How decided are we and when to strike first in self defense?

[The Observer]

I asked this questions because I have been confronted several barehands real fights in the street, I was poked by knives by hold-uppers but luckily get out from it. I was also being about to be shot but I was able to neutralize it without shooting back to the BG but instead evade the confrontation by getting away completely from the assailant or attacker for there is still room to retreat.

Being a professional man, having good family life and if time comes that you're confronted by a goblin and possible real fight situation occur but you have still room to retreat, are you not going to withdraw or you will fight back squarely?

Thanks



[Edited by The Observer on 03-01-2001 at 10:27 PM]

[M1911]

In my state (and most), before using deadly force you must retreat if it is safe to do so. I'll gladly run away if I can. If I'm unable to retreat (e.g., I'm with aging relatives), then it's another matter...

M1911

[Tall Man]

Um, Mr. Observer, may I respectfully suggest that you edit your post for proper grammatical structure? My head is still spinning.

In PA, the assailee has the duty to retreat "to the wall". For the purposes of this post, this wall represents either an obstacle that cannot be negotiated, or one's domicile of record.

I can only hope that I remain fast and accurate, mentally and physically, should I find the wall on my six.

Tall Man

[Bogie]

I suspect his first language may not be English - cut him some slack...

[Art Eatman]

Yeah, he's from the "Pacific Rim"; his English is sure better than my Tagalog, Japanese or Korean...

I subscribe to the ancient cop saying, "It's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six." Factor in common sense, and use your best judgement.

If running is the best option, don't hang around just for the thrill of shooting. If you have no choice but to take action of whatever sort, don't wait on the other fellow.

I'm 66 years old. My back hurts. I have arthritis in my shoulders. Running is just not as much fun as it was twenty or thirty years ago, nor is the gentlemanly art of fisticuffs.

Guess what?

, Art

[zot]

running couldn't be a option for my bad knees,shoot first if
its got a gun, if not just show your weapon and walk away from each other. damn I hope I spelled everthin korect.

[LawDog]

I hate having sharp-and-pointy object pointed at my person by anti-social types. In my case, a someone producing a knife is going to result in: a) my running like a striped-butt ape for safety, b) my running like a sulfured bat for safety, or c) producing a weapon and going beserk if options 'a' or 'b' aren't available.

LawDog

[gryphon]

There is nothing wrong with running away if that is an option. Once running away or evading the situation is not an option, then that is when the self defense comes into play.

[Jesse H]

most probably run and scream like a little school girl. I'm 5'9" and 135lbs with wet jeans on a good day. If I can avoid bleeing, I definately will.

Unarmed, I'm pretty defenseless guy, but I sure can run damned fast. Now if the BG is severely attacking a loved one, my sympathetic nervous system may just take over.

[ATeaM]

If a knife is pulled on you....RUN !!!

Otherwise, if your back is to the wall, your first strike should always be aimed at the point where your opponents legs intersect. When he bends over from the force of the blow, or he tries to tackle you, stick both of your thumbs into his eye sockets and press deeply (practice on a melon). If this still doesn't work, bite any exposed flesh and pray that your opponent is not afflicted with any terminal illness.

So, the force continuim is as follows:

Kick to the balls
Gouge the eyes
Bite like a girl
Tell him you have AIDS and hope he doesn't as well

[The Observer]

For the satisfaction of our posters, I've tried my best to straighten my grammar and english of the above post. Ehmm!!! So, TFL is a place of learning grammar not only shooting and handling FA's. Just bear with us who are not English speaking natives but at least we can express fully our ideas and still be able to share with you.

On the other hand, so, you will take the option of running (if possible) if you really don't want to be cut or shot by a BG. Me, just like you perhaps had been in actual or close fights but there were moments we come to think the after effect or consequence to be in real fight, either we will end to hospital, Court litigation or Cemetery. But of course there are exceptions to confront with full force any agression if justified by many justifying cicumstances. In one occassion some instances that a BG is coming to me with a knife because of a traffic altercations, I also draw my 1911 Colt (without pointing at him) and when he saw that I am carrying he was even the one who asked sorry.

In onother instance, 3 drug addicts had a tripped on me in my community and even I don't want to fight back I traded with them punches because they throw at me first their fists but I practice counter defensive. When they cannot pin me down in hand to hand combat they pick up big stones and throwing at me, but I am fast in running for cover at vehicles. I had with me my .45 but i did not even think to shoot them, thinking that if I have killed them, am I just be exempted from criminal liability?

I am just sharing some real life experiences, it might be of help to an experienced and inexperienced having CCW's. It is to easy to shoot and fight back but the negative consequence is great. Even we're LE's, Civilian with authority alike - if we are in a situation that we have shot someone, proving self defense rest on us and be ready with your $$$'s and sometimes losing your retirement.

[David Scott]

Observer,

The law is different in different places. I live in Florida. Here, you must retreat if you can do it without getting hurt. You can only use a gun if you can't get away safe. In your home or business you do not have to retreat.

That's the law here. I don't know the law where you live, so I can't say if you would have been liable if you had shot those people who attacked you. Since you were able to escape, it's probably better that you did. Even if you are OK legally, if you shoot someone you still have to go through a lot of police paperwork and publicity.

[Mike in VA]

with a semi-fused ankle and a blown out knee, 'running' for me is a relative term. My wife walks with a cane, so if she's with me, it isn't an option. I started packin' a couple years ago when a close encounter of the weird kind brought home my lack of agility, so 'the wall' isn't too far away for me. I hope to never have to test the theroy -M2

[Art Eatman]

Observer, the TFL folks range from under 20 years of age to over 70. Many different occupations, including law, medicine, engineering, law enforcement and martial arts instructors--and many more.

Lots of humorists and would-be humorists, as well.

I think the consensus about situations is that there is no single hard and fast rule. Each situation and its psychology will be different. So, common sense rules. If you can avoid a confrontation, do so; if you can avoid the use of deadly force, do so; but be smart enough to know when you have few or no options.

Regards, Art

[falconer]

Well, to answer the question in the topic. I was taught that if you are in a situation in which you can't retreat and A) someone makes a threat (ex: "I'm gonna kill/beat/maim you") and B) they are in a close enough rage to carry out that threat; then by all means strike first.

I avoid fighting like the plague(for the most part). There are way too many risks involved. There is a point to which you cannot avoid it. If I feel that I am in danger, a loved one is in danger or someone under my supervision is in danger, then I will by all means take action. If I must use the things I've learned, then I will and I will be "deliberate, determined, and if need be, deadly" just as I was taught.

[Tall Man]

Good Lord, my suggestion regarding sentence structure was to be taken in jest. Lighten up, guys.

Mr. Eatman summed up this matter concisely: Use common sense, retreat from the situation whenever possible, and be aware when the only choice you have is to go to war.

Tall Man

Still young and healthy