410 noise vs 20 gauge noise

jlbpa · January 21, 2011, 06:12 PM

I've never shot a 410. Is it noticeably quieter than a 20 gauge single shot h&r topper (game load vs game load)?

Thanks

hardworker · January 21, 2011, 06:30 PM

Neither are really what I'd consider loud for a gun. However, it has been my experience that a 20 gauge single shot is the closest thing to a shoulder mounted cannon a man can purchase. Why do you ask?

MCCALL911 · January 21, 2011, 06:35 PM

H&R Topper is the main .410 that I've shot, although I would prefer a repeater in this chambering. The .410 is a nice round for my local copperheads, cottonmouths and the occasional timber rattler, whenever my local king snakes aren't doing their job.

Since I don't really hunt, it would be all the shotgun I would personally need. But, yes, I've found it to be much quieter than the 20 gauge.

TXAZ · January 21, 2011, 06:36 PM

There are several different parametric that can make a different, but in general a 410 is noticeably quieter than a 20 gauge.

A shorter barreled weapon may be a little louder, while some chokes (not likely on a .410) can quiet the gun down a little. A heavier charge can be a little louder, etc, etc.

If you were standing 100 yards away (in a safe direction) and a a .410 and a 20 gauge were being fired alternately, it would be pretty obvious which was which.

BigJimP · January 21, 2011, 06:41 PM

Interesting question .....

A typical .410 shell - has 1/2 ounce of shot in it ...and my loads are loaded to 1200 fps ....

A typical 20ga shotshell has 7/8 oz of shot in it -- and my loads are also loaded at 1200 fps ....

and I shoot both loads in an O/U with 30" barrels ....

I'm not a sound engineer ..... but standing on a "Skeet Field" where we fire 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410's shells all the time - even though the payloads of shot are leaving the barrel at the same speed ....the .410 does seem to be a lot quieter than a 20ga ....

I would guess they are at least 25% less noisy ....but I don't know how to do the physics or the math for you to prove it. I don't use the same powder in a .410 as I do in a 20ga ....and I would guess that's the same for factory loads ....and on average - we do use a little less powder in a .410 shell - but its only about 10% less than a 20ga ....

Maybe someone can give us a more technical answer ....maybe it has something to do with the cross section of the size of the opening in a 20ga vs a .410 ...and how the air is propelled out the barrel .... don't know .../but my guess is the .410 is about 25% less noisy than a 20ga.

Why do you ask / what are you trying to resolve ??

jlbpa · January 21, 2011, 06:47 PM

I want to shoot starlings at a property where there's way more than enough room to shoot shotguns and we deer hunt with rifles too but there are still neighbors close by to consider for noise (just to be considerate) . I have a 12 gauge with a 26" barrel , 2 - 16 gauges 28" I think , and a 20 gauge topper. I don't have a 410. If a 410 would be a noticeably less boom I'd have an excuse to buy one. But I'm squeaky so if I spending money on a 410 isn't going to buy me anything as far as noise reduction then I'll sleep better just using what I have.

jlbpa · January 21, 2011, 06:54 PM

Sounds like the consensus is I have an excuse to buy one..........and my birthday is in couple weeks..... I was going to buy myself a compound bow as my gift......but now it looks like it's a .410

BigJimP · January 21, 2011, 06:55 PM

I think it will give you some reduction in noise ...but neighbors are still going to hear it ....

You might want to consult with your local fish and game - and make sure they aren't going to have a problem with what you're doing --- not to mention, is it really going to make a difference ....even if you kill a few hundred of them../ or is it really worth the risk, I guess is what I'm saying...

Doyle · January 21, 2011, 07:00 PM

Quote:

I want to shoot starlings at a property where there's way more than enough room to shoot shotguns and we deer hunt with rifles too but there are still neighbors close by to consider for noise (just to be considerate) . I have a 12 gauge with a 26" barrel , 2 - 16 gauges 28" I think , and a 20 gauge topper. I don't have a 410. If a 410 would be a noticeably less boom I'd have an excuse to buy one. But I'm squeaky so if I spending money on a 410 isn't going to buy me anything as far as noise reduction then I'll sleep better just using what I have.

