The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 3, 2013, 12:57 AM   #1
JimDandy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,556
Is there a way to hoist Congress on their own interstate trade petard?

Not being a lawyer, all I have are ephemeral concepts of these ideas here... But it seems to be if some guy can be engaged in interstate trade in 1939 just by taking a shotgun from one state to another, not even attempting to sell it, but just by crossing state lines with it...

It seems to me through incorporation, equal protection, and interstate trade there has to be some way to turn all of this stuff back on them...
JimDandy is offline  
Old February 3, 2013, 01:46 AM   #2
vranasaurus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 16, 2008
Posts: 1,184
The commerce clause has been interpreted very broadly since the mid 1930's. You can't just throw a bunch of legal principles out there. Absent an about face by the Supreme Court or a constitutional amendment congress will continue to exercise considerable authority under the commerce clause.
vranasaurus is offline  
Old February 3, 2013, 01:57 AM   #3
LockedBreech
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 6, 2009
Location: Rocky Mountain West
Posts: 3,395
The Obamacare loss might be a major victory in the long run. That opinion expressly limited the commerce clause in some new ways.
LockedBreech is offline  
Old February 3, 2013, 01:07 PM   #4
JimDandy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,556
Quote:
The commerce clause has been interpreted very broadly since the mid 1930's. You can't just throw a bunch of legal principles out there. Absent an about face by the Supreme Court or a constitutional amendment congress will continue to exercise considerable authority under the commerce clause.
Right. I'm not saying anything about rolling the commerce clause back. Just wondering if it's possible to apply other decisions in such a way to the commerce clause that we get something out of the interpretation of said clause out there already.
JimDandy is offline  
Old February 3, 2013, 03:32 PM   #5
speedrrracer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2011
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 317
Probably not. The commerce clause is an enumerated power of the government in the Constitution. So, it's sort of on the same level as your rights as an individual.

So the courts are going to protect it in a VERY meaningful way.

If the govt starts using the commerce clause to prevent you from exercising free speech or going to church, OK, sure, SCOTUS will slap them down a notch, but only far enough to carve out the space necessary for you to go to church or speak or whatever.

If the govt were to use interstate commerce to put a de facto ban on ammunition, sure, the courts would probably step in, but again, it would be another carveout to protect ammo suppliers / mfrs / delivery, etc, not a sweeping restriction on the govt, because the govt must retain their enumerated power just as much as you must retain your right to go to church or have a gun for lawful purposes.
speedrrracer is offline  
Old February 3, 2013, 05:13 PM   #6
JimDandy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,556
I don't think I'm being clear... I mean can't we flip it on it's ear... if Congress passes a law that says something is federally legal.. can't we use interstate commerce to incorporate such a finding into a jurisdiction for those people engaging in interstate commerce by traveling from a jurisdiction it's legal to a jurisdiction it's illegal by state/local law? Essentially preempting those state/local laws for non-residents?
JimDandy is offline  
Old February 3, 2013, 05:55 PM   #7
speedrrracer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2011
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 317
OK, maybe I'm seeing a bit of the light...let's test my understanding

So Federally, there's the NFA. It's theoretically possible to get certain weapons / accessories only under it's auspices.

Here in CA; however, pretty much all NFA stuff is illegal, with a coupla minor exceptions. So you are saying that if I were "engaged in interstate commerce", then I could, theoretically, find sympathy from a court if I were to have an otherwise-legal NFA weapon here in CA?

Not saying that's a great scenario, but is that somewhat demonstrative of what you're trying to accomplish?
speedrrracer is offline  
Old February 3, 2013, 10:11 PM   #8
JimDandy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2012
Posts: 2,556
Yeah more or less....Assuming you are not a CA state resident, and thus engaged in Interstate trade, like Miller was with his Shotgun... had Miller been legally in possession of that shotgun...
JimDandy is offline  
Old February 3, 2013, 10:39 PM   #9
btmj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 1, 2011
Location: Near St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 864
If lawful CCW holders from 48 states can not travel to NY or IL to conduct business, it would seem to me that those states are interfering with interstate trade..... In the same way that southern states were interfering with interstate trade by mandating segregated hotels 50 years ago.

Particularly egregious is the unplanned airline stop in NY or Chicago by a traveler who has a handgun in checked baggage.
btmj is offline  
Old February 4, 2013, 09:51 AM   #10
Rifleman1776
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 25, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,309
Already been said. The commerce clause is broad and even more widely (mis?)interpreted. Nothing we can do about it except pick wisely at election time.
Rifleman1776 is offline  
Old February 4, 2013, 08:27 PM   #11
raimius
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2008
Posts: 2,199
I doubt it. The concept of local authorities making more restrictive laws is fairly widely accepted (with the exception of enumerated rights).
I doubt the court would be willing to open up that kind of flood gate for a right they haven't even set a level of review for.
raimius is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.07984 seconds with 10 queries