Last Night

SundownRider · October 31, 2007, 11:08 AM

Last night I was changing the full length screen in my front storm door to the full length glass pane. (October/Novemeber chore list). Anyway, I noticed a young man in dark clothing standing over by the street light that is on the corner of my property. He was doing nothing but standing there. As he noticed me looking at him, he flips me off and turns himself so he is facing away towards the street. There is no one else on the street that I can see.
I finish quickly and turn off the light that was backlighting me so I can see the kid. I grabbed a pen and paper and wrote his description down, at the same time turning on my outside lights. I called to my wife to call the cops to see if they could do a drive by, and I told her to call the neighbors as well, and let them know what was going on and to turn on their outside lights as well. There have been burglaries in my neighborhood in the past 3 months.
I kept an eye on the kid for a bit to see if he would move, and he finally trotted off when the first cruiser turned down the street.
I went outside to meet the police and give them the description and the general direction of the kid went.
That night, the XD40 was topped off and cell phone fully charged and both were within easy reach.

Any thoughts as to mistakes or things done differently? Just looking for helpful hints from those who have been there.

Hallucinator · October 31, 2007, 11:10 AM

I'm surprised the cops showed up. You must live in an upscale neighborhood.

Creature · October 31, 2007, 11:30 AM

I would have probably forced the issue myself if he standing on my property and flipped me off. I would probably have even taken a photo of him with my digi-camera (set on hi-res), just in case the police could use it.

Personally, I am seriously getting tired of the blatant arrogance and total lack of respect that the youth of today display to anyone these days.

But, otherwise I think you did just fine.

SundownRider · October 31, 2007, 11:57 AM

Not so very long ago I would have likely forced the issue, but with two little ones to look after, I'm a little more cautious these days.

Neighborhood is not so upscale, homes range in the 3-400K. It's a relatively quiet town with not much to do for the police besides traffic stops and underage drinking. Odd domestic disturbance here and there, nothing violent, yet, but it's coming.

dawg23 · October 31, 2007, 11:59 AM

Rider:

You did very well, especially by not "forcing the issue" as was suggested by another poster.

You were alert, you were prepared and you asked the appropriate law enforcement agency to investigate. You were not in imminent fear of death or grave injury, so you wisely refrained from a confrontation.

Congrats.

Wildalaska · October 31, 2007, 12:12 PM

So lets see: a kid is standing on a street corner and when he sees you staring him down and react you call the cops and top off your XD...and some of you would have, in the past "forced" the issue.

WildgladidontliveinyourareaAlaska ™

Dirty_Harry · October 31, 2007, 12:15 PM

I can't see a anything wrong here in what you did. I probably would not have been as smart as you.

DavidZ · October 31, 2007, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Neighborhood is not so upscale, homes range in the 3-400K.

Now that's comedy.

Seriously it's hard to judge whether you over/underreacted without being in your shoes. The only mistake I can point out is the way you say that you made sure to have the cell phone & pistol ready 'That night' - as if you're not doing so every night.

Nekron · October 31, 2007, 12:23 PM

The only thing you should change is to have the XD40 on your person (i.e., in a holster) instead of "within easy reach".

tepin · October 31, 2007, 12:28 PM

I have a lot of rats, punks and bangers in my neighborhood that cruise the sidewalk that passes right in front of my house. Not much I can do. The “kids” are always yelling and screaming at one another and sometimes run thought the yard in back of the house. In my specific case, I have chosen to ignore the issue as I do not want to start some type of war with these kids. I have a 9 to 5 job and cannot watch things 24x7. I do carry my Kimber Ultra CDP II when at home and when I am out-and-about. The wife recently got her permit and carries (somewhat infrequently). That’s about all we can do.

Sometimes we have to ignore the little things to prevent the big things from happening to us (picking and choosing our battles). However, always be aware of your surroundings (as you were) and it never hurts to let “the others” know that you are watching (as you did). Good job!

Night Watch · October 31, 2007, 12:31 PM

I doubt I would have handled it as well as you did; however, I'm always armed so ...

(By the way, you need to work on that stare; it's much too confrontational. What I would do is raise my support hand to wave, 'hello' before going inside to call the police and alert the neighbors.)

Creature · October 31, 2007, 04:04 PM

Quote:

So lets see: a kid is standing on a street corner and when he sees you staring him down and react you call the cops and top off your XD...and some of you would have, in the past "forced" the issue.

WildgladidontliveinyourareaAlaska ™

I am glad you don't live in my neighborhood either. Dont forget that the scumbag flipped off the property owner.

Scumbags, especially those who makes obscene gestures at me, certainly don't belong on my property. They can just move along.

