pistols & magazines & flashlights, oh my!

[Deaf Smith]

Troy,

All I carry is the weapon, or two, my flashlight, and that's that. I'm not a huge knife person but do know how to use my hands and feet well.

I believe in keeping it simple.

[Japle]

Posted by 1946:
While I have noticed many here are younger and new to either firearms, CCW or both, there is a tendancy to carry a lot of ammo and even show it off.

And some of us are older/retired and have carried for 20-30+ years.
We carry what you would consider a lot of ammo because we don't want to run out in the unlikely event that we might need it.

Walking into a store, restaurant or out in the streets with ammo hanging off the belts causes some people discomfort. The likelyhood of a person needing that much ammo is slimmer than can be calculated but the odds of being seen looking like going to war is great.

We're talking CCW here, right? You said so in the 1st quote above.
So just how does packing extra ammo cause discomfort?
Just another straw man argument.

[Tamara]

From a post I wrote on my blog:

One reason I've actually heard people give for carrying larger capacity pistols is that they don't need to carry a second mag.

Folks, the second mag isn't there so you can have a shootout with hordes of pirates or ninjas, it's there because the magazine is the single most fragile and failure-prone part of any self-loading handgun.

[Balog]

These discussions always remind me of the difference between Obsessive Compulsive personality type, and Obsessive Compulsive disorder. What's the difference? One significantly interferes with your life.

We all want to be prepared. I think Marko Kloos said it best:

Originally Posted by Marko Kloos

"The whole reason behind carrying a gun for self-defense is that you're worried about the stakes more than the odds."

At least that's the version a quick n' dirty Google found, correct me if it's wrong.

The question is, at what point does your level of preparedness for an unlikely event seriously interfere with your normal life? Some people can comfortably carry a full size semi auto, multiple reloads, a BUG, multiple reloads for the BUG, 2 or more flashlights (cause Murphy applies to them too), 2 or more cell phones on multiple independent networks (Murphy applies to cell towers too), 2 or more knives, 2 or more batons, 2 or more pepper sprays, 2 or more tazers, and of course 2 or more first aid kits. If they can do it, more power to them. But just because they can do that without interfering with their lives, does not mean everyone can.

And that I think is the gist of this argument. No one can be perfectly prepared for all eventualities, so everything is merely an indicator of how unprepared we wish to be.

I'll use two examples here; seat belts and home invasions.

Seat belts are mechanical devices, prone to Murphy. How many people have multiple seat belts installed in their cars? Maybe just a 5 point harness over the stock one?

Home invasions have been carried out by professionals who cut power and phone lines, employ cell jammers, and come in teams up to five wearing body armor. Do you always have a high capacity rifle (with multiple reloads, of course!), body armour, electronic hearing protection, night vision, means of contacting help that are independent of phone lines (or cell towers, or house power) etc within arms reach?

Everyone evaluates the perceived risk and equips for it. I think all this fussing at people who do not perceive a need to be less unprepared than you are is counter productive.

Imho the real gauge for how prepared someone is resides not in what they carry, but how much they train with it. That's jus' me tho...

[oldman1946]

We're talking CCW here, right? You said so in the 1st quote above.
So just how does packing extra ammo cause discomfort?
Just another straw man argument.

It would not matter. It is a perception people get from others. I have a friend that retired from a radio room at an area PD. He walks around with a fully loaded Wilson Custom, less holster, inside his waistband. He has THREE magazines in holders on his belt. The argument for magzine failure goes out the door with three extra mags. But think how people in a store or restaurant perceive him to be or wonder what his intentions are.

How many times have you listened or watched a news report about how much ammo a shooter had? Remember Ft Hood? What about Columbine? The media had a field day with the ammo brought by the shooter. The government tightened the noose on us a little more with each shooting and the public became more concerned about such.

Check the 911 calls each day from any mid- large size city in the south. There will be several calls about an armed person in a store or on the street. Most of these calls are dismissed since the armed person is gone by the time of officer arrival. Others are ok since the armed person is totally legal.

However, there are calls that are warranted and someone get arrested.

I have been on the scene of many, many shootings. A good amount of them are justified. Yet it has gotten where there is more ammo in magazines at the scene than there are police officers. People are hitting the streets armed for war and the media plays on the fears of the public in telling what is found.

Now compare that to a person carrying a revolver. They generally carry one gun, no extra ammo and feel comfortable and safe.

I like revolvers and sometimes carry one. I generally carry a semi but I do not carry extra magazines. I have 38 yrs in LE. My uncle retired with 40 yrs. Two of my cousins has about 20 yrs each and with us shooting in training, competitions and such, not one of us have sustained mag failure.

Given it may be possible, a spare mag would solve the problem. But 2-3 spare mags makes it appear to the public that you are about to declare war. If you can conceal them all the time, then carry away. Most cannot and get seen.

Now lets get to the shooting in the event of need. Years ago when I first got out of law school, the avg shots fired by a good guy was two. Now it is nine. The inventory of what a peson carried after a shooting has gone to where the shooter has a half box of shells on them. This amount decreases as the caliber weapon is increased.

I love guns and collect them as well as shoot them. I love the sport and I love the citizen being able to be armed as long as they are legal.

However if the trend continues, and many Chiefs of Police have already began rumblings, about the complaints they are getting on armed citizens. How many complaints will an anti gunner politician have to get before a law is passed to limit our freedoms?

We do this to ourselves. Just as if I see someone wearing bling, dressed in satin and driving a Corvette, I get a differerent perception of them than I would if they were in work clothes, driving a pickup. Of course, so do the women that see them.

Keep on showing the guns, braqging about how much ammo and guns they have. Our actions will effect us all. More stores are now posting signs restricting gun carry. This state is gun friendly. We can carry open, get a CCW with minimum training, keep in vehicles without a CCW and many other things. Yet we can no longer walk into a residence carrying concealed without telling the residents and getting permission to enter the home. It only took a handful of complaints to get that into the state law. Look for WalMart to put signs up in the next few months forbiding weapon carry.

But we are doing it to ourselves.

[Tamara]

Originally Posted by oldman1946

Now compare that to a person carrying a revolver. They generally carry one gun, no extra ammo and feel comfortable and safe.

Most of the people I know who carry revolvers carry a speed strip or speed loader (although I knew a guy who carried an old-school dump pouch.)

And what does "feeling" have to do with it? For heaven's sake, there are people riding motorcycles without helmets after a few beers who "feel" comfortable and safe. I "feel" the same amount of safety and comfort whether I'm carrying the gun(s) or not.

Originally Posted by oldman1946

I have 38 yrs in LE. My uncle retired with 40 yrs. Two of my cousins has about 20 yrs each and with us shooting in training, competitions and such, not one of us have sustained mag failure.

I'm not surprised. Most cops shoot 50 rounds a year whether they have to or not. If you haven't broken your gear, you're not using it enough. Period.

Mags break; it's a fact of life. They're wear items; they wear out. You throw them away and buy more (but please stomp them flat before you throw them away, because some 50-rd/month shooter is going to fish your broken mag out of the range trash can to save money, sure as god made little green apples...) Heck, I haven't broken a magazine since a rifle clinic in early November.

BTW: You're pretty obsessed with spare ammo in restaurants. I've never noticed this phenomenon myself; are the mags more likely to jump out of my pocket there?

[oldman1946]

BTW: You're pretty obsessed with spare ammo in restaurants. I've never noticed this phenomenon myself; are the mags more likely to jump out of my pocket there?

Nope, I am not obsessed with carry anywhere.

You do not notice this since you are not in law enforcement. You do not notice that LEO generally will sit in a spot where they can watch the door and the register. Most of the time, sitting with their backs to a wall so they can see what is going on and who is coming in.

