Is a 77 grain HPBT bullet a 77 grain HPT bullet?

JimDandy · November 7, 2012, 12:59 PM

Or does manufacturer make a recipe difference? I.e. I was at cabelas and started picking up some components for a recipe, had to switch back and forth between recipes until I thought I found all the right components to a single recipe only to get home and found out I mixed and matched...

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...2&cartridge=46

Says Reloader-15, 77 grain Sierra HPBT, Fed205M Primers. When I got home, I realized I had 77 grain HPBT from Nosler. Are those interchangeabe?

I also just realized I have Winchester Small Rifle primers, as opposed to the Federal 205M's. Are those interchangeable?

Brian Pfleuger · November 7, 2012, 01:25 PM

Nothing is "interchangeable".

Any change in components requires that the load be worked up from the listed starting charge, or for an established load at least 5% reduction.

That said, if you're working up a new load and you're starting at a published starting charge, virtually all components are "interchangeable". You aren't using the same lot # for your components as those listed in the manual, so you're already "interchanging" even if you're using the "identical" components.

HPBT versus HP:

The "BT" means Boat-Tail. So, you have Hollow-Point, Boat-Tailed bullets, versus Hollow-Point, not Boat-Tailed bullet. Any conventional copper jacket, lead core bullet that ways 77gr in caliber can be used to work up that load. The extra space taken up (or absent from) the boat tail is not really relevent to the load.

Yes, your bullets are perfectly fine for working up your load. Any bullet of the same (or even generally lesser) weight of similar construction can be substituted. These manuals are not The Word of God. They're starting points. For the most part, the only thing you need to watch for in equal weight bullets is dramatically different construction, such as substituting Barnes T/TSX bullets in place of traditional, copper-jacket, lead core bullets.

JimDandy · November 7, 2012, 01:31 PM

Whoops, that was a typo in the subject, they're both Hollow point boat tails. Just Nosler vs Sierra. So I can swap the Nosler I have for the Sierra in the recipe guideline? What about the primers?

Basically I'm asking do I need to go back to the store, and pick up the other half of both recipes, getting another bottle of powder to go with the Nosler bullets and WSR primers, as well as Sierra bullets and Federal primers to go with the Reloader powder?

I realize at some point I'm going to end up experimenting with different powder/bullet/primer recipes in various guides. Right now I just want to dip my toe in the water and get used to working the process. Hell, I expect eventually to have two recipes, a 62 grain plinking recipe, and a 77 grain showin' off recipe.

Brian Pfleuger · November 7, 2012, 01:38 PM

Read carefully what I said.

You're not using the same components that are listed in the manual.

What gun do they list? Often a "Universal Receiver", sometimes a regular rifle of some sort.

Are you using a Universal Receiver or the gun they're using?

No, you're not.

Your primers are fine. Your bullets are fine. It's all fine.

The reason for starting low and working up is because NOTHING you have matches what they have. Your bullets are different, even if they're the same brand. Your powder is different, lot # vary slightly in burn rate. Your cases are different, even "identical" by name and caliber vary by internal volume. Your gun is different. Your primers are different. It's all different.

Jimro · November 7, 2012, 01:50 PM

The bullets I would consider interchangeable based on my experience with Sierra and Nosler HPBTs in my rifles. You should not make the same assumption since you have different rifles. Once you do the load workup with each bullet, then you can make that assumption. Until then do not.

No brand of primer is interchangeable with any other. Always do a load workup.

Jimro

JimDandy · November 7, 2012, 01:52 PM

Yeah I got that part, and the working up from the starting load to the max and/or what is most accurate for your mechanism- But I also have heard the horror stories, and wanted to make sure there wasn't a catastrophic stealthy difference that wouldn't be visually readily apparent based on the thickness of the jacket of the HPBT between brands or some such esoteric issue cropping up. Thanks for the reassurance.

Jimro · November 7, 2012, 01:55 PM

For what it is worth the Sierra an Nosler 77gr HPBT bullets were both used in Mk262 Mod0 ammunition. So they are close enough to meet the same accuracy spec with the same powder/primer combo for the .mil

Jimro

JASmith · November 8, 2012, 07:11 PM

Check Nosler's web site for reloading data for the .223 -- chances are that one or more of your powders are there!

Load work up will still be in order, both for safety and for accuracy.

