223 OAL question

Lilswede1 · January 8, 2009, 12:22 AM

Just found 500 Sierra Blitzking Bullets. Components are scarce.
I shoot a CZ 527 Bolt Action 223.
Using a Hornady OAL Measure I come up with a OAL of 2.320.
Used a RCBS Precison Mic to compare the Hornady case with a fireformed case from that gun. They were within .001.
My gun shoots really well with .005 - .010 clearance (freebore?) before the bullet touches the lands.
That means I will have to load these Blitzkings to 2.310.
The book says a max. OAL of 2.260.
Anyone run into this situation.

hardhit · January 8, 2009, 01:24 AM

Iv not really payed much attention to what the OAL says in the reload book. But iv been reloading for a long time, I take the measurement from my OAL gauge of the rifle im loading for, and seat bullets accordingly..- normally .10 off the lands if possible.

Qtiphky · January 8, 2009, 07:46 AM

My understanding from my reading is that the COAL is just for the uniformity and compatibility with magazines and not specific rifles. Meaning, your rifle may be able to hold a bullet with a longer OAL, but those bullets may not work in another gun or magazine.

steve4102 · January 8, 2009, 08:02 AM

OAL listed in manuals is nothing more than a number they used. It does not mean you must use their listed OAL Here is Accurate Powder says about OAL.

"SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”
It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must
be seen as a guideline only.
The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.
This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as 1) magazine length (space), 2) freebore-lead dimensions of
the barrel, 3) ogive or profile of the projectile and 4) position of cannelure or crimp groove."

cgaengineer · January 8, 2009, 08:45 AM

Thats great information Steve. Thanks for posting it.

amamnn · January 8, 2009, 01:14 PM

The base to tip measure of a bullet or of a complete cartridge as noted above is only a rough guide. The important measure that you want to keep uniform for best accuracy is the ogive to base measure. The ogive is the curved part of the bullet that will actually first contact the lands upon firing.

If you are going to be loading for best possible accuracy, and your rifle and you are capable of getting the most out of a round, you may want to buy a bullet comparator. A lot of match shooters like the Sinclair hex comparator since it is reamed using the same type tool with which chambers are cut. Since you already have the RCBS tool you may prefer to use the land nut to check for ogive to base cartridge uniformity. I find the hex more convenient since I cull bullets and trim mepplats, but the lands nut will work for measuring the finished product just as well.

Keep in mind that your seating die does not index on the ogive but somewhere between it and (or on) the tip. Unless you knew that you would only use a particular ogive for all the rest of your days, or had the means to buy different parts for different bullets, a seater stem that indexed on the ogive would not be practical. Still, you can get uniform seating to the Nth degree using your tools and patience. It can pay off with a slight accuracy improvement.

IllinoisCoyoteHunter · January 8, 2009, 03:46 PM

yeah...my vlds i load are WAY over the manuals COAL.

the machinist · January 8, 2009, 05:34 PM

If I remember correctly the last time I measured a Rem. factory round it was 2.175

rn22723 · January 8, 2009, 07:53 PM

I think you can find an accurate load that is able to be fed out of the magazine of your gun. The potential problem is that loading short bullets long, may not leave enough of the bullet of the case neck. The rule of thumb is to have at least one caliber length of the bullet in the case neck.
You ought to follow the suggested loading length of Sierra.

Lilswede1 · January 8, 2009, 08:17 PM

I've loaded up 5 ea. rounds from 2.270 to 2.310 and will check them all out at the range soon.
All chamber and eject really well so I believe I am within tolerances of a safe and accurate round.
May take a bit to get to my range tho. I live in NW Wash State and all roads to out private range and lake are closed.
Mud slides and flood damage all over the place.
That's OK - gives me more time to make sure my case prep is as good and thorough as I can get it.

arizona98tj · January 8, 2009, 10:34 PM

Quote:

The potential problem is that loading short bullets long, may not leave enough of the bullet of the case neck.

