Old Military Service Pistol

[jdthomas]

Up in the attic of my parents' house, I found my grandfather's old military (Marines) service revolver. Still has the registration receipt with it, dated 1957. I've got various questions now. Does anyone know if it is legal to possess? Should he have returned it when he was discharged? Do I need to contact the Marines and report it (as "missing gov't property")? Will they even want it back at this point? I'm in Virginia, I know guns don't need to be registered here, but (if I'm allowed to possess it) do I need to do something to prove how I am the new owner, since I guess technically it is still registered to my grandfather and it was never "sold" or "transferred" to me. Unless just my possessing it now constitutes a legal transfer.....first post, so any and all advice appreciated!

[kraigwy]

Unless other family members say different, its yours, its legal, don't worry about it.

Of course if you have to fight other family members for it, that's a different matter.

All you really have to do is to post pictures. I like military service pistols, I'm assuming its a 1911a1, and hope its in original condition.

[mwells72774]

Since the op said "service revolver" im doubting its a 1911

[RJay]

Unless your state requires it. You don't need to do anything. As stated it's yours, The Marine Corp doesn't want it, Even if your Uncle did " borrow it long term " which I doubt. He probably picked it up after service because it reminded him of past times. That is a common failure, if someone was in the service, then after death , going through his effects they find a firearm, well he was in the Marines, then this must be his service firearm. In 99 and 9/10 of the time this is the wrong assumption. I have even seen people ask if a pellet gun they found was a persons " service pistol ". It is yours to do with as you wish ( as long as it is legal). Even, if it was at one time military property, there is no longer any record of it anywhere.

[JimmyR]

Originally Posted by kraigwy

Unless other family members say different, its yours, its legal, don't worry about it.

This is gonna be the kicker. If it was found at your parents' house, then it would be safe to presume them to be the owners of the weapon. You would need them to give the OK (if they are still alive to give such permission).

If your intention is to sell it, I would suggest the honorable thing would be to share the funds with your family, or allow someone who wants to keep it as a memento to have it. If you want to keep the weapon, and your parents give the OK, then by all means, take good care of her, and post some pics.

[wally626]

In VA as long as you are not a prohibited person, felon, drug user etc. Then you can posses a gun. In private transfers there are no requirements for background checks or permission to purchase. There are some restrictions for persons under 18. You can own it, but can not carry it outside the home without direct supervision.

The only possible problem in VA would be with guns that are fully automatic, stolen and that sort of thing.

[Willie Sutton]

Since the Marines haven't used Revolvers since the Moro Insurrection, and there is a receipt dated in the late 50's, what you probably have is what he bought at a hardware store someplace. Pics or an accurate description of make and caliber would be helpful.

The revolver is yours, or whoever legally owns the estate. Discuss it within the family, and let whoever ends up with it enjoy the heirloom.


Willie

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[carguychris]

Since the Marines haven't used Revolvers since the Moro Insurrection, and there is a receipt dated in the late 50's, what you probably have is what he bought at a hardware store someplace.

Willie is absolutely right, and I'll go out on a limb and give you some more information.

A very large number of WWII-era Smith & Wesson 6-shot .38-caliber revolvers were send to the British military during the war under the Lend-Lease Act, then subsequently reimported and sold on the American commercial market in the 1950s and early 1960s when the UK converted to 9mm semi-automatic pistols. These revolvers were marked UNITED STATES PROPERTY on the topstrap, but this is essentially a legal sham required by the Lend-Lease Act, under the pretense that we were "lending" the revolvers to the British when the US was officially neutral; however, other than a handful of revolvers that somehow rerouted to American domestic security forces, these guns were never used by the American military.

The former British guns are VERY common, as they were sold by a large variety of retailers- commonly hardware stores and gas stations- for very low prices. Hallmarks are a *.38 S&W CTG.* barrel marking, numerous small crown proof marks, and often a large and ugly 2-1/2 TONS proof at the barrel/frame interface. Most of these guns originally had 5" barrels, but these were often shortened for commercial sale. All of these guns were originally chambered in .38 Smith & Wesson, a shorter, lower-powered and slightly larger-diameter round that the more common .38 Special cartridge; however, many of these guns were converted to .38 Special for commercial sale.

American forces used a number of very similar S&W and Colt revolvers with 4" barrels chambered in .38 Special. These were most often issued to aircrew, military police, and various rear-echelon troops. A few were misleadingly marked U.S.M.C., but this was an abbreviation for the U.S. Maritime Commission; they were NOT used by the Marines. Many of these guns have also been sold as surplus; there are fewer of them in circulation than the former British guns, as fewer were built and the US military reportedly still has many stashed in warehouses, but there are still enough around that they are encountered with some frequency.

US forces also used a number of large-frame Colt and S&W revolvers during the WWI era. These were originally chambered in .45 ACP (aka .45 Auto) and marked "D.A. .45", but some have been converted to other cartridges. These were marked U.S. ARMY MODEL 1917 on the butt.

[jdthomas]

Hey guys, thanks for all the responses. Very helpful information.