Wildalaska · October 31, 2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Dont forget that the scumbag flipped off the property owner.

Awwwwwwwwwwwww...sobsobsob...;little punky shot me the bird, waaaaaaah Im calling the Popo and gettin my 870 ready

...

Quote:

Scumbags, especially those who makes obscene gestures at me, certainly don't belong on my property. They can just move along.

Yeah well what if he is on the public right of way??/

WildgiveitabreakitsjustateenagerAlaska ™

Justme · October 31, 2007, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Neighborhood is not so upscale, homes range in the 3-400K

Which is why I live in southern Ohio where upscale starts at 200,000 or so.

I don't think I would have survived teenagerhood with you guys around. I was once busted for stealing jack-o-lanterns. My brother, myself and three HS cheerleaders got to visit the sheriffs office on that one but nobody shot at us thank god.

rellascout · October 31, 2007, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Which is why I live in southern Ohio where upscale starts at 200,000 or so.

I don't think I would have survived teenagerhood with you guys around. I was once busted for stealing jack-o-lanterns. My brother, myself and three HS cheerleaders got to visit the sheriffs office on that one but nobody shot at us thank god.

I have to agree with that too. I think that people are over reacting. There was no evidence that this individual was doing anything wrong. You do not get to decide who gets to walk down the public street in front of your house. It does not sound like this kid every came on to the property. Am I missing something?

If I topped of my gun every time some one gave me the bird it would never been in a holster.

Creature · October 31, 2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Dont forget that the scumbag flipped off the property owner.

Awwwwwwwwwwwww...sobsobsob...;little punky shot me the bird, waaaaaaah Im calling the Popo and gettin my 870 ready...

Quote:

Scumbags, especially those who makes obscene gestures at me, certainly don't belong on my property. They can just move along.

Yeah well what if he is on the public right of way??/

WildgiveitabreakitsjustateenagerAlaska ™

And that is why this country is going in the toilet. Because no one teaches respect anymore and the hooligans just go on thinking that it is their God-given right to do what ever they want without consequences.

So, whatever...I will continue to flippin' the bird right back at those punks.

Justme · October 31, 2007, 05:18 PM

I called a 14 year old soccer player a "little ****" one day at practice. The kid had just gone around me, and it kinda slipped. My tactic worked though because the kid was laughing so hard he didn't score. He then bragged to the whole rest of the team, not that he beat me, which none of them had ever done before, but because he had made me swear at him. Much fun was had by all, and no parents were present(thank god).

I love giving teenagers the bird though. I do it all the time, especially in the car.

Walter · October 31, 2007, 10:14 PM

Quote:

I would have probably forced the issue myself if he standing on my property and flipped me off. I would probably have even taken a photo of him with my digi-camera (set on hi-res), just in case the police could use it.

I LIKE the idea of the digital camera. If you get a pic of the "flipper"
you can get it to the police. If the "flipper" sees you taking the pic,
maybe it will make him consider the possible repercussions of his actions.

Or maybe if he thinks he's going to get "mug-shot" every time he shows
up in your neighborhood, he'll go somewhere else.

Walter

Wildalaska · October 31, 2007, 10:31 PM

Is this the kid?

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=266917

WildlooksdangerousAlaska TM

kgpcr · October 31, 2007, 10:50 PM

I would have shot him just to be sure!! Cmon guys he flipped you off, were you staring at him? Guys who are burglars generaly dont want to be noticed at all. One of the funniest i have heard is a guy was looking at a kid with hair all different colors and spiked to the max. the kid asked him what the PUCK he was looking at, I guess he was staring a bit, any way the guy never misses a beat and says, when i was in vietnam i say a guy screw a peakock. I was just wondering if you were one of his kids, sorry to stare.

grymster2007 · October 31, 2007, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Which is why I live in southern Ohio where upscale starts at 200,000 or so.

try living in a $1.3m shack in Cali!

**JohnKSa** · October 31, 2007, 11:23 PM

Just a little FYI for Texans with CHLs who like to flip people off...

Flipping someone off in public can qualify as disorderly conduct and is sufficient offense to get your CHL suspended.

§ 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:
...
(2) makes an offensive gesture or display in a public place, and the gesture or display tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace;

§ 411.187. SUSPENSION OF LICENSE. (a) A license may be suspended under this section if the license holder:
(1) is charged with the commission of a Class A or Class B misdemeanor or an offense under Section 42.01, Penal Code, or of a felony under an information or indictment;

Wildalaska · October 31, 2007, 11:34 PM

That certainly raises free speech issues

WildbutheyitstexasAlaska TM

gvf · November 1, 2007, 04:25 AM

You responding to a "flip off" in any aggressive way (forcing the issue) would likely deny - or help to deny - your legal protection under SD law, had something escalated into your need to injure him, or worse. You cannot instigate or elevate an incident and then, if something happens, claim you were an innocent victim of someone else's aggression. For you participated in it.
So, NOT doing that, going into the house, calling the cops etc. is exactly right.

