Newbie questions about 45 colt.

RedneckFur · April 15, 2011, 08:16 PM

Recently traded for a 45 colt Ruger 'old' Vaquero.

I plan to start handloading for this revolver as soon as I can get the dies, primers, and bullets for it. I've been loading 308, 30-30, and 38 specia/357 mag for a few years now.

Before I get started though, I've got some questions about the 45 colt, and the Vaquero.

I know the 45colt is an old cartridge, like the 38 special, and that the measured caliber is realy the case diameter. Is a 45 colt really a '45' or something slightly smaller? Is a 45 colt bullet the same diameter as a 45acp bullet? Is it ok to load 45acp hardball slugs in 45 colt brass?

I'm trying to learn all that I can about the 45 colt and the vaquero before I get started working up loads for it. I've also read in a few corners of the internet that an old vaquero can handle stout 45 loads, similar in strength to a 44 magnum, but that the 'New' Vaquero cannot. Can any of you experienced shooters verify this?

I want to learn as much as possible about loading 45 colt before I start working up loads. I'll be using the search function to learn about other's experiences.

Ralph Allen · April 15, 2011, 10:13 PM

I'm certain you can load 230 gr in 45C cases, but the original and correct bullet is a 255 grain lead bullet. Most 45 ACP bullets are sized .451 0r .452. Colt bullets are sized slightly larger. Depends on where you buy your bullets. You can get them sized up to .454 or .455. Reloading is definately the way to go in 45 Colt, as this is an expensive factory round. Don't know anything about the Vaquero. I have a New Service that I only shoot factory comparable loads in and a Marlin 1894 that I can shoot some impressive loads in. A very fun round to shoot. Enjoy.
Ralph

DaleA · April 15, 2011, 10:32 PM

While there's a ton of information in this forum and on the web I'd really suggest heading for a reloading manual (Speer, Lyman etc).

When they go through all the trouble of printing it up in a book and then put their name on it I have to believe it's usually good information.

I believe the Speer manual #14 has information specific to the new and old model Ruger Vaquero.

454PB · April 15, 2011, 10:47 PM

The "old Vaquero" could handle "Ruger only" pressures, the "new Vaquero" can't.

Modern .45 Colts such as the Ruger BH and Vaquero are designed for .451" to .452" bullets, and bullets for .45 ACP can be used.

If you plan to use cast or swaged lead bullets, it's a good idea to measure the cylinder throats. Some owners have found them unsized, which can cause leading and inaccuracy. The best solution for that problem, if it exists, is to ream the throats to .4525".

As a hard core bullet caster, I measure both the bore and cylinder throats of every revolver I own, and size the cast bullets accordingly.

jmortimer · April 15, 2011, 11:06 PM

"If you plan to use cast or swaged lead bullets, it's a good idea to measure the cylinder throats. Some owners have found them unsized, which can cause leading and inaccuracy"
That is some good advice if you own an "Old" Vaquero which will take "Ruger Only" loads. I have owned both "new" and Old" Vaqueros and the "new" Vaqueros can take 20K psi loads which is "+P" but not "Ruger Only" levels and the "new" Vaqueros have tight tolerances whereas the "old" Vaqueros are not so tight tolerance wise. I think the "new" Vaquero is perfect and the "old" Vaquero kicks a$$.

BigBob3006 · April 16, 2011, 01:17 AM

Redneckfur,

How about I just throw some information out here and you take what you want.

The .45 Colt, or Long colt as it is sometimes known as first came on the scene in 1873, and was loaded with forty grains of black powder and a 255gr lead bullet. About the turn of 1900 smokeless powder replaced black powder as the propellant in this old work horse. I've been told that the term Long Colt originated in the U.S. Army. The officers at that time were using the Scofield break action, single action pistol that was also a .45 round. The Army adopted the term long colt when ordering ammo for the troops using the Colt pistol and .45 for the short round used in the Schofield. Now I can't swear to this, but the man who told it to me seem to know what he was talking about.