You and many others here, as I am, will be considered pro gun and as such, the sight of a truck load of ammo goes unnoticed. Yet from the law enforcement view, we look for who may be carrying. A fanny pack screams gun to us. Coats in warm weather is virtually a sign saying gun. Oversize pants and a few other things suggest a possible gun.

We also watch the way people drive for signs of intoxication. Slow, wide turns, hugging one line or another, slower than traffic speed and such are also one of the 12 things we look for when a driver may be intoxicated. The same with hidden guns. Contrary to what you may think, the amount of illegal carry far surpasses legal carry. Breaking a law does not bother a criminal but law enforcement looks for the criminal actions of others for reasons of public safety.

If you consider the view of the anti gunners, the elderly and those without a position on guns, seeing one with a gun on their side is somewhat upsetting. Seeing a belt lined with magazines becomes a source of concern as to why they need that much. There are those that write letters to the media and politicians about it. It may be some pro gunners would write also about how comforting it was to see an armed person in public but I have never heard of it happening so the anti crowd wins that round.

I'm not surprised. Most cops shoot 50 rounds a year whether they have to or not. If you haven't broken your gear, you're not using it enough. Period.

I am 64 yrs of age and set in my ways. You do not know me at all yet I have been written about in law enforcement mags and in the law books. I shoot between 5,000-8,000 rounds a month both privately and in competition. My youngest daughter is a medical professional and she and I shot competitively for years. Neither of us has sustained mag failure but maybe we invest in better equipment or take better care of our gear.

I was one of the advisory panel when the CCW law was being revised here 20 years ago and long before most here was too young to be shooting. Over the years I have seen an evolution in the public carry and that disturbs me. Walk a mile in my shoes and see what I do. The only way you will ever see me is if there is a fatality or multiple serious injury where an expert in the field is needed. I travel over 60,000 miles a year looking at such, both at the crime scene when possible and afterward when circumstances warrant. Much of my time is spent in courts on this type cases.

No, I am not obsessed. I just see things from both sides and try to keep an unbiased opinion so my judgement does not become tainted. If I mentioned the other changes in CCW, shooting and firearm crime over the years, I would be banned from here. We are doing an injustice to our sport and our freedoms.

While at it, you mentioned carrying speedloaders by your friends. A speed loader will be six rounds. I routinely see people with 36 or more rounds on them. Did you know that alone can predjuice a judge or jury since it is often construed to be looking for trouble. Just get into a situation where you have a shooting and you are weighed down with spare bullets. You are going to be questioned hard and often. If it gets turned over to a Grand Jury, your spare ammo will be used against you. In the event you are not familar with Grand Jury, only the prosecution side is presented. Your defense atty or yourself will not be present and your side will not be heard. Having a box of shells on you will not go in your favor. From there, things will get costly for you.

[igor]

We do the handgun community an injustice when walking around like Rambo.

OK, I guess it is this projection you can't get beyond then. You're not talking about me or anyone I know, nor anyone I've seen. Resting case here.

[KSFreeman]

What about Columbine? The media had a field day with the ammo brought by the shooter. The government tightened the noose on us a little more with each shooting and the public became more concerned about such.

No, it did not. After Columbine the gun show bill went down to a spectacular defeat.

After Fort Hood there was a marked absence of gun control proposals.

Further, don't you find it the least bit offensive to compare someone who carries a pistol for self-defense to those bent on mass murder at Fort Hood and Columbine?

If this is a "possession equals intent" argument, aren't all males guilty of rape?

Check the 911 calls each day from any mid- large size city in the south

O.K., so they are scared of guns down South. So what?

What does this have to do with carrying extra ammo?

People are hitting the streets armed for war and the media plays on the fears of the public in telling what is found.

Really? Where are people armed for war? Afghanistan? Iraq?

Since the police carry extra ammo, are the police armed for war? The police are out to kill us? Should we treat the police as our enemy because they have extra ammo?

