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Old February 23, 2013, 07:47 PM   #1
Moloch
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Shooting waaay left - Help!

Hi!

I need some help: I'm always shooting to the left with rifles when using iron sights.

Caliber, type of rifle, type of sights, doesn't matter, I always have to push the front sight waaay left to get to the center.
Strangely it gets worse the shorter the sight radius gets, one of my rifles has a 17'' barrel and v notch front post sights and I was hitting a FOOT left at 50 yds.
Even with the front sight all the way left now I'm still hitting 2'' to the left at 50yds. Its just frustrating, and the front sight pushed so far to the left that it is almost falling off its base looks ugly.

And yes, I'm getting very good consistent groups out to 100yds, once I managed to shoot a group which I could almost cover with my thumb at 100yds - with my Swedish Mauser using irons.

Whats going on?
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Old February 23, 2013, 07:52 PM   #2
Striker1
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Take notice to see if you are tilting (canting) the rifle to left or right.

PS. Are you shooting both eyes open or not?
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Old February 23, 2013, 08:00 PM   #3
Moloch
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I usually shoot with both eyes open, I need to close my left eye when using very small diameter peep sights however.

Can canting the rifle change the POI that much? I'm using a good flat rest for my rifle, IF I tilt the rifle it can't be much.
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Old February 23, 2013, 08:04 PM   #4
Bart B.
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Check the barrel's fit to the stock fore end. There may be a really hard contact point someplace on the right side of the barrel against the fore end.
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Old February 23, 2013, 08:05 PM   #5
Striker1
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Bart, I think he said it happens with several different rifles.

Moloch,

If it is happening with different rifles, those are the only things I can think of unless you're really pushing on the side of those triggers...which I would have a hard time believing.

Last edited by Striker1; February 23, 2013 at 08:11 PM.
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Old February 23, 2013, 08:09 PM   #6
Moloch
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Quote:
Check the barrel's fit to the stock fore end. There may be a really hard contact point someplace on the right side of the barrel against the fore end.
Will do.
Come to think of it, I only shoot surplus rifles with full length wooden stocks with iron sights, so maybe there IS a stock problem. But still, all rifles having the same problem is very unlikely.

Quote:
If it happening with different rifles, those are the only things I can think of unless you're really pushing on the side of those triggers...which I would have a hard time believing.
I'm getting good groups like any other experienced shooter, I doubt it that it has anything to do with my trigger pull. Whatever I'm doing wrong, I do it very consistently...unless its a hardware issue.
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Old February 23, 2013, 08:13 PM   #7
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Ever consider shooting left handed to see what happens?
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Old February 23, 2013, 08:15 PM   #8
Moloch
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My left eye is the bad one, if I had to shoot a rifle left handed it would have to be scoped.
Otherwise I wouldn't only hit waaay left, I'd hit waaay right, high and low as well.
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Old February 23, 2013, 08:18 PM   #9
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Well if you aren't having this problem when using a scope, I refer back to my original guesses.
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Old February 23, 2013, 08:23 PM   #10
Moloch
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Yep, I'll check the stocks for pressure points.

One thing that especially puzzles me is that it get MUCH worse with short rifles.

Mosin Nagant 91/30 - hits 2'' left at 100
Mosin Nagant m44 - hits 6'' to the left at 100

Both had their front sights still aligned with the factory mark on the sight bases. Used the same ammo in both rifles.
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Old February 23, 2013, 08:29 PM   #11
Striker1
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Quote:
Yep, I'll check the stocks for pressure points.

One thing that especially puzzles me is that it get MUCH worse with short rifles.
Probably has something to do with the shorter sight radius.

By the way, canting the rifle will usually change POI low and in the direction of the cant. I have seen it put rounds off target at 25m...and usually, IME, a right handed shooter will tend to tilt it in toward the body (left)
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Old February 23, 2013, 08:38 PM   #12
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The quickest way to determine if the cause is with the rifle or the shooter, have another person (preferrably an equally good/bad shot) shoot the rifle to see if the "problem" disappears, or remains.



.
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Old February 23, 2013, 08:40 PM   #13
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If this happens with multiple rifles, it's NOT the rifles' problem. I've seen some very uniform flinches in my years of shooting and teaching and this sounds like one of them.
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Old February 23, 2013, 08:40 PM   #14
Moloch
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Quote:
Probably has something to do with the shorter sight radius.
Yeah, logic dictates that the shorter the sight radius the LESS you need to adjust the sights. But in my case its the other way around.

Next time on the range I'll take a look through the barrel, aim it at the target and then look where the sights are aiming at. That way I can make sure that the sights are not mounted tilted/off center etc.
Quote:
I have seen it put rounds off target at 25m...and usually, IME, a right handed shooter will tend to tilt it in toward the body (left)
How can I make sure that I'm not tilting the gun?

Quote:
The quickest way to determine if the cause is with the rifle or the shooter, have another person (preferrably an equally good/bad shot) shoot the rifle to see if the "problem" disappears, or remains.
Thats a good idea, though its funny how hard it is to find people which are a good shot with iron sights these days, everyone shoots either scopes or vernier target sights nowadays.
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Old February 23, 2013, 08:45 PM   #15
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You aren't by any chance right handed but left eye dominant?
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Old February 23, 2013, 08:46 PM   #16
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If you can't tell just by looking at the front sight, aim the sights at a vertical line, close your eyes, relax and open them...or, have a friend check it out while you hold the gun normally.
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Old February 23, 2013, 08:51 PM   #17
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I'll try that, thanks.

Quote:
You aren't by any chance right handed but left eye dominant?
No, fortunately I'm right eye dominant and right handed.
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Old February 23, 2013, 09:24 PM   #18
the rifleer
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If you move the front sight to the left, that will move the shot to the right.

The only possibility I see is you not lining up the sights correctly. They should be perfectly centered and perfectly level. The shorter the sight radius, the easier it is to screw up.
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Old February 24, 2013, 01:20 PM   #19
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I had that problem . My POI was always to the right , iron , red-dot , scope all rifles . My problem was canting the rifle .I was shooting about 3/4 MOA to the right . I would shoot sub MOA groups but always to the right . Every time I pick up any rifle and put it up to my cheek the cross hairs look canted . My natural/comfortable stance/hold makes the rifle cant . I re leveled all my scopes and have been really making an effort not to cant my rifle . I'm shooting better now .
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Old February 24, 2013, 02:24 PM   #20
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I'm not one to give much advice on shooting, but you mentioned Mosins. They're sited with the bayonets on, or extended for an M44. Just commenting to make sure you know about that..
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Old February 26, 2013, 04:36 PM   #21
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you may be flinching when firing if your shooting left, its an unconscious action sometimes your anticipating the recoil?
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Old February 27, 2013, 10:30 AM   #22
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It sounds as though you are not getting over the top of the rifles far enough. A tighter cheek weld would probably help. The longer the sight radius, the "finer" you can draw to a target. Shorter radius gives you less control. The shorter radius will also be further off if you are not aligned to the sights. Example, rifle vs pistol.
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Old February 28, 2013, 02:24 PM   #23
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Old Eyes

My eyes are getting old - I can't shoot well with irons anymore because I can't keep the irons and the target all in focus (near sighted) with my glasses on. Or I can't keep the front and rear site in focus at the same time. Peep sights are the only ones I can shoot with any consistency. You might want to try a peep site and see if that helps.

If peeps don't do it then canting or flinching might be it - as suggested earlier. I scope or reddot/Halo most of my stuff now.
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Old February 28, 2013, 04:06 PM   #24
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Your 17" barrel on the rifle, that shoots way left...might be bent to the left. I had a Polish Tantal AK-74, whose barrel was bent to the right --- so much --- that you could see the bend in the barrel; just by looking at it.

Don't depend on the factory zero settings on old rifles, like the Mosin's. Being out of horizontal alignment by 2" @ 50 yards, is not bad at all.
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Old February 28, 2013, 04:27 PM   #25
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Have you ever had problems with your right shoulder? I.E: broken collar bone, dislocation, torn ligaments. Not necessarily while shooting, but rather in the past(childhood, teen years, etc).
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