To add to the confusion, Colt pistols made before the start of WW II had a bore diameter of .454" Once the war was over and Colt started producing The Single Action Army in an attempt to standardize .45 calibers at .451". As a rule, firing jacketed bullets the bullets have a diameter .451". Lead bullets fired in the same pistol are normally sized .452" This bullet will conform to a bore and give better performance than a .451 diameter lead bullet. This holds true for all pistols and rifles.

The Original Ruger Vaquero was made on the Blackhawk frame. This frame was intended to handle magnum type loads. The purist of the Cowboy Action Shooting groups thought the Blackhawk was not a true representation of the early frontier days and wanted something a little closer to the old Colts.
Hence the New Vaquero. The old Vaquero can indeed be loaded to screaming
loads. If that's what you want, you have the pistol to do it with. The same bullets you load for a .45 ACP can be loaded in your Vaquero.

Well I hope that this is of some help and things are much clearer now.

RedneckFur · April 16, 2011, 08:32 PM

Thank you all for the good information. Alot of the information about the revolver has been answered.

I'm going to be looking all over the internet and in the firearms books I've got to get as much information as I can.

Thanks!

GeauxTide · April 16, 2011, 09:06 PM

The old model Vaquero can safely handle the 25-30k Ruger only loads. I found the recoil of a 275gr bullet @ 1050fps difficult to control in my 7.5" Standard Blackhawk, weighing about 42 oz. My Bisley 45 weighs 46 oz and the grips allow a full purchase. I found that staying with 255gr bullets at about 950-1000 gave me good control in the Blackhawk with good power.

jfrey · April 16, 2011, 10:29 PM

If you intend to shoot loads that approach the .454 Casull, the "old" model will handle it but you will find that shooting such loads a lot is not fun. The new Vaquero, by design, isn't able to handle such loads and long strings of shooting at the lower power level are enjoyable.

I load for mine using Unique powder and 255 gr. bullets. This makes a very enjoyable load no matter which model you have.

April 15, 2011, 11:06 PM	#5
jmortimer Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Location: South West Riverside County California Posts: 2,763	"If you plan to use cast or swaged lead bullets, it's a good idea to measure the cylinder throats. Some owners have found them unsized, which can cause leading and inaccuracy" That is some good advice if you own an "Old" Vaquero which will take "Ruger Only" loads. I have owned both "new" and Old" Vaqueros and the "new" Vaqueros can take 20K psi loads which is "+P" but not "Ruger Only" levels and the "new" Vaqueros have tight tolerances whereas the "old" Vaqueros are not so tight tolerance wise. I think the "new" Vaquero is perfect and the "old" Vaquero kicks a$$. Last edited by jmortimer; April 15, 2011 at 11:15 PM.

April 16, 2011, 01:17 AM	#6
BigBob3006 Member Join Date: February 19, 2011 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 80	Redneckfur, How about I just throw some information out here and you take what you want. The .45 Colt, or Long colt as it is sometimes known as first came on the scene in 1873, and was loaded with forty grains of black powder and a 255gr lead bullet. About the turn of 1900 smokeless powder replaced black powder as the propellant in this old work horse. I've been told that the term Long Colt originated in the U.S. Army. The officers at that time were using the Scofield break action, single action pistol that was also a .45 round. The Army adopted the term long colt when ordering ammo for the troops using the Colt pistol and .45 for the short round used in the Schofield. Now I can't swear to this, but the man who told it to me seem to know what he was talking about. To add to the confusion, Colt pistols made before the start of WW II had a bore diameter of .454" Once the war was over and Colt started producing The Single Action Army in an attempt to standardize .45 calibers at .451". As a rule, firing jacketed bullets the bullets have a diameter .451". Lead bullets fired in the same pistol are normally sized .452" This bullet will conform to a bore and give better performance than a .451 diameter lead bullet. This holds true for all pistols and rifles. The Original Ruger Vaquero was made on the Blackhawk frame. This frame was intended to handle magnum type loads. The purist of the Cowboy Action Shooting groups thought the Blackhawk was not a true representation of the early frontier days and wanted something a little closer to the old Colts. Hence the New Vaquero. The old Vaquero can indeed be loaded to screaming loads. If that's what you want, you have the pistol to do it with. The same bullets you load for a .45 ACP can be loaded in your Vaquero. Well I hope that this is of some help and things are much clearer now. __________________ Have a nice day. Good luck and God bless. Bob