Now compare that to a person carrying a revolver. They generally carry one gun, no extra ammo and feel comfortable and safe.

False feelings of security do not interest me. For everyone person who know who does not carry extra ammo for a revolver, I know several (including myself) who do carry extra ammo.

What if I carry extra ammo, three guns, two knives and a flashlight and I feel comfortable and safe? What about my feelings?

But 2-3 spare mags makes it appear to the public that you are about to declare war.

Ahhh, I see, so the Lafayette (Indiana) Police Department carries 46 rounds of ammo, visible to all to see, then the police are out to declare war on me?

An Indiana State Trooper carries 52 rounds of ammo (plus his back up gun) visible for all to see. Is this trooper out to declare war on me? In your world is he a threat, or since he is an only one, this is permissible?

I knew the police were a threat to me! Thanks for confirming my fears.

However if the trend continues, and many Chiefs of Police have already began rumblings, about the complaints they are getting on armed citizens

I could care less about what complaints a Chief of Police gets about my civil right to carry a gun. I'll bet down South plenty of people complained about African-Americans sitting at lunch counters or riding on buses. How uppity of them! If only they would meekly keep their place I say, I say.

The police swear an oath to the state and federal Constitutions. Both of these documents recognize my right to carry a gun or guns and as much extra ammo as I damn well please. The police will obey the Constitution, or they will be serving crawdads and gumbo somewhere.

If police chiefs received complaints about books, or churches, or computer forums, would we have to stop reading, worshipping or yakking on the Errornet? Of course not. The Bill of Rights protects the rights of the minority against the bleating and whining of the majority.

Keep on showing the guns, braqging about how much ammo and guns they have.

It is legal for me to do so, further it is my right. I refuse to be intimidated not to exercise my rights.

More stores are now posting signs restricting gun carry. This state is gun friendly. We can carry open, get a CCW with minimum training, keep in vehicles without a CCW and many other things. Yet we can no longer walk into a residence carrying concealed without telling the residents and getting permission to enter the home. It only took a handful of complaints to get that into the state law. Look for WalMart to put signs up in the next few months forbiding weapon carry.

I know the South is different and you have a history of restricting civil rights, but it sounds like y'all better get off your backsides and get to work. We have no such silliness here.

Perhaps there is a state organization that you can work with?

[KSFreeman]

You do not notice this since you are not in law enforcement.

Former law enforcement here. LEOs are not the only ones who are alert.

Many non-LEOs have far more training than LEOs. You are not the only ones.

The same with hidden guns.

Why do you use the terminology of the Brady Bunch?

I thought concealed was better in your world? Now if the pistols (and ammo) is concealed it is "hidden", implying some nefarious motivation.

If you consider the view of the anti gunners, the elderly and those without a position on guns, seeing one with a gun on their side is somewhat upsetting.

I don't care. Let them shudder and whine about my civil rights.

Yes, I'll bet the sight of a Black man walking about after sunset upset Louisiana law enforcement too, but y'all got educated on that.

We're here, wer're armed, you better get used to it.

It may be some pro gunners would write also about how comforting it was to see an armed person in public but I have never heard of it happening so the anti crowd wins that round.

Where is this happening?

Where have the antis had a victory on carrying recently?

Where have laws been passed prohibiting open carrying outside of the jim Crow South?

Over the years I have seen an evolution in the public carry and that disturbs me.

Yes, more people are doing it as more states reform their laws.

The police are not the only ones with guns and openly carried extra ammo now. Those uppity citizens carry them now.

I routinely see people with 36 or more rounds on them.

Yes, so do I. In fact these people carry 36+ rounds on them. I address them as Deputy, Trooper, Detective or Officer.

Should the police be the only ones to carry extra ammo?

If it gets turned over to a Grand Jury, your spare ammo will be used against you. In the event you are not familar with Grand Jury, only the prosecution side is presented. Your defense atty or yourself will not be present and your side will not be heard.