And as everyone should realize, loading long bullets short will most likely cause an increase in pressure.

Don't work your loads up with one COAL and then seat the bullet notably deeper without backing off on the charge and working it up again.

swmike · January 9, 2009, 10:03 PM

Lilswede1-

The 2.260 max COAL shown in most reloading manuals is for ammo shot in an AR-15/M-16. Ammo over 2.260" in length will not feed reliably in standard issue rifles like these. If you are loading for a bolt action, go ahead and load for max length with desired freebore. If loading for an AR keep it under 2.260 (I use 2.250 for my loads) so it will not jam in the magazine or when feeding.

Uncle Chan · January 10, 2009, 11:17 AM

I load mine to 2.1-2.14 so that they can fit and function well in the magazine (Mini-14).

Calif-Mini · January 12, 2009, 12:48 PM

Most Mimi-14's will feed 2.260 without a problem. Even can go up to 2.275 but can start encountering FTF near there as magazine is too short to function with the long rounds.

If there is any need to use longer rounds, one can hand feed them in a semi-auto but it will depend on your specific magazine on the CZ bolt action. Not familiar with your CZ but as someone else stated try to keep your loads in a straight forward manner and don't let the excitement of going to the magic load cloud a possible over pressure situation. Some chambers will work on slightly higher pressure and others might be pushing it a little.

The rules on shooting usually start with "Safety" then have fun in any direction the sport takes you.

A lot of good thoughts above for you to digest from several "shooters".

Have fun, Ed

amamnn · January 13, 2009, 01:07 AM

Looks like good shooting weather this week Lilswede unless you're busy repairing things the weight of the snow and rain knocked down...... like I am.

January 8, 2009, 12:22 AM	#1
Lilswede1 Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2008 Location: NW Wash State Posts: 216	223 OAL question Just found 500 Sierra Blitzking Bullets. Components are scarce. I shoot a CZ 527 Bolt Action 223. Using a Hornady OAL Measure I come up with a OAL of 2.320. Used a RCBS Precison Mic to compare the Hornady case with a fireformed case from that gun. They were within .001. My gun shoots really well with .005 - .010 clearance (freebore?) before the bullet touches the lands. That means I will have to load these Blitzkings to 2.310. The book says a max. OAL of 2.260. Anyone run into this situation.

January 8, 2009, 01:14 PM	#6
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	The base to tip measure of a bullet or of a complete cartridge as noted above is only a rough guide. The important measure that you want to keep uniform for best accuracy is the ogive to base measure. The ogive is the curved part of the bullet that will actually first contact the lands upon firing. If you are going to be loading for best possible accuracy, and your rifle and you are capable of getting the most out of a round, you may want to buy a bullet comparator. A lot of match shooters like the Sinclair hex comparator since it is reamed using the same type tool with which chambers are cut. Since you already have the RCBS tool you may prefer to use the land nut to check for ogive to base cartridge uniformity. I find the hex more convenient since I cull bullets and trim mepplats, but the lands nut will work for measuring the finished product just as well. Keep in mind that your seating die does not index on the ogive but somewhere between it and (or on) the tip. Unless you knew that you would only use a particular ogive for all the rest of your days, or had the means to buy different parts for different bullets, a seater stem that indexed on the ogive would not be practical. Still, you can get uniform seating to the Nth degree using your tools and patience. It can pay off with a slight accuracy improvement. __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal

January 8, 2009, 03:46 PM	#7
IllinoisCoyoteHunter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2008 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 1,527	yeah...my vlds i load are WAY over the manuals COAL. __________________ ~~IllinoisCoyoteHunter~~ ~NRA LIFE MEMBER~ ~NRA CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR~

January 8, 2009, 08:17 PM	#10
Lilswede1 Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2008 Location: NW Wash State Posts: 216	Thanks for the great input and will continue check this thread I've loaded up 5 ea. rounds from 2.270 to 2.310 and will check them all out at the range soon. All chamber and eject really well so I believe I am within tolerances of a safe and accurate round. May take a bit to get to my range tho. I live in NW Wash State and all roads to out private range and lake are closed. Mud slides and flood damage all over the place. That's OK - gives me more time to make sure my case prep is as good and thorough as I can get it.