If you are squeaky tight with your money, then I'd advise staying away from .410. Go out on the internet and check the various ammo retailers to find out how much .410 shells cost. Be sure that you are sitting down when you do this.

jlbpa · January 21, 2011, 07:21 PM

It's no problem what I want to do . There's a large pond there and there's a group that hunts geese there. And the owner of the property I have access to sights in his .300 win mag in his back yard and Saturday I was up in the deer stand there and somebody over the hill - apparently with lots of money - was shooting constantly with a semi auto something for about 1 1/2 hours. I felt outgunned sitting there with my recurve bow.

If I can be a little considerate by not blasting away with my 870 12 ga , or my model 12 16 ga then that's what I'd rather do. Maybe I should just to get a nicer 20 gauge and reload some minimal loads. I have a friends lee loader in my possession.

Doyle · January 21, 2011, 08:06 PM

Back when I used to dove shoot (actually, I should say when I had access to dove fields), I used to notice a huge difference in the volumn of some guns. I don't have anything scientific to back it up, but I swear that the guys shooting autoloaders sounded much quieter.

BigJimP · January 21, 2011, 08:17 PM

Just don't shoot lead shot anywhere near the pond .... or you'll have a lot of frogs and fish - and ducks and geese - with 2 heads ...

I still don't think you're going to really have any significant impact on the starlings ...( I know they multiply pretty quickly ...) ...

I think its a bad plan .../especially near a pond - whether its private property or not ....

watebo · January 21, 2011, 08:22 PM

I asked my 10 year old grandson if he wanted to shoot my 410. He said for me to shoot it first. After the noise, he declined.

Sarge · January 21, 2011, 08:28 PM

Heck, shoot a box of shells through each and decide for yourself. The worst thing that can happen is that you shoot two boxes of shells and then have to shoot two more to decide.

Lordy it's a wonder I can even sleep at night, given all the two headed frogs I've caused in my lifetime. Leading down farm ponds has been a favorite pass-time of mine for at least forty years.

jlbpa · January 21, 2011, 09:20 PM

I just like wing shooting. I grew up in Pennsylvania hunting pheasants. Can't do much of that up there anymore. Now I'm in Kentucky and have yet to even see a pheasant here. To cheap to take a trip to the midwest for pheasant hunting excursion. But there's plenty of starlings here and they are always in season and no bag limit. What's not to like about that? Last two days tally is 6 starlings with my beeman r1 pellet rifle...that's a start :-).

When my friend comes down here we shoot clay birds. When I go back home to Pennsylvania we shoot clay birds.

I need more practice tossing up clay birds to myself so what the heck might as well shoot at the starlings. One of these days I'm going to splurge and wander up to the elk creek sporting clays establishment here in central Kentucky and see what I can do with my remington 11-48 semiauto 16ga.

No lead will go near the pond or the field where the geese feed.

That 20 ga topper is a cannon. My friend's boys liked shooting my 870 12 ga with light trap loads better than my model 12 16ga with the only load I could find locally that day (problem with a 16ga) what would be considered hi power rabbit and pheasant load and they gave up on the 20 gauge topper with game loads after the 1st couple shots. I'm thinking 20 ga browning bps 28" or 30" inch barrel, or maybe 20 ga 870 wingmaster, is as considerate as I need to be :-) I'll stop at the gun shop tomorrow and see what's on the racks.
Thanks for all the input.

zippy13 · January 22, 2011, 07:43 AM

I found this at a site on hearing loss:

SHOTGUN NOISE DATA (DECIBEL AVERAGES)
.410 Bore, 28" barrel 150dB
.410 Bore, 26" barrel 150.25dB
.410 Bore, 18" barrel 156.30dB

20 Gauge, 28" barrel 152.50dB
20 Gauge, 22" barrel 154.75dB
Data: freehearingtest.com

Remember sound pressure levels measured in DB use a logarithmic scale. The 2.5 dB increase, w/ 28" barrels, from a .410 to 20 is significantly more than a linear interpretation of 1.6% might lead one to believe.