Grand Jury? Not everyone lives in a grand jury state.

I would like some cases of where the "extra ammo" theory has been used against an officer. Heck with so many cops carrying extra ammo right out in the open, I'll settle for just six (6) cases of police being prosecuted for carrying extra ammo.

I'll wait here and load mags while you get me those cases.

[Tamara]

Originally Posted by Balog

Imho the real gauge for how prepared someone is resides not in what they carry, but how much they train with it. That's jus' me tho...

Quoted For Truth.

No, that's not just you.

Whether CCW toter or cop, there's an appalling idea that "Possession = Preparedness". Carrying a reload is pointless if you don't practice reloading. Carrying a BUG is pointless if you don't practice shooting it.

How many people carry a BUG accessible to the weak hand and never shoot it weak-hand only?

[Long Path]

Tam, I don't shoot my BUG enough weak-handed. I have only done so enough to determine that I have NO BUSINESS shooting my most common BUG weak-handed-only, except at contact distances. I am so strong-hand dominant, and my DAO BUG is so tiny in my giant mitts, that I'm not guarenteeing any proficiency under speed and stress out of the weak side only. (with that gun)

I'm not proud of that.

I will say that I practice (not enough) with my weak hand only with my primary guns, and another off-duty concealable pocket revolver.

[Long Path]

oldman1946 said: "Contrary to what you may think, the amount of illegal carry far surpasses legal carry."

Huh. I've been carrying a badge and arresting bad guys since 2000, and I have met a LOT of people carrying guns in the field. The vast majority of them were doing so legally. I can think of only two honest-to-Gawd criminals that I found with guns illegally secreted on their persons.

Now, I've arrested quite a few people that had guns with them or in their cars, but that wasn't illegal carry; it was just something to be dealt with like their car that had to be impounded following their arrest. Ho hum.

What I run into far more often is people who have totin' permits, who don't carry guns with them. I always ask them why they're not armed, since they went to the trouble of getting a carry permit.

Oh, I recall on some traffic stops that I've been on, where I've run into the occasional little old lady who, back before the state claimed "Traveling" included any time you were driving your car legally, carried a small gun in her purse, whom I advised to keep it out of sight. I suppose I saw an illegal carry there. But it wouldn't be illegal now.

Look, it's true that we cops look for some things that non-cops often don't look for. The drunk driving thing is a good example. People see the driver who's "All Over The Road" (tm), but probably most people don't see the more subtle indicators. (I say "probably," because it's certainly possible that they do see them, but simply aren't calling them in until they see the more gross indicators.) But that doesn't mean that we're any better at spotting armed persons than an unsworn citizen is. I certainly received no training in it in academy beyond a short lecture. Most of my training in it came from having a father who carried plainclothes every day, and expected me to tell him if I could see that he printed.

The reason to carry a spare magazine, for an auto loader, is to be able to immediately fix the #1 most likely source of failure in your pistol.

oldman1946"Neither of us has sustained mag failure but maybe we invest in better equipment or take better care of our gear."

If you have NEVER experienced a magazine failure, than I submit that you either have drastically over-estimated your round count and trigger time, OR you have not been correctly diagnosing failures on the range (surely you're not going to tell me that you've never had a stoppage?), OR you are the single most lucky shooter in the history of Ever. The question is, will that luck hold, or have you run out?

[Art Eatman]

At around age 64 with forty years of experience in messing with handguns I don't guess I had thought all that much about carrying a spare mag for my LW Commander. Lifestyle and location thing, maybe. IPSC matches in 1981-1983, sure. But not being all that set in my ways, I figured that having a little extra help for a social occasion made sense.

That was a tad over eleven years ago. I'm not really convinced that I'll quit considering different ideas. I'd sure hate to be all ossified in my thinking...

[divemedic]

If it gets turned over to a Grand Jury, your spare ammo will be used against you. In the event you are not familar with Grand Jury, only the prosecution side is presented. Your defense atty or yourself will not be present and your side will not be heard. Having a box of shells on you will not go in your favor. From there, things will get costly for you.

