9mm G19 124 &147gn projectiles

NorthIDIndependent · July 2, 2019, 11:15 AM

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.

I've loaded 9x19 for about a year now, always for a friend who was partial to a hot loaded 115gr Gold Dot for carry in his Ruger LC9. Hs-6 Is the powder I used, and it worked well for stanard and +p loads.
I've never thought much of 9x19, The list of its best attributes begin with its effective terminal ballistics with relatively low recoil, and doesn't end at the cartridges highly available, inexpensive, petite package.
However, with all the cartridge choices available, my interests were elsewhere.

Then my brother gave me a great deal on a G19-4. My first autoloader.
So now im shooting 9's.
QUESTION: How hot can you load in a stock g19 chamber?
I started loading 124gr v-crowns with my Hs-6

6.0gn- 6.8gn Hs-6
6.8 was the cleanest and averaged 1158 fps. I like this load and filled my mags with it.

I then bought some 124gr Nosler JHP to load a cheaper plinking/ stockpile load.
I basically did the same work up, ended up with 1150fps with 6.8gr Hs-6, again, I like the load.
Both hollow points expand and penetrate well in phone books soaked to 65% water by weight.

Then I experimented with Bullseye powder for lighter 9x19 loads. Good results with both 124gr JHPs I was using. I liked the 4.2gr load the best pushing the 124s around 1050 fps. And then 4.4gr to 4.7gn worked well for the 115gn bullets at 1100-1150fps. I think I should load some of these Light bullseye 9x19s for my friends Lc9 as its a tiny gun that just wants to jump outta your hand upon recoil. I think the velocities will be similar in the short barrel and i think he'd prefer the recoil impulse. Anyone out there carry a compact 9mm with lighter loads like these?

After that Bullseye experiment I bought some locally made 150gr Fsj .356 bullets. lead RNFP shape, silicone jacket. I decided id use jacketed 147gr data and work up just until there was reliable cycling in the G19 for a plinking load.
Using bullseye I had good cycling at 3.0gn and a short 1.090 Oal for best feed. but, 3.2 ran just a little bit cleaner so I settled on that. Never chronoed the load, it's just for plinking.

I wanted to use the same 150 gn bullet for a 9mm +p outdoorsman sort of load, so, using jacketed 147gr data I loaded from 4.2gn-5gn Hs-6 the 5gn didn't show much sign of pressure so i loaded to 5.2 gn and hope to chrono that load this week.
QUESTION: How hot would you Load this 150gr Powder Coated lead 9mm with HS-6 in a g19? Is 5.2gr In the +p range or Just under it? I'd like to load into the +p range for an outdoorsman load.

I've just recently bought 147gr winchester JHPs haven't been able to chrono those yet either but I wanted to load them to +p range to achieve about 975-1000 fps so I loaded 4.8,5.0, 5.2, 5.4gn of Hs-6. All shot fine 5.4gn was the cleanest burn and only primers that looked Like +p pressure.
QUESTION: Is that too hot or merely +p, in your opinion?
5.4gn also expanded the best in wet phone book, I'd like to settle on that load, Id just like a second opinion on the Glocks ability to handle the load. \

Basically, how hot can I load in a G19 gen4?. I dont need anything over +p but I'd like to safely travel into +p territories.

lordvader · July 2, 2019, 12:53 PM

Have never used those powders you listed, but have loaded with titegroup and AA7. I load to near max for 9mm, as far as, the standard load data goes. My preferred weight is a 124 grain in either a plated or FMJ. I have never loaded to +P, however, the G19 will handle +P loads, per the info I was given by Glock. I asked about +P+ ammo, and was informed not to use +P+ ammo in the Glock pistols. I would think that if a G19 can handle +P loads, then, logic dictates that you can technically use the max charge from a reloading manual using 9mm standard data. Some manuals have a separate listing for +P loads for 9mm and 38 specials.

Marco Califo · July 4, 2019, 12:28 AM

How hot you can go?
Published Max Loads +P
But I have to say: What you should be loading for is maximum energy to be transferred to the target. Try this calculator. Make sure you try lighter bullets going faster, compare to your 9mm 147.
http://www.shooterscalculator.com/bu...tic-energy.php
What you will find is that lighter bullets going faster deliver more energy on target than heavy for caliber bullets, both loaded to max loads. This is why I gave up on 147 gr 9mm. Last 9mm bullets I ordered were Barnes 95 gr, because they deliver more energy than the 115 and 125 Barnes bullets (all loaded to max). The Barnes are all copper bullets. They do not make a copper 147 gr. It would be too long, and too slow, and low energy.

NorthIDIndependent · July 4, 2019, 10:48 AM

I don’t load for energy foot pounds. I’ve realized from my own hunting experience, while energy does mater, shot placement and penetration are paramount. I generally prefer the mid- heavy projectiles because they have a better balance between momentum and energy transfer I like the 124s and 135s the best. I Perfer 140- 158gr projectiles for 357 loads. I take more stock in powerfactor over energey.
If I could buy 135gr quality JHP I probably would. But if I can push a 147 with a 140 PF, I’m going to like the results. Heavy projectiles just tend to work better. I also trust in the length of the bullet to cause damage if it’s to tumble into a target. I want these 147gr pushed between 950- 1050 FPS range. I think they’ll have enough energy. All that being said I like the 124s 1150fps for defensive carry.

Marco Califo · July 4, 2019, 09:40 PM

115 and 124 FMJ 9mm is known for over-penetration. Congresswoman Giffords took a ball round to the head, through and through and she lived minus some gray matter. This was standard commercial 9mm 115 at high velocity bought at Walmart by a headcase.

So, you think you need deeper penetration?

And that a heavier, and slower, bullet with less energy will give you that?

FMJ 9mm do not have an under-penetration weakness. Over-penetration, and lack of energy transfer to the target, are the problems that gave rise to the 40 S&W as the dominant LE chambering.

Here are actual penetration tests. Look for the FMJ's:
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/sel...tic-tests/#9mm

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...ration.339656/

Mike / Tx · July 5, 2019, 04:55 AM

Like you, I've historically never been a huge fan of the 9mm. However during the shortages I found that I could still manage to shoot a bunch by dropping the big bores and picking up a 9.

That said I cast my own bullet which also allowed me to not only stretch my alloy but to also choose the weight and types of bullets I was shooting. I also found that the 115 and 124gr Berry thick plate could be affordable and loaded to upper end loads with no issues and excellent accuracy. I've never really had any big desire to go +P but with the proper bullet there's really no reason to.

Powders I have found to be the overall best were as you already notes Bullseye, and as someone else noted AA7. Another couple I found that worked really well were BE86 and CFE Pistol. In the first 6 months of starting to load for this caliber I somehow managed to run through around 9K rounds and acquire several pistols. Good thing I'm not overly fond of the 9mm.

My advise would be to not get overly hung on the top end loads. The pressure in this small case can and does jump sometimes very unexpectedly. Any load hitting 1000fps or so is going to certainly do most anything needed within the design realm of the caliber.

Good luck, be safe, and good shooting.

pctechdude · July 6, 2019, 02:24 AM

CAUTION: The following post (or a page linked to) includes or discusses loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge (QuickLOAD or Gordon's Reloading Tool data is not professionally tested). USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.

If you're looking to push a 147gr bullet to those speeds, look at power pistol, and BE-86. Prefer BE-86 myself, since it is flash suppressed.

This load was derived from a certain factory cartridge that uses a longer bullet and the same powder. It was worked up to and in my testing mirrored the factory performance.

My go-to load in 147gr is a Speer gold dot, 5.4gr BE-86 at 1.120" in starline brass and a cci small pistol primer.

From a Glock 19, you should be around 1050fps. This is a standard pressure load, according to the factory ammo it's derived from. The same factory cartridge in plus p which has been discontinued, was 5.6gr BE-86.

If you want a little more oomph check out vhitavouri 3n38. I've replaced the xtp in 147gr with 147gr gold dot and Remington golden sabers and achieved 1130fps with a federal primer. Their claimed velocity is 1200fps but I have yet to achieve that.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

armoredman · July 7, 2019, 02:42 AM

My go to PLINKING load of Bullseye is 4 gr flat, nicely accurate with 124 gr cast lead MBC IDA 6 bullet. That's the only powder you list that I have used, and I just started using it very recently due to a gift. I like it.
Mostly I use Accurate Arms #7 and 8 grains of that does well with 124 gr XTPs, but I don't load for max speed/hotter than Hades doorknob loads.

If it will expand reliably and hit what I aim at I'm good. 6.5 gr AA#7 works beautifully for me with cast loads, too, BTW.

July 2, 2019, 11:15 AM	#1
NorthIDIndependent Member Join Date: November 21, 2018 Location: Idaho Posts: 44	9mm G19 124 &147gn projectiles CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information. I've loaded 9x19 for about a year now, always for a friend who was partial to a hot loaded 115gr Gold Dot for carry in his Ruger LC9. Hs-6 Is the powder I used, and it worked well for stanard and +p loads. I've never thought much of 9x19, The list of its best attributes begin with its effective terminal ballistics with relatively low recoil, and doesn't end at the cartridges highly available, inexpensive, petite package. However, with all the cartridge choices available, my interests were elsewhere. Then my brother gave me a great deal on a G19-4. My first autoloader. So now im shooting 9's. QUESTION: How hot can you load in a stock g19 chamber? I started loading 124gr v-crowns with my Hs-6 6.0gn- 6.8gn Hs-6 6.8 was the cleanest and averaged 1158 fps. I like this load and filled my mags with it. I then bought some 124gr Nosler JHP to load a cheaper plinking/ stockpile load. I basically did the same work up, ended up with 1150fps with 6.8gr Hs-6, again, I like the load. Both hollow points expand and penetrate well in phone books soaked to 65% water by weight. Then I experimented with Bullseye powder for lighter 9x19 loads. Good results with both 124gr JHPs I was using. I liked the 4.2gr load the best pushing the 124s around 1050 fps. And then 4.4gr to 4.7gn worked well for the 115gn bullets at 1100-1150fps. I think I should load some of these Light bullseye 9x19s for my friends Lc9 as its a tiny gun that just wants to jump outta your hand upon recoil. I think the velocities will be similar in the short barrel and i think he'd prefer the recoil impulse. Anyone out there carry a compact 9mm with lighter loads like these? After that Bullseye experiment I bought some locally made 150gr Fsj .356 bullets. lead RNFP shape, silicone jacket. I decided id use jacketed 147gr data and work up just until there was reliable cycling in the G19 for a plinking load. Using bullseye I had good cycling at 3.0gn and a short 1.090 Oal for best feed. but, 3.2 ran just a little bit cleaner so I settled on that. Never chronoed the load, it's just for plinking. I wanted to use the same 150 gn bullet for a 9mm +p outdoorsman sort of load, so, using jacketed 147gr data I loaded from 4.2gn-5gn Hs-6 the 5gn didn't show much sign of pressure so i loaded to 5.2 gn and hope to chrono that load this week. QUESTION: How hot would you Load this 150gr Powder Coated lead 9mm with HS-6 in a g19? Is 5.2gr In the +p range or Just under it? I'd like to load into the +p range for an outdoorsman load. I've just recently bought 147gr winchester JHPs haven't been able to chrono those yet either but I wanted to load them to +p range to achieve about 975-1000 fps so I loaded 4.8,5.0, 5.2, 5.4gn of Hs-6. All shot fine 5.4gn was the cleanest burn and only primers that looked Like +p pressure. QUESTION: Is that too hot or merely +p, in your opinion? 5.4gn also expanded the best in wet phone book, I'd like to settle on that load, Id just like a second opinion on the Glocks ability to handle the load. \ Basically, how hot can I load in a G19 gen4?. I dont need anything over +p but I'd like to safely travel into +p territories. __________________ CAUTION: This post may include loading data beyond published pressure spec.. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information. Last edited by NorthIDIndependent; July 2, 2019 at 11:21 AM. Reason: Caution

July 4, 2019, 12:28 AM	#3
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,601	How hot you can go? Published Max Loads +P But I have to say: What you should be loading for is maximum energy to be transferred to the target. Try this calculator. Make sure you try lighter bullets going faster, compare to your 9mm 147. http://www.shooterscalculator.com/bu...tic-energy.php What you will find is that lighter bullets going faster deliver more energy on target than heavy for caliber bullets, both loaded to max loads. This is why I gave up on 147 gr 9mm. Last 9mm bullets I ordered were Barnes 95 gr, because they deliver more energy than the 115 and 125 Barnes bullets (all loaded to max). The Barnes are all copper bullets. They do not make a copper 147 gr. It would be too long, and too slow, and low energy. __________________ ............

July 4, 2019, 10:48 AM	#4
NorthIDIndependent Member Join Date: November 21, 2018 Location: Idaho Posts: 44	I don’t load for energy foot pounds. I’ve realized from my own hunting experience, while energy does mater, shot placement and penetration are paramount. I generally prefer the mid- heavy projectiles because they have a better balance between momentum and energy transfer I like the 124s and 135s the best. I Perfer 140- 158gr projectiles for 357 loads. I take more stock in powerfactor over energey. If I could buy 135gr quality JHP I probably would. But if I can push a 147 with a 140 PF, I’m going to like the results. Heavy projectiles just tend to work better. I also trust in the length of the bullet to cause damage if it’s to tumble into a target. I want these 147gr pushed between 950- 1050 FPS range. I think they’ll have enough energy. All that being said I like the 124s 1150fps for defensive carry. __________________ CAUTION: This post may include loading data beyond published pressure spec.. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

July 4, 2019, 09:40 PM	#5
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,601	9mm is known for over penetration 115 and 124 FMJ 9mm is known for over-penetration. Congresswoman Giffords took a ball round to the head, through and through and she lived minus some gray matter. This was standard commercial 9mm 115 at high velocity bought at Walmart by a headcase. So, you think you need deeper penetration? And that a heavier, and slower, bullet with less energy will give you that? FMJ 9mm do not have an under-penetration weakness. Over-penetration, and lack of energy transfer to the target, are the problems that gave rise to the 40 S&W as the dominant LE chambering. Here are actual penetration tests. Look for the FMJ's: https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/sel...tic-tests/#9mm https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...ration.339656/ __________________ ............

July 5, 2019, 04:55 AM	#6
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	Like you, I've historically never been a huge fan of the 9mm. However during the shortages I found that I could still manage to shoot a bunch by dropping the big bores and picking up a 9. That said I cast my own bullet which also allowed me to not only stretch my alloy but to also choose the weight and types of bullets I was shooting. I also found that the 115 and 124gr Berry thick plate could be affordable and loaded to upper end loads with no issues and excellent accuracy. I've never really had any big desire to go +P but with the proper bullet there's really no reason to. Powders I have found to be the overall best were as you already notes Bullseye, and as someone else noted AA7. Another couple I found that worked really well were BE86 and CFE Pistol. In the first 6 months of starting to load for this caliber I somehow managed to run through around 9K rounds and acquire several pistols. Good thing I'm not overly fond of the 9mm. My advise would be to not get overly hung on the top end loads. The pressure in this small case can and does jump sometimes very unexpectedly. Any load hitting 1000fps or so is going to certainly do most anything needed within the design realm of the caliber. Good luck, be safe, and good shooting. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

July 2, 2019, 12:53 PM	#2
lordvader Member Join Date: September 30, 2015 Posts: 86	Have never used those powders you listed, but have loaded with titegroup and AA7. I load to near max for 9mm, as far as, the standard load data goes. My preferred weight is a 124 grain in either a plated or FMJ. I have never loaded to +P, however, the G19 will handle +P loads, per the info I was given by Glock. I asked about +P+ ammo, and was informed not to use +P+ ammo in the Glock pistols. I would think that if a G19 can handle +P loads, then, logic dictates that you can technically use the max charge from a reloading manual using 9mm standard data. Some manuals have a separate listing for +P loads for 9mm and 38 specials.

July 6, 2019, 02:24 AM	#7
pctechdude Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2013 Posts: 159	CAUTION: The following post (or a page linked to) includes or discusses loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge (QuickLOAD or Gordon's Reloading Tool data is not professionally tested). USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information. If you're looking to push a 147gr bullet to those speeds, look at power pistol, and BE-86. Prefer BE-86 myself, since it is flash suppressed. This load was derived from a certain factory cartridge that uses a longer bullet and the same powder. It was worked up to and in my testing mirrored the factory performance. My go-to load in 147gr is a Speer gold dot, 5.4gr BE-86 at 1.120" in starline brass and a cci small pistol primer. From a Glock 19, you should be around 1050fps. This is a standard pressure load, according to the factory ammo it's derived from. The same factory cartridge in plus p which has been discontinued, was 5.6gr BE-86. If you want a little more oomph check out vhitavouri 3n38. I've replaced the xtp in 147gr with 147gr gold dot and Remington golden sabers and achieved 1130fps with a federal primer. Their claimed velocity is 1200fps but I have yet to achieve that. Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

July 7, 2019, 02:42 AM	#8
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,299	My go to PLINKING load of Bullseye is 4 gr flat, nicely accurate with 124 gr cast lead MBC IDA 6 bullet. That's the only powder you list that I have used, and I just started using it very recently due to a gift. I like it. Mostly I use Accurate Arms #7 and 8 grains of that does well with 124 gr XTPs, but I don't load for max speed/hotter than Hades doorknob loads. If it will expand reliably and hit what I aim at I'm good. 6.5 gr AA#7 works beautifully for me with cast loads, too, BTW.