Why You should tumble Cases

[sricciardelli]

I have seen many (actually too many) discussions in the reloading forums on why it is unnecessary to "tumble" your cases. I use the term "tumble" generically here. My preference for case cleaning is the vibrator type cleaner.

I have also seen too many posts by the "experts" in reloading forums stating that reloaders shouldn't waste the money on commercially prepared tumbling media, but instead should go to their local hardware store and buy kitty litter!

Well, for less than $1 per pound I will buy commercially packaged Lyman media. A 3-pound charge is good for several thousand cases, and it does one hell of a job!

First of all there are basically two types of media, walnut and corncob. The walnut media is treated with red jeweler's rouge and the corncob is treated with a green polish. The walnut is a little more coarse in size.

Here's my suggestion on cleaning the cases.

If the cases are really nasty (dirty, corroded, discolored) tumble them for about one hour in the walnut media, and then for about one hour in the corncob.

If the cases are semi-nasty (smoke residue, slight discoloration) tumble them for about an hour in walnut media.

And for cases that are "normal" (basically clean and good-looking (like me)) tumble them for about one hour in treated corncob media.

Below you will find four pictures. The first is of some really nasty 9mm cases. These were fired and reloaded over 17 times. The empty cases landed in snow, and I left them there for 3 weeks. When the snow melted and the temperature got above freezing I picked the cases out of the ground, and this is what they looked like!



The next picture is from the same batch of cases, after they have been "tumbled" in a Lyman 2200 vibrator cleaner for one hour using only Lyman treated corncob media. Cases were still discolored and areas of corrosion were still evident.



The next picture is from the same batch of cases, after they have been "tumbled" in a Lyman 2200 vibrator cleaner for one hour using only Lyman treated walnut media. This removed most areas of discoloration and corrosion, but the cases were not highly shined.



The final picture is from the same batch of cases, after they have been "tumbled" in a Lyman 2200 vibrator cleaner for one hour using Lyman treated walnut media, followed by one hour using Lyman treated corncob media. Here all the discoloration and corrosion were removed, and the cases had that "gun show" shine. (Remember these case were fired 17 times and left in the weather for three weeks before being cleaned!)



Now, you can say what you want, but I will pick brass that looks like the last picture every time! Is it worth the extra cost (less than, $0.006 each) and time (about 1 hour)? You bet it is!

[Bogie]

Thing is, if you don't let your brass get dirty, you don't need to tumble it. My rifle rounds, with the exception of .223 blast-a-matich ammo, never sees a tumbler. I wipe the neck with 0000 steel wool, and if it starts to look funky, it gets hit with nevr dull.

[Steve Smith]

"Thing is, if you don't let your brass get dirty, you don't need to tumble it. "

And all God's people said, "Amen!"


Now, that being said, my match AR does make 'em a little sooty. I use fine corn cob with a little "glug" of Meguire's car wax (non-ammonia type)

I also use the Meguire's on my .45 acp with large corn-cob bedding material.

[sricciardelli]

Generally all my real brass needs is around 15 minutes in treated corncob to bring it back to "factory fresh looking". And it gets done after every firing...and 15 minutes isn't all that bad for 250 to 500 cases...

[Shoney]

Mr. Ricciardelli:

I agree completely on cleaning cases. However, I go to the PET store and buy Walnut media for $5.95 per 20# bag. It is identical in every way to the media that came with my tumbler.

I put 1/2 teaspoon of Hoppies #9 in the walnut and vibrate no more than 250 pistol cases at a time. This is good for about 2000 cases, then another 1/2 tsp Hoppies. The results are a very shiny case, but I always vibrate them in corn cob media with a silicon based car polish added.

The corn cob media from the pet store, at lleast that at my local dealer, was about 4 times the size particles as the kind that came with the tumbler, so I have never used it.

Shoney

[Mike Irwin]

Sric...

"I have seen many (actually too many) discussions in the reloading forums on why it is unnecessary to "tumble" your cases..."

And I've yet to see a convincing argument as to why it is NECESSARY to clean cases by tumbling.

If my cases are dirty, I give them a quick washing.

If my cases are tarnished, so what? Appearance never affected functioning of any of my firearms.

I'll never tell anyone that he or she shouldn't tumble his brass. But I'll also say that of all of the steps in the reloading process, tumble cleaning is the LEAST necessary, and is the most optional.

[sricciardelli]

Ya know something?

I posted that tumbling thing because I thought that possibly someone, somewhere, would find it useful.