April 16, 2011, 08:32 PM	#7
RedneckFur Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2007 Location: Central NC Posts: 1,424	Thank you all for the good information. Alot of the information about the revolver has been answered. I'm going to be looking all over the internet and in the firearms books I've got to get as much information as I can. Thanks! __________________ In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -George Orwell

April 15, 2011, 08:16 PM	#1
RedneckFur Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2007 Location: Central NC Posts: 1,424	Newbie questions about 45 colt. Recently traded for a 45 colt Ruger 'old' Vaquero. I plan to start handloading for this revolver as soon as I can get the dies, primers, and bullets for it. I've been loading 308, 30-30, and 38 specia/357 mag for a few years now. Before I get started though, I've got some questions about the 45 colt, and the Vaquero. I know the 45colt is an old cartridge, like the 38 special, and that the measured caliber is realy the case diameter. Is a 45 colt really a '45' or something slightly smaller? Is a 45 colt bullet the same diameter as a 45acp bullet? Is it ok to load 45acp hardball slugs in 45 colt brass? I'm trying to learn all that I can about the 45 colt and the vaquero before I get started working up loads for it. I've also read in a few corners of the internet that an old vaquero can handle stout 45 loads, similar in strength to a 44 magnum, but that the 'New' Vaquero cannot. Can any of you experienced shooters verify this? I want to learn as much as possible about loading 45 colt before I start working up loads. I'll be using the search function to learn about other's experiences. __________________ In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -George Orwell

April 15, 2011, 10:13 PM	#2
Ralph Allen Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2007 Posts: 436	I'm certain you can load 230 gr in 45C cases, but the original and correct bullet is a 255 grain lead bullet. Most 45 ACP bullets are sized .451 0r .452. Colt bullets are sized slightly larger. Depends on where you buy your bullets. You can get them sized up to .454 or .455. Reloading is definately the way to go in 45 Colt, as this is an expensive factory round. Don't know anything about the Vaquero. I have a New Service that I only shoot factory comparable loads in and a Marlin 1894 that I can shoot some impressive loads in. A very fun round to shoot. Enjoy. Ralph

April 15, 2011, 10:32 PM	#3
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,313	While there's a ton of information in this forum and on the web I'd really suggest heading for a reloading manual (Speer, Lyman etc). When they go through all the trouble of printing it up in a book and then put their name on it I have to believe it's usually good information. I believe the Speer manual #14 has information specific to the new and old model Ruger Vaquero.

April 15, 2011, 10:47 PM	#4
454PB Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Location: Helena, Mt. Posts: 122	The "old Vaquero" could handle "Ruger only" pressures, the "new Vaquero" can't. Modern .45 Colts such as the Ruger BH and Vaquero are designed for .451" to .452" bullets, and bullets for .45 ACP can be used. If you plan to use cast or swaged lead bullets, it's a good idea to measure the cylinder throats. Some owners have found them unsized, which can cause leading and inaccuracy. The best solution for that problem, if it exists, is to ream the throats to .4525". As a hard core bullet caster, I measure both the bore and cylinder throats of every revolver I own, and size the cast bullets accordingly.

April 16, 2011, 09:06 PM	#8
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,424	The old model Vaquero can safely handle the 25-30k Ruger only loads. I found the recoil of a 275gr bullet @ 1050fps difficult to control in my 7.5" Standard Blackhawk, weighing about 42 oz. My Bisley 45 weighs 46 oz and the grips allow a full purchase. I found that staying with 255gr bullets at about 950-1000 gave me good control in the Blackhawk with good power.

April 16, 2011, 10:29 PM	#9
jfrey Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Location: Coastal South Texas Posts: 557	If you intend to shoot loads that approach the .454 Casull, the "old" model will handle it but you will find that shooting such loads a lot is not fun. The new Vaquero, by design, isn't able to handle such loads and long strings of shooting at the lower power level are enjoyable. I load for mine using Unique powder and 255 gr. bullets. This makes a very enjoyable load no matter which model you have.