I never have bought into this line of thinking. A good shoot is a good shoot. Carrying spare ammo is not going to make a good shoot into a bad one. Besides, the grand jury means nothing. A grand jury can indict a ham sandwich. Since you cannot present your (defense ) case, it won't matter if the only bullet you had was the one you put in a serial rapist's brainpan while he was stabbing his latest victim, because if you get a DA that is scummy enough to use a spare mag against you, he will be scummy enough to make sure that all the jury will hear is that the man you shot went to church on Sunday and helped little old ladies across the street, and you shot him because you were a gun nut and carried a gun with you everywhere you went, because you were a paranoid right wing wannabe Rambo vigilante. Even without a spare mag, he will try to paint you to be the bad guy, if he is so inclined.

Your side comes out in trial. That is where you raise your defense.

BTW: You claim that you fire 5,000-8,000 rounds a month, and you have been a LEO for 38 years and have never experienced a magazine failure, and neither have your uncle or cousins. A total of 118 years of shooting between you at 5,000 rounds a month. Doing the math (5,000*12*118)= about 7 to 11 million rounds fired without a single mag failure? That is pure BS.

[JohnKSa]

I have 38 yrs in LE. My uncle retired with 40 yrs. Two of my cousins has about 20 yrs each and with us shooting in training, competitions and such, not one of us have sustained mag failure.
...
I shoot between 5,000-8,000 rounds a month both privately and in competition.

Just to clarify, you're saying you shoot 60,000 to 96,000 rounds a year (an average of about 1500 rounds a week) and have never had a mag failure?

A few questions:

1. How do you define the term: "mag failure"?
2. How many of those rounds are shot from semi-autos?
3. What kind of magazines do you use?
4. What kind of preventive maintenance do you do?

[Tamara]

I just want to know where he buys his mags.

Originally Posted by oldman1946

Neither of us has sustained mag failure but maybe we invest in better equipment or take better care of our gear.

Doubtful.

Look, I know some people who approach the 5k-8k/month mark. They are either factory-sponsored high-level IPSC/IDPA shooters who are shooting OPA, or full-time high-end trainers. Maybe members of some extremely high-speed/low-drag outfits hit that pace in a pre-deployment workup.

If you're working a 40-hr/wk. job, OTOH, that's 31-50 rounds every single hour you're not sleeping or at work. You sure you want to stick with that claim?

[Don P]

If it gets turned over to a Grand Jury, your spare ammo will be used against you. In the event you are not familar with Grand Jury, only the prosecution side is presented. Your defense atty or yourself will not be present and your side will not be heard. Having a box of shells on you will not go in your favor. From there, things will get costly for you.

I do believe that this is a untrue statement. As Massad has stated before, as long as you are not out doing LE ( 6-12 extra mags) you will be ok in court. LE carries extra mags, so why can't a CCW holder? Some LE carry 40S&W Hollow points so if we carry 40S&W hollow points its a no no I think not.

[KSFreeman]

"Neither of us has sustained mag failure but maybe we invest in better equipment or take better care of our gear."

If you look at this photo,

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...2&d=1262057908

you will see that the magazine that failed is a top of the line Metalform magazine. All magazines, Les Baer, Metalform, Wilson, inter alia, will fail, it is only a matter of time.

Sometimes magazines fail without a single round being fired. Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch often tells of such an happening when he was serving with the Allen County (Indiana) Sheriff's Department.

ACSD carried 1911s at the time. Deputy Smith was dispatched to a call, arrived at the address and then exited his scout car. Upon exiting, his magazine's lip caught the car door and dropped his rounds at his feet.

Smith simply reloaded and continued on with the call. If he had carried no spare magazine, he would have had a single shot weapon.

[Dust Monkey]

Where to start, where to start.