Besides, forcing what "issue", someone sanding on a street who sees you staring at him and gives you the flip, turns his back and looks at the street again? What issue, except he was surly and didn't like being watched. If he wasn't doing anything why would he. There is no "issue" here, he wasn't instigating a fight, he turned away and stood on the street.

threegun · November 1, 2007, 05:30 AM

I call the cops everytime/anytime I see a stranger "hanging" around. They don't mind and it is their job not mine. A quick call and description won't hurt anyone. It might help someone should the stranger be a real badguy. It will save the stranger multiple gunshot wounds should they attempt to harm me or mine. Bottom line it doesn't hurt to call the "POPO".

October 31, 2007, 11:08 AM	#1
SundownRider Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 509	Last Night Last night I was changing the full length screen in my front storm door to the full length glass pane. (October/Novemeber chore list). Anyway, I noticed a young man in dark clothing standing over by the street light that is on the corner of my property. He was doing nothing but standing there. As he noticed me looking at him, he flips me off and turns himself so he is facing away towards the street. There is no one else on the street that I can see. I finish quickly and turn off the light that was backlighting me so I can see the kid. I grabbed a pen and paper and wrote his description down, at the same time turning on my outside lights. I called to my wife to call the cops to see if they could do a drive by, and I told her to call the neighbors as well, and let them know what was going on and to turn on their outside lights as well. There have been burglaries in my neighborhood in the past 3 months. I kept an eye on the kid for a bit to see if he would move, and he finally trotted off when the first cruiser turned down the street. I went outside to meet the police and give them the description and the general direction of the kid went. That night, the XD40 was topped off and cell phone fully charged and both were within easy reach. Any thoughts as to mistakes or things done differently? Just looking for helpful hints from those who have been there. __________________ " Of every One-Hundred men, Ten shouldn't even be there, Eighty are nothing but targets, Nine are real fighters... We are lucky to have them...They make the battle. Ah, but the One, One of them is a Warrior... and He will bring the others back." - Heraclitus (circa 500 BC)

October 31, 2007, 11:10 AM	#2
Hallucinator Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2007 Posts: 396	I'm surprised the cops showed up. You must live in an upscale neighborhood. __________________ Sig 226, 228, 229, 232. XD45 Tactical. Smith Model 60 Chief's Special. Smith 1911. Mossberg 930 SPX. How we behave as gun owners is important. Posturing and threatening does not serve us well in the public eye.

October 31, 2007, 11:57 AM	#4
SundownRider Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 509	Not so very long ago I would have likely forced the issue, but with two little ones to look after, I'm a little more cautious these days. Neighborhood is not so upscale, homes range in the 3-400K. It's a relatively quiet town with not much to do for the police besides traffic stops and underage drinking. Odd domestic disturbance here and there, nothing violent, yet, but it's coming. __________________ " Of every One-Hundred men, Ten shouldn't even be there, Eighty are nothing but targets, Nine are real fighters... We are lucky to have them...They make the battle. Ah, but the One, One of them is a Warrior... and He will bring the others back." - Heraclitus (circa 500 BC)

October 31, 2007, 11:59 AM	#5
dawg23 Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2001 Location: Louisiana Posts: 403	Rider: You did very well, especially by not "forcing the issue" as was suggested by another poster. You were alert, you were prepared and you asked the appropriate law enforcement agency to investigate. You were not in imminent fear of death or grave injury, so you wisely refrained from a confrontation. Congrats. __________________ . www.PersonalDefenseTraining.net

October 31, 2007, 12:15 PM	#7
Dirty_Harry Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2006 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 1,484	I can't see a anything wrong here in what you did. I probably would not have been as smart as you. __________________ "The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you never should have laid down." "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them." -John Wayne

October 31, 2007, 11:30 AM	#3
Creature Junior member Join Date: April 8, 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,769	I would have probably forced the issue myself if he standing on my property and flipped me off. I would probably have even taken a photo of him with my digi-camera (set on hi-res), just in case the police could use it. Personally, I am seriously getting tired of the blatant arrogance and total lack of respect that the youth of today display to anyone these days. But, otherwise I think you did just fine.

October 31, 2007, 12:12 PM	#6
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	So lets see: a kid is standing on a street corner and when he sees you staring him down and react you call the cops and top off your XD...and some of you would have, in the past "forced" the issue. WildgladidontliveinyourareaAlaska ™

October 31, 2007, 12:23 PM	#9
Nekron Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 1999 Location: Kansas Posts: 139	The only thing you should change is to have the XD40 on your person (i.e., in a holster) instead of "within easy reach".