B.L.E. · January 22, 2011, 08:46 AM

Winchester makes low velocity, low recoil, low noise ammo for 12 and 20 gauge shotguns under the Winlite trademark. You might want to try that before getting a .410

Creek Henry · January 22, 2011, 01:38 PM

You can also get inserts for shooting 410s in a 20 or 12. Supposedly, subgauges shot in larger bores are even quieter. Lane Short Arms makes a bunch on inserts for the 12 and 20 from 410 to 22LR, 22 mag, to 44 magnum. I use ratshot in mine for light dispatching shots on wounded upland game that I don't want to disintegrate actually.

jlbpa · January 22, 2011, 02:23 PM

Thanks, I forgot about those inserts. I'll try to get a .410 insert for my 20 ga topper and use that until I decide which new 20 ga I'll buy myself for my birthday.

hogdogs · January 22, 2011, 03:13 PM

The .410 is extremely more expensive to shoot than a 20 ga. if you hit every bird... when you figure in the missed shots, that gets far more expensive per bird cost...

Brent

hogdogs · January 22, 2011, 03:17 PM

As for the lead... I wouldn't worry a bit about a few pounds in the water... A couple parts per million may work off but once it oxidizes, it will be pretty much "inert" to the fish and frogs...

If lead were bad for ponds, split shot weights would be made of something else...

And if a few stupid individual fish or frogs think it is food and eats the pellets... so be it... Natural process of elimination of the weak or stupid from the gene pool is a good thing...

Brent

zippy13 · January 22, 2011, 03:51 PM

Brent, I ran the numbers a while ago on the .410-bore vs. 12-ga. Let's have a look 20-ga vs .410-bore pricing with Win Double-A target loads (they are pretty much the same other than gauge).

.410-bore, 1/2-oz #8s, $10.99/box of 25: 10.99/(.5x25) = $0.88/ounce
20-gauge, 7/8-oz #8s, $8.99/box of 25: 8.99/(.875x250) = $0.41/ounce

The .410 is 2.12 (88/41) times more expensive per ounce than the 20!
What a rip-off, when you consider the .410 is the cheapest shot shell to reload.
Price info from MidwayUSA.com

hogdogs · January 22, 2011, 04:12 PM

And you didn't even do the math on them promo bricks from walmart...

Brent

Creek Henry · January 23, 2011, 10:40 AM

anthonygordon · January 23, 2011, 03:03 PM

in my personal opinion i think that the 20 ga. sounds a little louder and also they kick alot more.

January 21, 2011, 06:12 PM	#1
jlbpa Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2000 Posts: 196	410 noise vs 20 gauge noise I've never shot a 410. Is it noticeably quieter than a 20 gauge single shot h&r topper (game load vs game load)? Thanks

January 21, 2011, 06:35 PM	#3
MCCALL911 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 196	H&R Topper is the main .410 that I've shot, although I would prefer a repeater in this chambering. The .410 is a nice round for my local copperheads, cottonmouths and the occasional timber rattler, whenever my local king snakes aren't doing their job. Since I don't really hunt, it would be all the shotgun I would personally need. But, yes, I've found it to be much quieter than the 20 gauge. __________________ --------------------------------------------------- Moe Howard: "Fire at will!" Larry Fine: "Which one's Will?"

January 21, 2011, 06:36 PM	#4
TXAZ Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2010 Location: McMurdo Sound Texas Posts: 4,322	There are several different parametric that can make a different, but in general a 410 is noticeably quieter than a 20 gauge. A shorter barreled weapon may be a little louder, while some chokes (not likely on a .410) can quiet the gun down a little. A heavier charge can be a little louder, etc, etc. If you were standing 100 yards away (in a safe direction) and a a .410 and a 20 gauge were being fired alternately, it would be pretty obvious which was which. __________________ Cave illos in guns et backhoes

January 21, 2011, 08:22 PM	#13
watebo Member Join Date: August 28, 2010 Location: NE Texas Posts: 22	Grandson opted out. I asked my 10 year old grandson if he wanted to shoot my 410. He said for me to shoot it first. After the noise, he declined.

January 21, 2011, 08:28 PM	#14
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	Heck, shoot a box of shells through each and decide for yourself. The worst thing that can happen is that you shoot two boxes of shells and then have to shoot two more to decide. Lordy it's a wonder I can even sleep at night, given all the two headed frogs I've caused in my lifetime. Leading down farm ponds has been a favorite pass-time of mine for at least forty years. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

January 21, 2011, 06:30 PM	#2
hardworker Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2010 Posts: 820	Neither are really what I'd consider loud for a gun. However, it has been my experience that a 20 gauge single shot is the closest thing to a shoulder mounted cannon a man can purchase. Why do you ask?

January 21, 2011, 06:41 PM	#5
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Interesting question ..... A typical .410 shell - has 1/2 ounce of shot in it ...and my loads are loaded to 1200 fps .... A typical 20ga shotshell has 7/8 oz of shot in it -- and my loads are also loaded at 1200 fps .... and I shoot both loads in an O/U with 30" barrels .... I'm not a sound engineer ..... but standing on a "Skeet Field" where we fire 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410's shells all the time - even though the payloads of shot are leaving the barrel at the same speed ....the .410 does seem to be a lot quieter than a 20ga .... I would guess they are at least 25% less noisy ....but I don't know how to do the physics or the math for you to prove it. I don't use the same powder in a .410 as I do in a 20ga ....and I would guess that's the same for factory loads ....and on average - we do use a little less powder in a .410 shell - but its only about 10% less than a 20ga .... Maybe someone can give us a more technical answer ....maybe it has something to do with the cross section of the size of the opening in a 20ga vs a .410 ...and how the air is propelled out the barrel .... don't know .../but my guess is the .410 is about 25% less noisy than a 20ga. Why do you ask / what are you trying to resolve ??

January 21, 2011, 06:47 PM	#6
jlbpa Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2000 Posts: 196	I want to shoot starlings at a property where there's way more than enough room to shoot shotguns and we deer hunt with rifles too but there are still neighbors close by to consider for noise (just to be considerate) . I have a 12 gauge with a 26" barrel , 2 - 16 gauges 28" I think , and a 20 gauge topper. I don't have a 410. If a 410 would be a noticeably less boom I'd have an excuse to buy one. But I'm squeaky so if I spending money on a 410 isn't going to buy me anything as far as noise reduction then I'll sleep better just using what I have.

January 21, 2011, 06:54 PM	#7
jlbpa Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2000 Posts: 196	Sounds like the consensus is I have an excuse to buy one..........and my birthday is in couple weeks..... I was going to buy myself a compound bow as my gift......but now it looks like it's a .410

January 21, 2011, 06:55 PM	#8
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I think it will give you some reduction in noise ...but neighbors are still going to hear it .... You might want to consult with your local fish and game - and make sure they aren't going to have a problem with what you're doing --- not to mention, is it really going to make a difference ....even if you kill a few hundred of them../ or is it really worth the risk, I guess is what I'm saying...

January 21, 2011, 07:21 PM	#10
jlbpa Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2000 Posts: 196	It's no problem what I want to do . There's a large pond there and there's a group that hunts geese there. And the owner of the property I have access to sights in his .300 win mag in his back yard and Saturday I was up in the deer stand there and somebody over the hill - apparently with lots of money - was shooting constantly with a semi auto something for about 1 1/2 hours. I felt outgunned sitting there with my recurve bow. If I can be a little considerate by not blasting away with my 870 12 ga , or my model 12 16 ga then that's what I'd rather do. Maybe I should just to get a nicer 20 gauge and reload some minimal loads. I have a friends lee loader in my possession.

January 21, 2011, 08:06 PM	#11
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	Back when I used to dove shoot (actually, I should say when I had access to dove fields), I used to notice a huge difference in the volumn of some guns. I don't have anything scientific to back it up, but I swear that the guys shooting autoloaders sounded much quieter.

January 21, 2011, 08:17 PM	#12
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Just don't shoot lead shot anywhere near the pond .... or you'll have a lot of frogs and fish - and ducks and geese - with 2 heads ... I still don't think you're going to really have any significant impact on the starlings ...( I know they multiply pretty quickly ...) ... I think its a bad plan .../especially near a pond - whether its private property or not ....