November 7, 2012, 12:59 PM	#1
JimDandy Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2012 Posts: 2,556	Is a 77 grain HPBT bullet a 77 grain HPT bullet? Or does manufacturer make a recipe difference? I.e. I was at cabelas and started picking up some components for a recipe, had to switch back and forth between recipes until I thought I found all the right components to a single recipe only to get home and found out I mixed and matched... http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...2&cartridge=46 Says Reloader-15, 77 grain Sierra HPBT, Fed205M Primers. When I got home, I realized I had 77 grain HPBT from Nosler. Are those interchangeabe? I also just realized I have Winchester Small Rifle primers, as opposed to the Federal 205M's. Are those interchangeable?

November 7, 2012, 01:25 PM	#2
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Nothing is "interchangeable". Any change in components requires that the load be worked up from the listed starting charge, or for an established load at least 5% reduction. That said, if you're working up a new load and you're starting at a published starting charge, virtually all components are "interchangeable". You aren't using the same lot # for your components as those listed in the manual, so you're already "interchanging" even if you're using the "identical" components. HPBT versus HP: The "BT" means Boat-Tail. So, you have Hollow-Point, Boat-Tailed bullets, versus Hollow-Point, not Boat-Tailed bullet. Any conventional copper jacket, lead core bullet that ways 77gr in caliber can be used to work up that load. The extra space taken up (or absent from) the boat tail is not really relevent to the load. Yes, your bullets are perfectly fine for working up your load. Any bullet of the same (or even generally lesser) weight of similar construction can be substituted. These manuals are not The Word of God. They're starting points. For the most part, the only thing you need to watch for in equal weight bullets is dramatically different construction, such as substituting Barnes T/TSX bullets in place of traditional, copper-jacket, lead core bullets. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

November 7, 2012, 01:38 PM	#4
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Read carefully what I said. You're not using the same components that are listed in the manual. What gun do they list? Often a "Universal Receiver", sometimes a regular rifle of some sort. Are you using a Universal Receiver or the gun they're using? No, you're not. Your primers are fine. Your bullets are fine. It's all fine. The reason for starting low and working up is because NOTHING you have matches what they have. Your bullets are different, even if they're the same brand. Your powder is different, lot # vary slightly in burn rate. Your cases are different, even "identical" by name and caliber vary by internal volume. Your gun is different. Your primers are different. It's all different. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

November 7, 2012, 01:50 PM	#5
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	The bullets I would consider interchangeable based on my experience with Sierra and Nosler HPBTs in my rifles. You should not make the same assumption since you have different rifles. Once you do the load workup with each bullet, then you can make that assumption. Until then do not. No brand of primer is interchangeable with any other. Always do a load workup. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

November 7, 2012, 01:55 PM	#7
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	For what it is worth the Sierra an Nosler 77gr HPBT bullets were both used in Mk262 Mod0 ammunition. So they are close enough to meet the same accuracy spec with the same powder/primer combo for the .mil Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

November 7, 2012, 01:31 PM	#3
JimDandy Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2012 Posts: 2,556	Whoops, that was a typo in the subject, they're both Hollow point boat tails. Just Nosler vs Sierra. So I can swap the Nosler I have for the Sierra in the recipe guideline? What about the primers? Basically I'm asking do I need to go back to the store, and pick up the other half of both recipes, getting another bottle of powder to go with the Nosler bullets and WSR primers, as well as Sierra bullets and Federal primers to go with the Reloader powder? I realize at some point I'm going to end up experimenting with different powder/bullet/primer recipes in various guides. Right now I just want to dip my toe in the water and get used to working the process. Hell, I expect eventually to have two recipes, a 62 grain plinking recipe, and a 77 grain showin' off recipe.

November 7, 2012, 01:52 PM	#6
JimDandy Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2012 Posts: 2,556	Yeah I got that part, and the working up from the starting load to the max and/or what is most accurate for your mechanism- But I also have heard the horror stories, and wanted to make sure there wasn't a catastrophic stealthy difference that wouldn't be visually readily apparent based on the thickness of the jacket of the HPBT between brands or some such esoteric issue cropping up. Thanks for the reassurance.

November 8, 2012, 07:11 PM	#8
JASmith Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2009 Posts: 157	Check Nosler's web site for reloading data for the .223 -- chances are that one or more of your powders are there! Load work up will still be in order, both for safety and for accuracy. __________________ Nevermore... http://shootersnotes.com

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