But as usual, there is always someone, somewhere, who has to come up with a smart-a$$ed reply...

If you don't wanna tumble your cases, don't! Like I care?

[stellarpod]

sricciardelli:

I agree with you and prefer my reloads to look as "factory" as possible.

Some folks are content to drive a car who's paint job looks like a blackboard, never applying a coat of wax, because the aesthetics aren't that important to them. More power to them.

Personally, I believe that nicely polished cases enhance my reloading and shooting experience - cleaner dies, cleaner reloading press, cleaner gun. But, maybe I'm just anal.

FWIW - It's not like you've got to stand there and WATCH the tumbler for the hour or two (or three) it takes to clean cases. Dump them in the tumbler and go on to other things.

[tonyz]

IMHO I think its a personality trait.
I will only use brass that is gun show shiny as sricciardelli said. When I put my time and effert into something I make, I want the finish product to look good along with being functional.


Tony

[Mike Irwin]

Sric,

Nothing at all smart-assed about my reply -- it was meant to be very serious.

This is your original statement:

"I have seen many (actually too many) discussions in the reloading forums on why it is unnecessary to "tumble" your cases."

On it's face, I took that as an implication that you do have reasons why it is "necessary" that people should tumble their cases clean.

As I noted, I've never seen anyone proffer a reason why it is necessary to tumble cases.

A number of years ago, when I was with American Rifleman, I had a long discussion with the PR director for a large company that produces respected reloading supplies, including tumblers. He and I had a long discussion about tumblers, tumbling brass, etc., and he agreed that there is no real necessity in tumbling brass; it's really the shooter's preference.

Unfortunatly, though, many of the companies that do produce tumblers have made it seem over the years that if you don't tumble your cases clean, you're going to damage your gun, or worse.

That's simply not the case.

That said, I maintain that if someone one wants to tumble their cases clean, more power to them. Some people do find greater satisfaction in shooting shiny cases.

I, however, don't personally see the necessity of the action or the necessity of purchasing yet another piece of equipment; the ultimate satisfaction for me comes from the act of shooting.

As for your ultimate advice on media selection, yes, I have absolutely no doubt that someone who wishes to start tumbling their cases will find it to be useful.

[Chemistry]

Nothing wrong with not tumbling, as long as your brass gets clean. I know of many folks who simply dump their brass in a mesh bag, along with a scoop of Tide (or whatever laundry detergent you want) and use their clothes washing machines. Then, after the washing cycle, they use the dryer (lots of noise), and their brass is free of all dirt and grime. It works fine, and the brass is perfectly functional.

However, I still prefer using a tumbler with walnut and Midway USA's White Lightning brass polish, because my cases come out sparkling after about 90 minutes of vibratory tumbling. The surfaces of the cases are slick and smooth, and look like they just came out of a factory.

I prefer the slicker surface, because when it comes to certain firearms, a rough surface may not be so good for its functionality. I've seen this happen with some people's Sig P230 (.32 ACP) pistols when they tried to use CCI Blazer. The rough aluminum casings caused misfeeds, mostly due to ammo getting hung up on the ramp, but when they switched to Federal ammo, the feeding problems stopped.

Again, if your firearm feeds ammo that has a rough surfaced casing reliably, more power to you if you don't want to tumble.

[birdman]

I tumble my brass but not on every reload. A couple of things that tumbling does well is to clean off powder residue and case lube. Also any imperfections in the brass can be more easily detected on cleaned cases. I always deprime before tumbling also so I get the added benefit of cleaner primer pockets. I also get the "benefit" of media in the primer flash holes which I remove with a toothpick as necessary. If you guys think your vibrating cleaners are slow you should try my old Thumbler Tumbler drum. I just turn it on and let it run overnight. regards, birdman

[Cheapo]

I really hope I'm not repeating an alarmist myth of the shooting world, but isn't using Hoppe's #9 just like using Brasso, which is a bigga-bigga no-no because of the ammonia content?

Our brass is really just a high-pressure metal gasket that seals gases anywhere of at least 12,000 PSI up to 33,000 PSI (excluding the Casuls and the 9x23 or whatever Win) from blasting back and re-arranging parts of our precious physical bodies.

Good brass is essential to keeping our precious bodily fluids from leaking!

And since the "high" pressure gas product tank industry (6,000 PSI begins that definition of "high pressure", IIRC) has very well-documented reasons to NEVER use brass fittings after they have been exposed to ammonia compounds, I believe that there are sound reasons to keep that stuff out of our tumblers.