I am 64 yrs of age and set in my ways. You do not know me at all yet I have been written about in law enforcement mags and in the law books. I shoot between 5,000-8,000 rounds a month both privately and in competition. My youngest daughter is a medical professional and she and I shot competitively for years. Neither of us has sustained mag failure but maybe we invest in better equipment or take better care of our gear.

I was one of the advisory panel when the CCW law was being revised here 20 years ago and long before most here was too young to be shooting. Over the years I have seen an evolution in the public carry and that disturbs me. Walk a mile in my shoes and see what I do. The only way you will ever see me is if there is a fatality or multiple serious injury where an expert in the field is needed. I travel over 60,000 miles a year looking at such, both at the crime scene when possible and afterward when circumstances warrant. Much of my time is spent in courts on this type cases.

This is a good a place as any to start. The above is pretty ripe with questions.

You do not know me at all yet I have been written about in law enforcement mags and in the law books.

Please list them, so we can research and learn from your experiences.

Neither of us has sustained mag failure but maybe we invest in better equipment or take better care of our gear.

If you shoot as much as you claim, and never sustained a mag failure you are either a liar or a very lucky shooter. As far as better gear, I made over $130K last year (yes the oilfield was good to me) and I can afford to purchase the best if I choose. My Ed Brown gave me problems. Ed Brown makes some of the best Handguns in the 1911 market. It had to go back to be fixed. I have seen glocks jam, HKs jam, etc... So If you know of a better place to get equipment, supplies that are top shelf, let me know, I would like to have the "best" to use.

If you consider the view of the anti gunners, the elderly and those without a position on guns, seeing one with a gun on their side is somewhat upsetting. Seeing a belt lined with magazines becomes a source of concern as to why they need that much.

To be blunt. Its none of your business what I need. Nor is it anyone elses business. If I have to ever defend myself, my actions, not what I carry will speak. Need. PFFT.

I have so many other questions and remarks to what you have said, but will save those for later. Sir, you are welcome to your opinion, and I will fight for your right to speak that opinion. But you do not make any sense, and come across as a braggart that has no idea what he is talking about.

I and others on here have LE experience, myself both Military and civilian with a badge. And I do not see where you are coming from. Please, explain.

[Japle]

If you consider the view of the anti gunners, the elderly and those without a position on guns, seeing one with a gun on their side is somewhat upsetting. Seeing a belt lined with magazines becomes a source of concern as to why they need that much.

The idea that we shouldn’t carry extra ammo because it might make some people uncomfortable is absurd. Being afraid of the reactions of the ignorant is unworthy of an adult, much less a LEO.
That’s like telling Rosa Parks, “You can sit anywhere on the bus unless it makes some people uncomfortable. Then you have to move to the back. If enough people complain, you’ll have to get off the bus”.

It’s our right to go armed however we like, within the law. If it makes some people uncomfortable, tough. Bigots had to get used to black people sitting wherever they wanted. Nervous liberals will have to get used to having armed citizens going about their lawful business.

Expecting us to tone down the practice of out rights is expecting too much. It’s pandering to the fears of the ignorant.

[fustache44]

You do not know me at all yet I have been written about in law enforcement mags and in the law books.

I'll submit, that by word count alone in this thread, you're knocking on at least half a dozen magazine articles, and several footnotes in "law books"

I'd also love to see some links/bibliography on those.


I simply don't understand why anyone would downplay/poo poo the carry of useful tools. Flashlights and spare mags are friggin' gimmies...




http://www.edcforums.com/

Go forth, and be educated. (even if you're "64 yrs of age and set in my ways")

[fustache44]

Also, getting back more to the OP, I can't imagine leaving the house without my SOG multi tool, either.

[Don P]

I just want to know where he buys his mags.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldman1946
Neither of us has sustained mag failure but maybe we invest in better equipment or take better care of our gear.

I too would like to know where to get his mags. Just last week I had a mag failure with my 92FS and a failure with my 1911. Guess I am buying junk.