.223 gel test: American Eagle 50 gr JHP fired from 11.5", 14.5", & 19.5" barrels

[Andrew Wiggin]

Link to video of test including bonus watermelon explosion


Federal American Eagle 50 gr JHP (part no. AE223G) fired from 11.5", 14.5", and 19.5" barreled AR-15 pattern rifles into calibrated 10% gelatin.

BB: 586.5 fps, 3.6"


11.5" barrel results:

Impact velocity: 2,921 fps
Penetration: 8.7"
Retained weight: 16.7 gr
Max expansion: 0.438"
Min expansion: 0.336"







14.5" barrel results:

Impact velocity: 3,264 fps
Penetration: 8.9"
Retained weight: 14.3 gr
Max expansion: 0.329"
Min expansion: 0.253"







19.5" barrel results:

Impact velocity: 3,394 fps
Penetration: 7.4"
Retained weight: 10.9 gr
Max expansion: 0.419"
Min expansion: 0.235"

[Andrew Wiggin]

Fragments strained from the gel:




Watermelon going critical:

[2damnold4this]

Thanks for posting. That looks like the ideal SBR load for watermelons.

[Andrew Wiggin]

Yeah, and it would be great for turning small animals inside out. That's what it's designed for, after all. Not remotely adequate for defense, but it might be useful for coyote. It has a pretty good chance of not leaving an exit wound and screwing up the pelt, especially with a quartering shot. Might also be good for javelina.

[Ibmikey]

What is the twist on the individual barrels?

[Andrew Wiggin]

11.5" 1:9"
14.5" 1:7"
19.5" 1:8"

[Mobuck]

That's what my home defense 11.5" AR pistol is loaded with. Years ago, I determined that load gave extreme expansion with limited penetration. This certainly verifies my redneck testing.
"Not remotely adequate for defense"
HMMM, not sure what your requirements are but suits mine quite well.

[Andrew Wiggin]

I strongly recommended you choose a load that can reliably penetrate at least 12" at a minimum. 14" is ideal. There are several 60-75 gr soft point and OTM loads that will meet that requirement from a short barrel. At only 9", there is a very real possibility that the projectile fails to reach vital organs.

[Mobuck]

Difference of opinion but I'll stick with mine, thanks.
I don't expect to encounter much requiring 12-14" of penetration. If so, there's 10 rounds of FMJ following the first 10 JHP.
I can assure that a JHP hitting an arm or leg will be more debilitating than a pass through by a slower expanding bullet. In addition, 7-9" seems to be pretty close to the depth of the average human body cavity(front to back) so that destruction will be within the chest/abdominal cavity.
I've heard lots of stories about seemingly "indestructible" humans soaking up several hits. Since most of us aren't allowed to test bullet performance on human targets, I've based mine on use on varmints/game animals. Bullets that punch deep holes w/o expanding depend on hitting bone/nerve structure for quick results. I can guarantee a coyote with a leg knocked off(or a 2" exit wound) by a quick expanding bullet won't run as far as one with a hole in it's leg/belly made by a bullet that spends it's energy blowing a divot in the dirt beyond the animal.

[skizzums]

I tend to agree with MObuck when talking rifle velocities. Even only penetrating a few inches, the shock and wound channel is so devastating, I can't imaging it wouldn't incapacitate as well as a heavier constructed bullet. When you cut the velocities in half in a pistol, I think the penetration is more important of a factor.

[HKFan9]

That's what my home defense 11.5" AR pistol is loaded with. Years ago, I determined that load gave extreme expansion with limited penetration. This certainly verifies my redneck testing.
"Not remotely adequate for defense"
HMMM, not sure what your requirements are but suits mine quite well.

SAME HERE.

I keep a 10.5'' AR loaded with the same rounds or similar.

Close range... I have no doubt they will do what I need it to do, with out going through as many walls, my car.. or my neighbors house.

I agree with Mobuck for the most part, but remember this is gel testing... Humans are made of all kinds of stuff, so the 9'' is exactly equal. However like others suggest the energy of a rifle round is much greater than that of a handgun. Handguns actually tend to over penetrate inside houses. I am not saying it is the BEST round for self defense.. I am saying it is what I choose based on the fact I think 30+ of them will be more than fine to get the job done, and I want to limit wall penetration. 5.56 actually penetrates less interior walls than an average shotgun or handgun round, a light weight hollowpoint only helps that, while still delivering much pain to the intended target.

Remember self defense is about STOPING a threat... not KILLING a threat. We also don't need magic bullets for one shot kills.... if a threat is present... you fire until its no longer moving... I am pretty sure your average home invader isn't going to sit there and soak up 3-4 of those with no effect at distances inside a home.

Unless you hit the CNS directly a bullet i don't care how much penetration, is never a garunteed stopper. Only two things kill you... CNS hit, or major blood loss.

[Mobuck]

My statements are based on an 11.5" AR 5.56 so velocities will be significantly higher than typical handguns(not 1/2 the velocity of a carbine as mentioned). I haven't checked over a chronograph but would expect 2400-2500 fps or about what you'd get from a carbine @100 yards--plenty to cause explosive expansion of light HP bullets.
As HKFan9 said, debilitating is more important than causing fatal wounds.