January 21, 2011, 09:20 PM	#15
jlbpa Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2000 Posts: 196	I just like wing shooting. I grew up in Pennsylvania hunting pheasants. Can't do much of that up there anymore. Now I'm in Kentucky and have yet to even see a pheasant here. To cheap to take a trip to the midwest for pheasant hunting excursion. But there's plenty of starlings here and they are always in season and no bag limit. What's not to like about that? Last two days tally is 6 starlings with my beeman r1 pellet rifle...that's a start :-). When my friend comes down here we shoot clay birds. When I go back home to Pennsylvania we shoot clay birds. I need more practice tossing up clay birds to myself so what the heck might as well shoot at the starlings. One of these days I'm going to splurge and wander up to the elk creek sporting clays establishment here in central Kentucky and see what I can do with my remington 11-48 semiauto 16ga. No lead will go near the pond or the field where the geese feed. That 20 ga topper is a cannon. My friend's boys liked shooting my 870 12 ga with light trap loads better than my model 12 16ga with the only load I could find locally that day (problem with a 16ga) what would be considered hi power rabbit and pheasant load and they gave up on the 20 gauge topper with game loads after the 1st couple shots. I'm thinking 20 ga browning bps 28" or 30" inch barrel, or maybe 20 ga 870 wingmaster, is as considerate as I need to be :-) I'll stop at the gun shop tomorrow and see what's on the racks. Thanks for all the input.

January 22, 2011, 07:43 AM	#16
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	I found this at a site on hearing loss: SHOTGUN NOISE DATA (DECIBEL AVERAGES) .410 Bore, 28" barrel 150dB .410 Bore, 26" barrel 150.25dB .410 Bore, 18" barrel 156.30dB 20 Gauge, 28" barrel 152.50dB 20 Gauge, 22" barrel 154.75dB Data: freehearingtest.com Remember sound pressure levels measured in DB use a logarithmic scale. The 2.5 dB increase, w/ 28" barrels, from a .410 to 20 is significantly more than a linear interpretation of 1.6% might lead one to believe.

January 22, 2011, 08:46 AM	#17
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	Winchester makes low velocity, low recoil, low noise ammo for 12 and 20 gauge shotguns under the Winlite trademark. You might want to try that before getting a .410

January 22, 2011, 01:38 PM	#18
Creek Henry Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2009 Location: Dallas Posts: 514	You can also get inserts for shooting 410s in a 20 or 12. Supposedly, subgauges shot in larger bores are even quieter. Lane Short Arms makes a bunch on inserts for the 12 and 20 from 410 to 22LR, 22 mag, to 44 magnum. I use ratshot in mine for light dispatching shots on wounded upland game that I don't want to disintegrate actually.

January 22, 2011, 02:23 PM	#19
jlbpa Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2000 Posts: 196	Thanks, I forgot about those inserts. I'll try to get a .410 insert for my 20 ga topper and use that until I decide which new 20 ga I'll buy myself for my birthday.

January 22, 2011, 03:13 PM	#20
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	The .410 is extremely more expensive to shoot than a 20 ga. if you hit every bird... when you figure in the missed shots, that gets far more expensive per bird cost... Brent

January 22, 2011, 03:17 PM	#21
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	As for the lead... I wouldn't worry a bit about a few pounds in the water... A couple parts per million may work off but once it oxidizes, it will be pretty much "inert" to the fish and frogs... If lead were bad for ponds, split shot weights would be made of something else... And if a few stupid individual fish or frogs think it is food and eats the pellets... so be it... Natural process of elimination of the weak or stupid from the gene pool is a good thing... Brent

January 22, 2011, 03:51 PM	#22
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Brent, I ran the numbers a while ago on the .410-bore vs. 12-ga. Let's have a look 20-ga vs .410-bore pricing with Win Double-A target loads (they are pretty much the same other than gauge). .410-bore, 1/2-oz #8s, $10.99/box of 25: 10.99/(.5x25) = $0.88/ounce 20-gauge, 7/8-oz #8s, $8.99/box of 25: 8.99/(.875x250) = $0.41/ounce The .410 is 2.12 (88/41) times more expensive per ounce than the 20! What a rip-off, when you consider the .410 is the cheapest shot shell to reload. Price info from MidwayUSA.com

January 22, 2011, 04:12 PM	#23
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	And you didn't even do the math on them promo bricks from walmart... Brent

January 23, 2011, 10:40 AM	#24
Creek Henry Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2009 Location: Dallas Posts: 514

January 23, 2011, 03:03 PM	#25
anthonygordon Junior Member Join Date: January 22, 2011 Location: Scott Ohio Posts: 10	in my personal opinion i think that the 20 ga. sounds a little louder and also they kick alot more.