October 31, 2007, 12:28 PM	#10
tepin Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2006 Location: FL Posts: 129	I have a lot of rats, punks and bangers in my neighborhood that cruise the sidewalk that passes right in front of my house. Not much I can do. The “kids” are always yelling and screaming at one another and sometimes run thought the yard in back of the house. In my specific case, I have chosen to ignore the issue as I do not want to start some type of war with these kids. I have a 9 to 5 job and cannot watch things 24x7. I do carry my Kimber Ultra CDP II when at home and when I am out-and-about. The wife recently got her permit and carries (somewhat infrequently). That’s about all we can do. Sometimes we have to ignore the little things to prevent the big things from happening to us (picking and choosing our battles). However, always be aware of your surroundings (as you were) and it never hurts to let “the others” know that you are watching (as you did). Good job!

October 31, 2007, 12:31 PM	#11
Night Watch Registration in progress Join Date: June 30, 2005 Posts: 369	I doubt I would have handled it as well as you did; however, I'm always armed so ... (By the way, you need to work on that stare; it's much too confrontational. What I would do is raise my support hand to wave, 'hello' before going inside to call the police and alert the neighbors.) __________________ 'Things go wrong. The odds catch up. Probability is like gravity; and, you cannot negotiate with gravity. One other thing: God always has the last laugh. You need to remember that!'

October 31, 2007, 05:18 PM	#17
Justme Junior member Join Date: June 6, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,066	I called a 14 year old soccer player a "little ****" one day at practice. The kid had just gone around me, and it kinda slipped. My tactic worked though because the kid was laughing so hard he didn't score. He then bragged to the whole rest of the team, not that he beat me, which none of them had ever done before, but because he had made me swear at him. Much fun was had by all, and no parents were present(thank god). I love giving teenagers the bird though. I do it all the time, especially in the car.

October 31, 2007, 10:31 PM	#19
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	Is this the kid? http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=266917 WildlooksdangerousAlaska TM

October 31, 2007, 10:50 PM	#20
kgpcr Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2005 Posts: 955	I would have shot him just to be sure!! Cmon guys he flipped you off, were you staring at him? Guys who are burglars generaly dont want to be noticed at all. One of the funniest i have heard is a guy was looking at a kid with hair all different colors and spiked to the max. the kid asked him what the PUCK he was looking at, I guess he was staring a bit, any way the guy never misses a beat and says, when i was in vietnam i say a guy screw a peakock. I was just wondering if you were one of his kids, sorry to stare. __________________ Colt King Cobra .357 Colt Anaconda .44mag Springfield Armory .45 Double stack Loaded XD40 service XD45 Taurus 617 .357mag Smith M&P 40

October 31, 2007, 11:23 PM	#22
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,971	Just a little FYI for Texans with CHLs who like to flip people off... Flipping someone off in public can qualify as disorderly conduct and is sufficient offense to get your CHL suspended. § 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly: ... (2) makes an offensive gesture or display in a public place, and the gesture or display tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace; § 411.187. SUSPENSION OF LICENSE. (a) A license may be suspended under this section if the license holder: (1) is charged with the commission of a Class A or Class B misdemeanor or an offense under Section 42.01, Penal Code, or of a felony under an information or indictment; __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

October 31, 2007, 11:34 PM	#23
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	That certainly raises free speech issues WildbutheyitstexasAlaska TM

November 1, 2007, 04:25 AM	#24
gvf Junior member Join Date: July 30, 2006 Posts: 1,226	You responding to a "flip off" in any aggressive way (forcing the issue) would likely deny - or help to deny - your legal protection under SD law, had something escalated into your need to injure him, or worse. You cannot instigate or elevate an incident and then, if something happens, claim you were an innocent victim of someone else's aggression. For you participated in it. So, NOT doing that, going into the house, calling the cops etc. is exactly right. Besides, forcing what "issue", someone sanding on a street who sees you staring at him and gives you the flip, turns his back and looks at the street again? What issue, except he was surly and didn't like being watched. If he wasn't doing anything why would he. There is no "issue" here, he wasn't instigating a fight, he turned away and stood on the street.

November 1, 2007, 05:30 AM	#25
threegun Junior member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Location: Tampa,Fl Posts: 4,000	I call the cops everytime/anytime I see a stranger "hanging" around. They don't mind and it is their job not mine. A quick call and description won't hurt anyone. It might help someone should the stranger be a real badguy. It will save the stranger multiple gunshot wounds should they attempt to harm me or mine. Bottom line it doesn't hurt to call the "POPO".

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