[Andrew Wiggin]

I am pretty sure your average home invader isn't going to sit there and soak up 3-4 of those with no effect at distances inside a home.

There have been numerous documented instances of failures to stop due to inadequate penetration. The most famous of which was the FBI Miami shootout, which eventually led to the the 12"-18" recommendation.

If anyone is interested, the velocity from the 11.5" rifle is consistent with what you would expect from the 19.5" rifle at a little over 100 yards, according to an interwebz ballistic calculator.

[HKFan9]

There have also been numerous reports of people surviving all kinds of hits from all kinds of weapons. Man in NY survived 11 shots from a 9mm... people have survived with 8" combat knives buried directly into their brain.

There are also numerous instances where .22LR proved perfectly lethal...


I never said it is an end all be all "stopper" but its pretty much as good as anything else. It is still delivering more energy than a 9mm or 40 or .45 with your required penetration. Penetration is just one variable.... and no matter which ones we want to pick apart... shot placement trumps all of them.

Is it the ideal ONE ROUND SHOT STOPPER, NO. Is it an ideal round for someone with family members and neighbors who are worried about over penetration... I think so.

[Sharkbite]

There have been numerous documented instances of failures to stop due to inadequate penetration. The most famous of which was the FBI Miami shootout, which eventually led to the the 12"-18" recommendation.

That standard is for PISTOL bullets. No such standard exists for RIFLE rounds

[Andrew Wiggin]

Are you claiming that rifle projectiles don't need to reach vital organs to incapacitate?

[skizzums]

I think from a rifle velocity, a full energy dump is better than a pass through. It's not like a 38 where its just going to pierce that skin and poke a hole a few inches in. It'll make a devastating wound and incapacitate better than any pistol round with twice the penetration. I

Regardless of our debate, I always really appreciate when people post gel tests on here. I know its a lot of work and time. It's always very intresting and can be a useful learning tool. So thanks!

[Andrew Wiggin]

Thank you. I really appreciate that.

[tirod]

It confirms what I was considering in an AR pistol build. Using 5.56 means reading over and over that it requires 2,700 fps to fragment, and barrels under 12" means it won't.

But, they were talking about FMJ military rounds. I came to mind most hunting loads are designed to expand well under 2,000 fps second precisely because they will often travel out to 100+ meters and that is the intention. Makers aren't going to sell bullets that don't meet the users guidelines, so expansion at lower velocities is necessary for hunting use.

While a lot of caliber fans like to post that a bigger bullet or large case capacity in an AR compatible round does better, the idea of this project is to be able to practice with inexpensive ammo to improve skill level - because shot placement is important. Those guys getting hit multiple times weren't dropped with a COM shot to the heart or nervous system. They were downrange of a spray and pray shooter, which is the average agent/LEO in terms of skill and practice.

Shooting reloads in a higher performance caliber helps, but the component parts in a build are also higher, rarely discounted, and generally harder to find. With 5.56, there's a 10.5" barrel for sale offered much more often - one on a website for $99 right now. (and I haven't money . . .)

More likely to see that again in the next six months of slow buying than a custom caliber. With the performance noted in the gel here, there's little incentive to pay another $100 for a different caliber, and then hassle the ammo supply, too. I'll save that for the deer rifle.

I can use the 10.5" 5.56 during gun season and alternate pistol season, too, doubling my days in the field, and carry it cocked and locked in the car if needed, ready to hand, too. Plus it is a lot more handy getting around in confined spaces, useful for home defense.

Hence the significant interest in AR pistols lately, aside from that silly prosthetic device most don't qualify to need.

Thanks for the timely report, upgrading 5.56 to work in a shorter barrel is an economical answer for pistol builders. You buy the less expensive parts and enjoy reliable downrange performance.

[Andrew Wiggin]

I think you're on the right track. Bear in mind that there will be a surprising difference in velocity between 10.5" and 11.5". I think that most mid weight (62-65 gr) soft points would do very well from a short barrel.

Here are my results from 65 gr Sierra Game King out of my 11.5" AR:


Impact velocity: 2,442 fps
Penetration: 13.75"
Temporary stretch cavity: about 3"
Maximum expansion: 0.570"
Minimum expansion: 0.512"
Retained weight: 63.6 gr

Link to video of test.


Here are the results of PPU 75 gr BTHP:

Impact velocity: 2,522 fps
Penetration: 13"
Temporary stretch cavity: about 4"
Retained weight: 19.0 gr

Video link.


I intend to continue testing a variety of bullet weights and designs in the same three lengths (or at least 11.5" and 16") over the next few months. I may also retest the 65 gr SGK and 75 gr BTHP because I think my methods are a little better now than they were.

[amd6547]

The PPU 75gn load is what I keep in my goto 20rd mag for my 16" AR...but I keep a mag of M193 for a reload.

[waymore]

This is very interesting. I was asking something similar about short barreled AR Pistols in another forum. This would seem to indicate that a .223 can be quite efficient out of a 11.5 barrel.