unknown rifle, please help identify

ron90s · January 16, 2010, 07:48 AM

Hallo all
found this two barrel shotgun in my father's junk collection.
can any of you help me identify its origin??

logo on barrels states: j.catzeflis + etfils

Thanks

Ron

Jim Watson · January 16, 2010, 08:06 AM

The gun is one of the thousands and thousands of shotguns made in Belgium and sold all over the world in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

Proof marks on this one say it was made between 1898 and 1924, probably early in that period before everybody went hammerless. Ol' Catzeflis and his son may have been the makers or just sellers of a commodity gun as were turned out in large quantities by small companies who would put any name requested on a gun. The straight grip is a fairly unusual style, maybe they meant it to sell in England or Empire and it found its way here instead... or just later.

PetahW · January 16, 2010, 08:20 AM

FWIW, The green ooze around the barrel lugs suggests that it's corroding from inside the solder joint that holds the lugs to the barrels.

.

madcratebuilder · January 16, 2010, 10:17 AM

A old Belgium made shotgun that needs a gunsmith inspection if you are thinking about shooting it.

ron90s · January 16, 2010, 02:35 PM

Thanks folks for the info and observations, I did find two more firing arms and will post pictures as soon as I'll visit my old dad again.

BTW these firarms are located in Israel, I've found this forum using a google search.

Thanks again!

Ron

Scorch · January 16, 2010, 02:39 PM

16 ga from Belgium, no doubt about it. Has some signs of having aspired to being a fairly high-quality shotgun at some point in its life. The crowns on the barrels may be intended to infer some sort of association with the royal house, I don't know. The barrels and the barrel lug are brazed, judging from the green oxidation being lifted by the oils on the steel. Decorative tooling like that on the bottom of the lug is usually found on the more expensive guns, but any decorative tooling on good guns is usually of a lot higher quality of workmanship than what you see on your gun. It would be interesting to take a look at it.

Take it to a good gunsmith for a once-over. Just remember, there was a reason it was in your father's junk pile. Parts it needed may be unavailable, or it may be unsafe to fire for any number of reasons. Or it may have just needed some work that he never got around to doing.

January 16, 2010, 02:39 PM	#6
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	16 ga from Belgium, no doubt about it. Has some signs of having aspired to being a fairly high-quality shotgun at some point in its life. The crowns on the barrels may be intended to infer some sort of association with the royal house, I don't know. The barrels and the barrel lug are brazed, judging from the green oxidation being lifted by the oils on the steel. Decorative tooling like that on the bottom of the lug is usually found on the more expensive guns, but any decorative tooling on good guns is usually of a lot higher quality of workmanship than what you see on your gun. It would be interesting to take a look at it. Take it to a good gunsmith for a once-over. Just remember, there was a reason it was in your father's junk pile. Parts it needed may be unavailable, or it may be unsafe to fire for any number of reasons. Or it may have just needed some work that he never got around to doing. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

January 16, 2010, 08:06 AM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	The gun is one of the thousands and thousands of shotguns made in Belgium and sold all over the world in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Proof marks on this one say it was made between 1898 and 1924, probably early in that period before everybody went hammerless. Ol' Catzeflis and his son may have been the makers or just sellers of a commodity gun as were turned out in large quantities by small companies who would put any name requested on a gun. The straight grip is a fairly unusual style, maybe they meant it to sell in England or Empire and it found its way here instead... or just later.

January 16, 2010, 08:20 AM	#3
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	FWIW, The green ooze around the barrel lugs suggests that it's corroding from inside the solder joint that holds the lugs to the barrels. .

January 16, 2010, 10:17 AM	#4
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	A old Belgium made shotgun that needs a gunsmith inspection if you are thinking about shooting it.

January 16, 2010, 02:35 PM	#5
ron90s Junior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Posts: 2	Thanks folks for the info and observations, I did find two more firing arms and will post pictures as soon as I'll visit my old dad again. BTW these firarms are located in Israel, I've found this forum using a google search. Thanks again! Ron