OK, so it seems I am good with keeping it (not a felon, no other family members wanting it, etc.) And a few of you were correct in thinking that it was not a service weapon. My bad, I should have known by the caliber (and brand for that matter), but I was thinking that it could have been one of several weapons that he was issued. And, in the case with the gun is a registration receipt with the Camp Lejeune Office of Military Police. I mistook that for a receipt of issuance, but he must have just bought it on his own and then registered it with the base police.

It's a Ruger Single Six. Nice gun, in good shape and all original. Looking forward to trying it out. Thanks again all.

[Willie Sutton]

Nice cowboy Ruger.

Never used as a martial arm, closest thing would be the Army Colt of 1873...


And, yes, the receipt is very likely one he got when he did a registration with the post MP's. Keep it all together, just because it's interesting.


Enjoy it!


Willie

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[2ndsojourn]

Nice condition, especially for being stored in an attic for an untold number of years.

[jdthomas]

I have a feeling it wasn't fired all that much, but yeah, it's been stored away in a leather pouch, inside a foot locker for at least 40 years. Three loose rounds also inside the pouch!

[csmsss]

JD, FYI...your pistol is the first model Single Six which does not have a transfer bar safety (not having the transfer bar is a GOOD thing - the trigger is better). This means, however, that should it be dropped, the hammer could possibly strike the firing pin, which could strike the primer of any cartridge in the firing position.

Ruger will, free of charge, add a transfer bar safety to that revolver if you send it to them - however, that will reduce the value of the revolver. My suggestion to you would be to leave the pistol alone and always keep the pistol with the hammer down on an empty chamber.

[jdthomas]

Yep, I am aware of that csmsss, but very good of you to point that out. I don't plan on having the transfer bar installed. I do plan on being extra conscious about it and safe, however! Thanks!

[csmsss]

No problem. Enjoy your find!

[ClydeFrog]

You may want to contact the NCIS or maybe the US Navy JAG(Judge Advocate General) office of the closest US Navy or USMC installation near you.

They may just tell you to keep it.

CF
www.ncis.navy.mil

[csmsss]

You may want to contact the NCIS or maybe the US Navy JAG(Judge Advocate General) office of the closest US Navy or USMC installation near you.

Why on earth would he want to do that? There's no reason to think this was ever U.S. Govt. property.

[jdthomas]

The previous respondants helped me realize that I was mistaken in my original thinking. The Ruger Single Six was never a military-issue service weapon, and this was apparently a private purchase that my grandfather made and then registered with the MPs at Lejeune.

[ClydeFrog]

What many civilians do not understand or may not be aware of is what the DoD/military calls; LOGSEC, or logistics security.
When I was on active duty in the early 1990s, I read a article about how the Army's CIDC(criminal investigations command) tracked down a HMMWV or "hummer" that was sent back & forth in military shipments by mistake.

The US military "loses" stuff all the time. Investigators are trained to recover missing items.

CF

[Evan Thomas]

Originally Posted by ClydeFrog

The US military "loses" stuff all the time. Investigators are trained to recover missing items.

Without a doubt, but that's not relevant here.

Originally Posted by jdthomas

The Ruger Single Six was never a military-issue service weapon, and this was apparently a private purchase that my grandfather made and then registered with the MPs at Lejeune.

The military cannot have "lost" something that was never theirs in the first place.

[+1k ammo]

Right it was never the militaries. Even if it was, they have better things to do than track down old revolvers. Maybe if they lost a HUMVEE, but not an old pistol.

Also, if your grandfather passed, then there is no real paperwork as it is now transferred to sons/daughters by inheritance. I looked it up here in MIchigan and Illinois cause my Dad was worried about his collection when he was going into the hospital. He thought since all his guns were not registered after he moved they would be taken away. But it does not matter, if he had died (he is fine now btw) the guns would be transferred to Mom first, and then to us kids as per his will.

So even skipping a generation, the gun is yours as heir of your grandfather.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Since the legal question is resolved, I'm moving this to the revolver forum for continued discussion of the firearm itself....

[James K]

"It's a Ruger Single Six."

So much for all the posts about military weapons, past and present. Just goes to show that speculation and guesswork without adequate information can be a big waste of time.

Jim

[SIGSHR]

In the 1966 edition of W.H.B. Smith's Small Arms of the World he describes the S&W Combat Masterpiece as "a favorite among Marines in Korea" and I read a story in one of the gun magazines years ago about a Marine captain using his against the Reds. Naval aviators in WWII carried the S&W M&P Victory Model.

[ClydeFrog]

When I was on active duty during Operation: Desert Shield & later Desert Storm, I saw a Stars & Stripes photo of a combat fighter pilot(unknown if he was Navy or USMC) on the flight deck of a aircraft carrier near Iraq.
The pilot wore a full flight suit with SERE(escape & evasion)vest & slung low on his hip in a leather holster was a big Colt 6" barrel .357magnum revolver, .

I doubt the 6 shooter was milspec but he looked ready to handle any bad guys if he was shot down in SW Asia.

CF