So, Clark, could you please repeat your brass failure/overload/kB! testing in pistol calibers, using brass that has been tumbled for an hour with a teaspoon of fresh Brasso in each batch?

I'd really like to know if the dreaded ammonia brass failure factor makes a difference with pistol pressures and their very short pressure pulse. But let's NOT test this in rifle calibers!

[Mike Irwin]

Cheapo,

To the best of my knowledge, Hoppes No. 9 contains no ammonia or ammoniated solvents.

Hoppes Bench Rest, however, contains quite a bit of ammonia.

[Archie]

Disclaimer: The information presented here is argumentative, not conclusive.

Once the case is fired, it's dirty. There's crud in the primer pocket, there's soot on the outside, there's soot on the inside. So the "don't have to clean if it ain't dirty" theory is pretty much moot to begin with.

If you shoot any weapon that puts cases on the ground, they're dirty and might have debris in them. Really fouls up my load data to have some of my .308 case volume taken up with a bit of gravel. Changes the load characteristics and I don't want it bouncing down my barrel.

I don't like cleaning primer pockets by hand. I know some folks don't clean primer pockets at all, but I like the idea of seating primers on the bottom of the pocket, not on a bed of primer gunk. So I de-prime and then tumble.

Washing is a real pain in the foot. For a number of domestic reasons, I'm not going to wash cases in the washing machine or dishwasher. I have tried buckets and similar containers; some powered, most not. I've tried commercial soaps, special formulae made for cases, and something for automotive parts.
Wet cases make for irregular primer function.
After the inordinate amount of time to dry the cases completely, they aren't much cleaner than when I started. Still stained (annoying but harmless) and the primer pockets are still full of gunk.

When polished, or at least unstained and bright, bad brass is easier to spot. I find cracks, stretch marks, steel cases and berdan primed cases much more easily with clean brass. And I've found all these things in brass I thought I fired.

I have polished brass by hand. What a pain in the foot! And the interior of the case is still nasty.

So.
Home from range. Sort into boxes (or the brass bags Lyman makes.) Examining for defects as I go.
De-cap and into tumbler.
Run overnight. (The noise gets on my nerves, I can't run the machine and be in the room.)
Remove from media using Dillons media extractor thingie. Examining for defects as I go.
Store for re-use.
Load into loading blocks, examining for defects as I go.

I feel the extra time and effort involved pays off in superior "product" and safety. It is the optimum balance between ignoring the brass and extensive hand labor.

Now Mike, even if I haven't made a believer of you, does this fit the criteria as to "why?"

[Mike Irwin]

Archie,

I wash cases in less than 5 minutes, then spread them on a sheet to dry.

Once they're washed, they'll be on the sheet for several weeks, or even months. I've got that much brass.

The washing takes care of the external dirt, and small amounts of crud in the primer pockets and soot don't have an effect on the functioning or reliability.

[Gewehr98]

I'm not too big on running anything that doesn't approximate the appearance of factory new brass through my reloading dies, let alone the gun's chamber.

Now, if I loaded for a fluted-chamber HK91, it wouldn't be that much of a concern, but then few folks would want to reload the brass for that gun after just one firing, either.

[Nanaimo Barr]

I do it so I don't scratch the crap out of my dies.. it's faster than washing them, (and my wife likes her nickeled cowboy loads shiney on her belt)

[Redneck2]

I got some of those mesh bags when I first started reloading. Stuck them in a drawer and never really used them until a few weeks ago. Man, they're great.

I agree with sric....I can't see a reason NOT to clean them. My 45LC always get sooty and the 45 acp's just look better and probably function better.

I still don't understand washing. I dump 'em in the bags to keep segregated, toss 'em in the cleaner and let them run a few hours. No work, no extra time, and they're clean.

I never could get what I considered a satisfactory answer on corncob vs walnut. Guess walnut is "100 grit" and corncob is "220 grit" . thanks for the post

[bullet44]

I don't care how you do it but clean
is always better.!!!!!!

[Alex Johnson]

Isn't it easier to see serious corrosion or hairline cracks in brass that is clean and well polished? Also, I've seen a few cases where cobwebs and other foreign material becomes trapped inside the cases where it could created some dangerous results if it is not caught. I think clean, reasonably well polished brass would help to avoid some of these potential problems.

[C.R.Sam]

Have friend who dried freshly washed cases in microwave.

Entertaining corona show but not recommended.

Sam