor shooting, and they work well for that.
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Old April 24, 2015, 05:46 PM   #4
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One thing in the ear plugs do not do is protect the mastoid area around the ear which transmit the vibration to the inner/middle ear which can also be very debilitating. Your best bet is to use both plugs and muffs. Peltor and Howard Leight make thin muffs that might works.

I shoot a target shotgun with electronic muffs and they never interfere with the stock or my glasses. Maybe you need to have someone look at your method of mounting the gun to see if there is something there that might need to be changed.
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Old April 24, 2015, 08:00 PM   #5
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I cant use the muffs when shooting long guns either. Learned early on to use plugs.

I mainly use the soft rubber "finned" type for shooting, that are also used for swimming. I also use the foam type at work. Both have a higher Db rating than any of the muff type Ive seen.

You can get a big box of the Howard Leight "MAX" plugs at most safety product suppliers for a reasonable price. They are soft, shaped for ease of use and comfort, and have a rating of 33.

The rubber ones dont seem to be as popular as they once were, but I find them slightly more effective than the foam type. They are reusable and can be washed. I have a half dozen pairs on the slings of different rifles so I always have a set, and I also keep a couple of packs of the foam type on other guns as well. There are always a 5 or 6 packs in my pants pockets too for work, or any time I might need them. That alone is a big plus over the muffs. Its easy to always have some along.
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Old April 24, 2015, 10:25 PM   #6
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I tend to find ear muffs, especially when wearing any sort of glasses which break the cup seal around the ear, are not the best for sole protection. They tend to have mid-20's NRRs and that is probably tested in "best case" conditions, not with safety glasses creating a gap around the top of the cup. Most decent foam plugs have a better NRR (although the flanged rubber ones are similar to muffs but MUCH easier to install properly). Plugs can be a trial and error through a few styles/brands until you find the best one for you.

It really depends a lot on the type of shooting I am doing. Indoors definitely doubled up. If I am shooting the loud gun at the range I will probably double up, but if I am shooting a .22 unless someone is shooting a compensated magnum in the next stall I will probably just use plugs or muffs (whatever is convenient for range noise).
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Old April 25, 2015, 06:12 AM   #7
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"those foam things"
Ear protection devices are rated (fairly stringently) and provide the amount of noise reduction they're labeled for-WHEN PROPERLY INSERTED. Installation may be a problem for some users.
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Old April 25, 2015, 06:57 AM   #8
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Go to the E.A.R. Inc. website.

I use their custom molded "Chameleon Ears" filtered ear plugs for both rifle and shotgun. You need to have a custom mold made of your ear canals and then they will make the plugs to fit your ears.

If you buy the "Pop Stoppers" version, there is an additional plug that can be used to close off the acoustic filter, giving an NRR of 30.

If you call or email them, they will provide several sources in your area for the mold service (generally at a hearing aid company). They send you back the molds with the finished earplugs so that you can have additional earplugs made at any time.
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Old April 25, 2015, 09:12 AM   #9
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I have gone through some intensive training for PPE on my job. The best hearing protection with the highest NRR is the canal plugs(foam) combined with muffs. If you can only wear one thing, wear the foam canal plugs.

I prefer the muffs and I wear glasses and never had any issues shooting shotguns or rifles.
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Old April 25, 2015, 12:13 PM   #10
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Have old pair of David Clarks that have served me well over the years.
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Old April 25, 2015, 01:45 PM   #11
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I use Surfire EP-3's everyday at work. They can usually be found for less than 15 bucks and are some of the most comfortable plugs I've found. Personally, I can't stand foamies. I'd rather go without than wear them. They make my ear canal itch like crazy.
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Old April 25, 2015, 02:10 PM   #12
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You might have a wrong cheek weld location if the stock is hitting your muffs while shooting off the bench.

For offhand or standing shots that require a quick mount...you're head should already be in the shooting position before you bring the gun up --- If you lower your head to the gun just as the gun comes to your shoulder --- you are doing it wrong.

Bring the butt stock slightly outward from your body as you bring the gun up --- and then drive-it straight back into your shoulder.

Use a squared-up fighter's stance --- shoulders forward, weight on the balls of your feet, knees slightly bent --- in order to control recoil better.

For safety glasses...slide the arms of the glasses outside the muff support wires.

While hunting with firearms...I use a camo pair of electronic Howard Leights, and I rarely have a muff slap with the gun --- and if I did --- I know I mounted the gun wrong.
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Old April 25, 2015, 02:18 PM   #13
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Quote:
You can get a big box of the Howard Leight "MAX" plugs at most safety product suppliers for a reasonable price. They are soft, shaped for ease of use and comfort, and have a rating of 33.
Those NRRs are optimistic - just like the stated gas mileage for your car. The other issue, which I saw today, is folks never insert the plugs completely inside the ear. These ROTC kids that were trapping barely had the tip inserted, basically no ear protection wore a darn. My electronic muffs carry a 26 NRR:



The nice thing about these types of muffs is that I can turn the volume up or down as needed for hearing either the target machines or someone talking.

They also make thinner ones:

and ones that go behind the head:


And that is just one of the makers that have these types
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Old April 25, 2015, 09:10 PM   #14
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The other issue, which I saw today, is folks never insert the plugs completely inside the ear.
Like anything else, if you dont use them properly, you dont get the benefit.

Ive seen more than a few guys at work, stick them in the outer ear sideways, "over" the ear canal.

I started with the muffs back in the 60's when they were all big, and tried the various "smaller" versions as they came out. Nothing ever worked as well as the plugs. The only time I ever wore both, was at a couple of the machine gun shoots, when I wasnt shooting.
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Old April 26, 2015, 12:40 AM   #15
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Double up. Defense in depth is always a good thing.

This should be your mantra:

cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible....

Now you say it a few times.......

(wish someone had beat this into my head years ago)
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Old April 26, 2015, 07:08 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by emcon5 View Post
Double up. Defense in depth is always a good thing.

This should be your mantra:

cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible, cumulative and irreversible....

Now you say it a few times.......

(wish someone had beat this into my head years ago)
Wait. Cumulative? I dont think thats the right word? Its not like when your ears are exposed to 999999 decibels is when they start to lose hearing.
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Old April 26, 2015, 08:38 AM   #17
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Start looking around for a new pair of muffs that are slimmer and presumably will have a lower NRR and consider doubling up with both plugs and muffs. I shoot ARs in highpower matches so I was kind of in the same boat as you once. Found some slimmer shotgun muffs that didn't interfere with getting a good cheeckweld or glasses. The downside is that they didn't have the highest NRR rating which is why I double up.

As someone who has lost a great deal of their hearing for various reasons I try to spread the gospel. Do yourself a favor and do everything you can to protect it. Its not going to be something you notice overnight, it builds up over time. One day you wake up and and notice that things you KNOW you used to be hear just fine you now have trouble with. There is no way to get it back, once the damage is done that's it, end of story.
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Old April 26, 2015, 08:49 AM   #18
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Wait. Cumulative? I dont think thats the right word
Mine is. My "tin ear", "ear crickets", "snare drum", all started back when I used to listen to Jimi Hendrix at volume 9 with the headset on. Over a long period of time, the loss got worse and worse.

The key word above is irreversible...............NOTHING can bring it back once it is gone. Now, some married guys might think that might not be to bad......., but I would like to be able to hear, even if it requires some amplification down the road.
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Old April 26, 2015, 09:33 AM   #19
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Wait. Cumulative? I dont think thats the right word? Its not like when your ears are exposed to 999999 decibels is when they start to lose hearing.
No, it is not like a counter, but every time you damage you hearing, it stacks with every other time you have damaged your hearing in your whole life.

And it never gets better.
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Old April 26, 2015, 05:01 PM   #20
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No, it is not like a counter, but every time you damage you hearing, it stacks with every other time you have damaged your hearing in your whole life.
And that means cumulative or accumulative IS the right word. And trust me, it is. Doubling up, for me.
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Old April 26, 2015, 08:01 PM   #21
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I will tell ya i have tinnitus. Atleast im pretty sure it is. You know that tone the movies play wheb a grenade or bomb goes off nearby and the person cant hear much? I hear that alot.

Not sure it was decibel damage though. I never go more thab medium to medium high. I am almost certain it was my ear infections from swimming or the crazy fevers ive had. Which explains why I would deny it all this time as Ive never really abused it too much.
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Old April 27, 2015, 08:54 AM   #22
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Ear protection

An audiologist created custom inner ear plugs (blue dot left and red dot right...like our political system. Ha!) they are made by squeezing a light compound into each ear and letting it set for a few minutes. They are then removed, trimmed and used in a mold made of a more durable compound. It is then drilled and a special material is inserted into each one.

They can be worn in conversations with others, and allows up to 85db of sound in, blocking the gun blasts around you. Best of all...no batteries! I got a pair for my son who sometimes frequents Indi-Rock bands.

Ask you local audiologists about it. As an NRA Instructor, I got my pair for $50!
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Old April 27, 2015, 05:29 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Boncrayon View Post
An audiologist created custom inner ear plugs (blue dot left and red dot right...like our political system. Ha!) they are made by squeezing a light compound into each ear and letting it set for a few minutes. They are then removed, trimmed and used in a mold made of a more durable compound. It is then drilled and a special material is inserted into each one.

They can be worn in conversations with others, and allows up to 85db of sound in, blocking the gun blasts around you. Best of all...no batteries! I got a pair for my son who sometimes frequents Indi-Rock bands.

Ask you local audiologists about it. As an NRA Instructor, I got my pair for $50!
I wish i hadnt learned about tinnitus. Now it just bugs yhe crap out of me. Im in my late 20s too. Ugh guess ill go see a audiologist
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Old April 27, 2015, 07:16 PM   #24
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I use the two componds you mix together, insert in each ear wait 15 minutes to set, and your good to go. MidwayUSA has them,works great indoors & out. I,m a benchrest shooter 308 cal. thats all I use for ear protection, very natural, nothing to get in your way.
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Old April 28, 2015, 11:20 AM   #25
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I wish i hadnt learned about tinnitus. Now it just bugs yhe crap out of me. Im in my late 20s too. Ugh guess ill go see a audiologist
Tinnitus for me for the last 25 or 30 years. It doesn't go away completely. I had many ear infections, having a swimming pool, as well. I also wasn't very careful around loud noises as a kid. You can be a good boy for the rest of your life, but if it was due to cumulative sound exposure, rather than an acute single case, such as an explosion, you are likely married to it. Even some of the acute cases can be permanent, but are generally likely to get at least a bit better without further exposure. Bottom line is, SAVE THE REST OF YOUR HEARING AT ALL COSTS. For me, that's doubling up with plugs and muffs, for ANY caliber.
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