January 9, 2009, 10:03 PM	#12
swmike Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2005 Location: Marysville, WA Posts: 670	Lilswede1- The 2.260 max COAL shown in most reloading manuals is for ammo shot in an AR-15/M-16. Ammo over 2.260" in length will not feed reliably in standard issue rifles like these. If you are loading for a bolt action, go ahead and load for max length with desired freebore. If loading for an AR keep it under 2.260 (I use 2.250 for my loads) so it will not jam in the magazine or when feeding. __________________ My definition of Gun Control--- A steady grip and hitting your target. "In God we trust, all others are suspects." "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying, either I won't need any more, or more won't be of any help". ____________________________________________

January 8, 2009, 01:24 AM	#2
hardhit Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2008 Posts: 343	Iv not really payed much attention to what the OAL says in the reload book. But iv been reloading for a long time, I take the measurement from my OAL gauge of the rifle im loading for, and seat bullets accordingly..- normally .10 off the lands if possible.

January 8, 2009, 07:46 AM	#3
Qtiphky Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2008 Location: Upper Michigan, above the Mackinac Bridge Posts: 568	My understanding from my reading is that the COAL is just for the uniformity and compatibility with magazines and not specific rifles. Meaning, your rifle may be able to hold a bullet with a longer OAL, but those bullets may not work in another gun or magazine.

January 8, 2009, 08:02 AM	#4
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,955	OAL listed in manuals is nothing more than a number they used. It does not mean you must use their listed OAL Here is Accurate Powder says about OAL. "SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL” It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a guideline only. The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination. This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as 1) magazine length (space), 2) freebore-lead dimensions of the barrel, 3) ogive or profile of the projectile and 4) position of cannelure or crimp groove."

January 8, 2009, 08:45 AM	#5
cgaengineer Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2008 Posts: 264	Thats great information Steve. Thanks for posting it.

January 8, 2009, 05:34 PM	#8
the machinist Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Posts: 66	If I remember correctly the last time I measured a Rem. factory round it was 2.175

January 8, 2009, 07:53 PM	#9
rn22723 Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2001 Location: Burbs of Minneapolis Posts: 676	I think you can find an accurate load that is able to be fed out of the magazine of your gun. The potential problem is that loading short bullets long, may not leave enough of the bullet of the case neck. The rule of thumb is to have at least one caliber length of the bullet in the case neck. You ought to follow the suggested loading length of Sierra.

January 10, 2009, 11:17 AM	#13
Uncle Chan Member Join Date: November 30, 2008 Posts: 40	I load mine to 2.1-2.14 so that they can fit and function well in the magazine (Mini-14).

January 12, 2009, 12:48 PM	#14
Calif-Mini Junior Member Join Date: December 29, 2008 Location: Fremont California Posts: 12	223 Coal Most Mimi-14's will feed 2.260 without a problem. Even can go up to 2.275 but can start encountering FTF near there as magazine is too short to function with the long rounds. If there is any need to use longer rounds, one can hand feed them in a semi-auto but it will depend on your specific magazine on the CZ bolt action. Not familiar with your CZ but as someone else stated try to keep your loads in a straight forward manner and don't let the excitement of going to the magic load cloud a possible over pressure situation. Some chambers will work on slightly higher pressure and others might be pushing it a little. The rules on shooting usually start with "Safety" then have fun in any direction the sport takes you. A lot of good thoughts above for you to digest from several "shooters". Have fun, Ed

January 13, 2009, 01:07 AM	#15
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	Looks like good shooting weather this week Lilswede unless you're busy repairing things the weight of the snow and rain knocked down...... like I am. __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal