Winchester Model 70 Trigger Question

jackstrawIII · September 17, 2023, 02:35 PM

Hey,

I'd like to bring the weight of my trigger down to 2lbs, but I can't get that low. I can back that screw way out and get it down to 3lbs, but then the screw comes out.

Can I do anything else to get the weight down to 2lbs? Or should I just order a Timney and put that in there?

Thanks.

Ps. See the photo attached showing the trigger. Thanks.

Nathan · September 17, 2023, 09:48 PM

You can and should get a lighter spring to go below 4lb on most guns. The worse thing you can do is lose all spring pressure.

As you back the screw out, you very quickly get to a point of lighter vs no spring pressure. Changing to the lighter spring allows you to get lighter with less risk.

At some point, even with a lighter spring, the sear engagement will become quite unstable side to side. The parts just are not well made enough to not wobble. That wobble changes the sear contact patch and therefore makes the release variable….and less safe.

You are better off buying the Timney for a good trigger or the Jewell for a great trigger.

**Unclenick** · September 17, 2023, 10:14 PM

Agree. I have adjusted the standard production triggers down to the point of getting a firing-on-closing of the bolt (safely pointing at the berm, thank goodness and common sense). It's not worth the risk of trying to over-lighten a production trigger.

jackstrawIII · September 18, 2023, 05:36 AM

Ok, thanks. I’ll get the Timney.

Timney makes two triggers for the model 70. Can you guys verify which one to get? This looks like the MOA trigger to me, right? Or is it the standard model 70 trigger?

**44 AMP** · September 18, 2023, 01:07 PM

Other than tell you to get a replacement trigger I can't help you as the trigger in your picture is not the factory one on my model 70, not even close...

If you're using it as a target or varmint rifle, its probably best to get a trigger made for ultra light pulls. If its a rifle for big game hunting, pull weights under 3lbs are seldom a good idea.

jackstrawIII · September 18, 2023, 08:11 PM

Quote:

the trigger in your picture is not the factory one on my model 70, not even close...

Yeah, after more research, I’ve confirmed that it is the MOA trigger that Winchester started using in 2008. I’m going to try installing some new springs. Supposedly I can get it down to around 2lbs. We’ll try. If it doesn’t work, I'm only down $15. The springs are from a company called M-Carbo. Anyone used their stuff before?

Nathan · September 19, 2023, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

You can and should get a lighter spring to go below 4lb on most guns. The worse thing you can do is lose all spring pressure.

As you back the screw out, you very quickly get to a point of lighter vs no spring pressure. Changing to the lighter spring allows you to get lighter with less risk.

At some point, even with a lighter spring, the sear engagement will become quite unstable side to side. The parts just are not well made enough to not wobble. That wobble changes the sear contact patch and therefore makes the release variable….and less safe.

You are better off buying the Timney for a good trigger or the Jewell for a great trigger.

Sorry, this post was based on the original trigger.

The MOA is different. Not sure what is possible there. Timney does make an MOA replacement, but often MOA triggers can get a bit better than the old style. My XPR has a decent 3.5lb pull.

243winxb · September 21, 2023, 08:43 AM

https://www.winchesterguns.com/suppo...er-system.html looks like lots of adjustment.

jmr40 · September 21, 2023, 01:18 PM

From what I've read around 3 lbs is as light as you can get that trigger. If you want to go lighter than that you may need to go aftermarket.

I have a 2008 Winchester with that trigger and I find it just fine out of the box.

For some reasons I do prefer the older style trigger. I think they are more rugged and foolproof. But the new trigger is much smoother and lighter out of the box and it is a lot harder to get the old trigger better.

jackstrawIII · September 23, 2023, 04:41 PM

The new springs arrived today. Haven’t had a chance to put them in yet, but I’ll let you guys know. Should be able to get it down around where I want. We’ll see.

**44 AMP** · September 24, 2023, 11:45 AM

You can easily and simply reduce the feel of the trigger pull weight by adding a trigger shoe. You'd be amazed the difference it can make, for some people, and, its pretty cheap, too!

jackstrawIII · September 24, 2023, 03:09 PM

I installed the MCarbo springs and the trigger has settled at a consistent 2.5 lbs. The original factor trigger (at full reduction) varies between 3 and 3.5.

So, for $15, a consistent 2.5 lbs is pretty good.

tangolima · September 24, 2023, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackstrawIII

I installed the MCarbo springs and the trigger has settled at a consistent 2.5 lbs. The original factor trigger (at full reduction) varies between 3 and 3.5.

So, for $15, a consistent 2.5 lbs is pretty good.

Make sure the trigger fully resets when you abort a trigger pull, 100% of the time.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

**Unclenick** · September 25, 2023, 07:12 PM

Since I have never had one in my hands, I asked a trigger expert about the MOA and he said:

"The trigger he's talking about is the same as a Timney but without the very thin sear engagement that the better material and heat-treat of the Timney allows. I wouldn't advise he reduce engagement on the MOA. If the corner breaks or slips, the gun fires."

At any rate, I would be extra careful that it is pointed in a safe direction whenever you close the bolt.

Nathan · September 25, 2023, 08:55 PM

Quote:

At any rate, I would be extra careful that it is pointed in a safe direction whenever you close the bolt.

…or take it off safe. That is usually when M70 types fire unexpectedly. On safe, they have no weight on the sear. Taking off safe lowers the cocking piece onto the sear.

I have the XPR set pretty light 3.5 lb with minimal engagement and overtravel. That said, I usually add over travel from minimum until I feel them get worse. I just don’t like living on the edge for no reason.

tangolima · September 26, 2023, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

…or take it off safe. That is usually when M70 types fire unexpectedly. On safe, they have no weight on the sear. Taking off safe lowers the cocking piece onto the sear.

I have the XPR set pretty light 3.5 lb with minimal engagement and overtravel. That said, I usually add over travel from minimum until I feel them get worse. I just don’t like living on the edge for no reason.

So Remington 700 is not the only one that would fire unexpected coming off safe?

Increase over travel doesn't increase the engagement. With too little over travel the gun may not fire when the trigger is pulled.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

September 17, 2023, 10:14 PM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Agree. I have adjusted the standard production triggers down to the point of getting a firing-on-closing of the bolt (safely pointing at the berm, thank goodness and common sense). It's not worth the risk of trying to over-lighten a production trigger. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

September 18, 2023, 05:36 AM	#4
jackstrawIII Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2016 Location: Upstate NY. Posts: 901	Ok, thanks. I’ll get the Timney. Timney makes two triggers for the model 70. Can you guys verify which one to get? This looks like the MOA trigger to me, right? Or is it the standard model 70 trigger? __________________ In God we trust.

September 18, 2023, 01:07 PM	#5
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,871	Other than tell you to get a replacement trigger I can't help you as the trigger in your picture is not the factory one on my model 70, not even close... If you're using it as a target or varmint rifle, its probably best to get a trigger made for ultra light pulls. If its a rifle for big game hunting, pull weights under 3lbs are seldom a good idea. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

September 21, 2023, 08:43 AM	#8
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	Winchester MOA Trigger https://www.winchesterguns.com/suppo...er-system.html looks like lots of adjustment.

September 21, 2023, 01:18 PM	#9
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,812	From what I've read around 3 lbs is as light as you can get that trigger. If you want to go lighter than that you may need to go aftermarket. I have a 2008 Winchester with that trigger and I find it just fine out of the box. For some reasons I do prefer the older style trigger. I think they are more rugged and foolproof. But the new trigger is much smoother and lighter out of the box and it is a lot harder to get the old trigger better. __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

September 17, 2023, 09:48 PM	#2
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,336	You can and should get a lighter spring to go below 4lb on most guns. The worse thing you can do is lose all spring pressure. As you back the screw out, you very quickly get to a point of lighter vs no spring pressure. Changing to the lighter spring allows you to get lighter with less risk. At some point, even with a lighter spring, the sear engagement will become quite unstable side to side. The parts just are not well made enough to not wobble. That wobble changes the sear contact patch and therefore makes the release variable….and less safe. You are better off buying the Timney for a good trigger or the Jewell for a great trigger.

September 23, 2023, 04:41 PM	#10
jackstrawIII Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2016 Location: Upstate NY. Posts: 901	The new springs arrived today. Haven’t had a chance to put them in yet, but I’ll let you guys know. Should be able to get it down around where I want. We’ll see. __________________ In God we trust.

September 24, 2023, 11:45 AM	#11
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,871	You can easily and simply reduce the feel of the trigger pull weight by adding a trigger shoe. You'd be amazed the difference it can make, for some people, and, its pretty cheap, too! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

September 24, 2023, 03:09 PM	#12
jackstrawIII Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2016 Location: Upstate NY. Posts: 901	I installed the MCarbo springs and the trigger has settled at a consistent 2.5 lbs. The original factor trigger (at full reduction) varies between 3 and 3.5. So, for $15, a consistent 2.5 lbs is pretty good. __________________ In God we trust.

September 25, 2023, 07:12 PM	#14
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Since I have never had one in my hands, I asked a trigger expert about the MOA and he said: "The trigger he's talking about is the same as a Timney but without the very thin sear engagement that the better material and heat-treat of the Timney allows. I wouldn't advise he reduce engagement on the MOA. If the corner breaks or slips, the gun fires." At any rate, I would be extra careful that it is pointed in a safe direction whenever you close the bolt. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle