First Time Reloader - Questions

0302Grendel · January 27, 2012, 07:21 PM

Started reloading about a month ago. I have a 6.5 Grendel, and figured I would try my hand at it. Have helped a couple of buddies in the past reload, so I had a general idea of what I was doing. Got all the gear together, read a lot, watched videos on U-tube, and asked questions from friends who have been reloading. After all my research, I had a couple of weird things happened today while seating bullets in my brass.

Equipment - RCBS Rock Chucker with Lee dies, RCBS dial micrometer.

Material - Lapua Scenar 123gr bullets, Hornady once fired brass trimmed to 2.10, PPU once fired brass trimmed to 2.10, Win 748 powder (28.5g). Primers were a mix of CCI 450, Win 205M, Rem 7 ½ and Win WLR. Purpose of this session was to see how the primers performed in my rifle.

Issues – when seating the bullets in the PPU brass, there was a WIDE variation of seating depths – OAL from 2.70 to 2.55. Did not have this problem with the Hornady brass, all were within .01 of my seating OAL target of 2.64. I used a brass puller to pull the short rounds, and adjusted my press to get the OAL within my target length with the long ones. Still had to play with the seating depth on all bullets that were off to get to my desired OAL. There seemed to be no issue with neck tension, as all the bullets were a pain to pull.

Has anyone seen this before? Am I gooning something up? Is it unsafe to fire these bullets?
Thanks in advance.

flashhole · January 27, 2012, 07:27 PM

Sounds like you may hae an issue with the seating stem not having sufficiently deep inlet to handle the pointy bullet. You might take it out of the die and examine how the bullet fits the stem. The seat stem should capture the bullet somewhere on the ogive of the bullet, not put pressure on the tip of the bullet during seating. The bullets will have varying lengths because of irregularities in the tip. This variable is omitted when the seating datum is on the ogive and the "jump" to the lands is consistent aiding in better repeatability.

0302Grendel · January 28, 2012, 10:08 PM

OK...are they still safe to fire?

Jim243 · January 29, 2012, 12:14 AM

The SHORT answer would be NO. In checking Hogdgon's web-site nothing was listed in the powder you were using for a 123 grain (gr. not g.) bullet. Also it would appear from the listings they do have (for other powders), that 28.5 grains (not grams) of powder may be a bit too hot. But I can not comfirm this since there is no listing for this powder in ANY 6.5 Grendel loading for ANY weight.

I do not know where you got your load data from, but if it was me I would break them all apart and start with a new pound of powder that is recomended by Hogdgon for that caliber and weight bullet. H4198 or IMR 4198 should work well.

As to that bullet, the only 123 grain bullets I am aware of are for the 7.62x39, and are you sure those are the correct bullets for the 6.5 and are not in fact the .310 for the AK-47 or SKS.

Jim

mrawesome22 · January 29, 2012, 01:01 AM

At 2.640" OAL, QuickLoad says the shank of the bullet is not even in the case. It says the shank is still .039" away from the case mouth.

So I have no clue what is going on here.

To have .100" of the shank seated into the case, it's showing a OAL of 2.502"

Unless Lapua changed the dimensions of the bullet?

At OAL of 2.502", with a 22" barrel, QL is predicting 47,874PSI with a MV of 2,509fps.

EDIT: Do you have any of the shank seated in the case or are you just seating the boat tail somehow?

EDIT2: Some people recommend seating at least a bullet diameter's worth of shank into the case, which would give you a maximum OAL of 2.338" which is still pretty long compared to factory ammo specs of 2.250" OAL.

EDIT3: Just noticed this.

Quote:

Hornady once fired brass trimmed to 2.10, PPU once fired brass trimmed to 2.10

Case length for the 6.5Grendel is 1.525 max.

Sport45 · January 29, 2012, 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0302Grendel

Issues – when seating the bullets in the PPU brass, there was a WIDE variation of seating depths – OAL from 2.70 to 2.55.

That's a quarter-inch of variance. Are you sure you're getting all the zero's in there or the decimal in the right place?

The seating die should put you pretty close to the same overall length no matter what brass is used. The only variance should be in individual bullet geometry.

flashhole · January 29, 2012, 08:04 AM

Please post a picture of your ammo with ruler so we can see what is going on. Too much uncertainty in your written text for us to be of any value solving the problem.

Dave P · January 29, 2012, 08:21 AM

I think the OP is very confused - and prolly should not be reloading. Errors on multiple levels.

Dimensions are way off. Wrong powder.

Now, if you do shoot 28 gr of 748 in 6.5 grendel, your pressure will be about 58k psi - which is way over the 52k psi limit.

Ya think the receiver will self-destruct at that pressure??

mrawesome22 · January 29, 2012, 08:01 PM

Bump hoping this guy comes back and confirms he didn't blow himself or someone else up.

0302Grendel · February 26, 2012, 05:54 PM

All - did not blow myself, rifle or anyone else up. I did have a couple of misprints in my first post, due to being distracted while typing (not while reloading). My case length was 1.510, and overall case length was 2.264. The PPU rounds were measuring at 2.255 to 2.270. I confirmed this with the written notes I made when reloading (should have paid more attention to them while writing my post instead of relying on a faulty memory and being distracted by CiNC House). Fired the rounds at the range, OK groups (sub MOA at 100yds), a little low from the factory Alexander Arms ammo I used as a baseline. Policed all my brass, no split casings or other obvious damage or discoloration.

As far as where I got my load data - directly from Alexander Arms home page, confirmed on the 6.5 Grendel Forum concerning powder type and amount. At 28.5g of Win 748, I was well below max load (varies from 30.3 or 30.5 depending on which source you want to use). Only variation I used was to seat the bullets .001 shorter to ensure fit in magazine.

As to measuring overall length, I used dial calipers from the tip of the bullet to the base (rim) of the casing as annotated in picture in the 9th edition of the ABCs of reloading on pg 127. While using a headspace gage would be more accurate, the overall length is more critical when you are firing rounds from a magazine loaded weapon to ensure that the rounds will not bind in the magazine – at least that is my understanding. At 2.264, there was just a little space between the tip of the bullet and the magazine wall. Next batch will be seated at 2.265.

Thanks to all for the feedback, but the issue still stands with the variations in the PPU relaods. I think Flashhole may have the best answer to my problem, but I would think the variation would show up when using the Hornady brass also.

Sorry, no pictures as the digital camera is broken.

January 27, 2012, 07:21 PM	#1
0302Grendel Junior Member Join Date: January 24, 2012 Posts: 6	First Time Reloader - Questions Started reloading about a month ago. I have a 6.5 Grendel, and figured I would try my hand at it. Have helped a couple of buddies in the past reload, so I had a general idea of what I was doing. Got all the gear together, read a lot, watched videos on U-tube, and asked questions from friends who have been reloading. After all my research, I had a couple of weird things happened today while seating bullets in my brass. Equipment - RCBS Rock Chucker with Lee dies, RCBS dial micrometer. Material - Lapua Scenar 123gr bullets, Hornady once fired brass trimmed to 2.10, PPU once fired brass trimmed to 2.10, Win 748 powder (28.5g). Primers were a mix of CCI 450, Win 205M, Rem 7 ½ and Win WLR. Purpose of this session was to see how the primers performed in my rifle. Issues – when seating the bullets in the PPU brass, there was a WIDE variation of seating depths – OAL from 2.70 to 2.55. Did not have this problem with the Hornady brass, all were within .01 of my seating OAL target of 2.64. I used a brass puller to pull the short rounds, and adjusted my press to get the OAL within my target length with the long ones. Still had to play with the seating depth on all bullets that were off to get to my desired OAL. There seemed to be no issue with neck tension, as all the bullets were a pain to pull. Has anyone seen this before? Am I gooning something up? Is it unsafe to fire these bullets? Thanks in advance.

January 27, 2012, 07:27 PM	#2
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	Sounds like you may hae an issue with the seating stem not having sufficiently deep inlet to handle the pointy bullet. You might take it out of the die and examine how the bullet fits the stem. The seat stem should capture the bullet somewhere on the ogive of the bullet, not put pressure on the tip of the bullet during seating. The bullets will have varying lengths because of irregularities in the tip. This variable is omitted when the seating datum is on the ogive and the "jump" to the lands is consistent aiding in better repeatability. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

January 29, 2012, 12:14 AM	#4
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	The SHORT answer would be NO. In checking Hogdgon's web-site nothing was listed in the powder you were using for a 123 grain (gr. not g.) bullet. Also it would appear from the listings they do have (for other powders), that 28.5 grains (not grams) of powder may be a bit too hot. But I can not comfirm this since there is no listing for this powder in ANY 6.5 Grendel loading for ANY weight. I do not know where you got your load data from, but if it was me I would break them all apart and start with a new pound of powder that is recomended by Hogdgon for that caliber and weight bullet. H4198 or IMR 4198 should work well. As to that bullet, the only 123 grain bullets I am aware of are for the 7.62x39, and are you sure those are the correct bullets for the 6.5 and are not in fact the .310 for the AK-47 or SKS. Jim __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum Last edited by Jim243; January 29, 2012 at 12:28 AM.

January 29, 2012, 08:04 AM	#7
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	Please post a picture of your ammo with ruler so we can see what is going on. Too much uncertainty in your written text for us to be of any value solving the problem. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

January 29, 2012, 08:21 AM	#8
Dave P Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Location: North Florida Posts: 1,346	I think the OP is very confused - and prolly should not be reloading. Errors on multiple levels. Dimensions are way off. Wrong powder. Now, if you do shoot 28 gr of 748 in 6.5 grendel, your pressure will be about 58k psi - which is way over the 52k psi limit. Ya think the receiver will self-destruct at that pressure?? __________________ I think this country is screwed.

January 28, 2012, 10:08 PM	#3
0302Grendel Junior Member Join Date: January 24, 2012 Posts: 6	OK...are they still safe to fire?

January 29, 2012, 08:01 PM	#9
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Bump hoping this guy comes back and confirms he didn't blow himself or someone else up.

February 26, 2012, 05:54 PM	#10
0302Grendel Junior Member Join Date: January 24, 2012 Posts: 6	All - did not blow myself, rifle or anyone else up. I did have a couple of misprints in my first post, due to being distracted while typing (not while reloading). My case length was 1.510, and overall case length was 2.264. The PPU rounds were measuring at 2.255 to 2.270. I confirmed this with the written notes I made when reloading (should have paid more attention to them while writing my post instead of relying on a faulty memory and being distracted by CiNC House). Fired the rounds at the range, OK groups (sub MOA at 100yds), a little low from the factory Alexander Arms ammo I used as a baseline. Policed all my brass, no split casings or other obvious damage or discoloration. As far as where I got my load data - directly from Alexander Arms home page, confirmed on the 6.5 Grendel Forum concerning powder type and amount. At 28.5g of Win 748, I was well below max load (varies from 30.3 or 30.5 depending on which source you want to use). Only variation I used was to seat the bullets .001 shorter to ensure fit in magazine. As to measuring overall length, I used dial calipers from the tip of the bullet to the base (rim) of the casing as annotated in picture in the 9th edition of the ABCs of reloading on pg 127. While using a headspace gage would be more accurate, the overall length is more critical when you are firing rounds from a magazine loaded weapon to ensure that the rounds will not bind in the magazine – at least that is my understanding. At 2.264, there was just a little space between the tip of the bullet and the magazine wall. Next batch will be seated at 2.265. Thanks to all for the feedback, but the issue still stands with the variations in the PPU relaods. I think Flashhole may have the best answer to my problem, but I would think the variation would show up when using the Hornady brass also. Sorry, no pictures as the digital camera is broken. Last edited by 0302Grendel; February 26, 2012 at 06:15 PM.

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