powder

DR. Furlicker · March 25, 2008, 09:05 PM

Being somewhat new at reloading rifle ammo I have a couple questions about different powders. The only rifle rounds I've loaded to this point have been .223 rem for my Ruger Mini 14 & M77 and Win 30.06 I used IMR4198 for all and am satisfied with the results; especialy the .06 with 155gr A Max bullets. its shooting very tight groups at 100 yds. That being said I don't hear a lot of talk about using this powder but, I do hear a lot about H335, Win748 or IMR3031. From what I read the pressures are a little lower at the about the same velosities but the loads require roughly 25% more powder resulting in more expensive shooting. Are there any advantages to using these other powders? Would the lower pressure cause problems with the cycle action of the Mini 14?

Sport45 · March 25, 2008, 10:37 PM

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Sounds like you have loads you like that work well for you. Trying different powders will involve a lot of experimenting to find their perfect load. That can be fun in itself, but time consuming and costly. You mentioned extra charge weight making your loads more expensive. It'

How much is it worth to shrink a 1" group to 3/4"? Only you can answer that one.

somerled · March 26, 2008, 03:25 AM

I have shot some of the tightest groups with my AR15 using IMR4198 and the 52 grain Sierra MatchKing BTHPs. IMR4198 works well with bullets 55 grains or lighter--producing high velocity at the top pressure range. It is one of the fastest-burning rifle powders. With bullets heavier than that, it peaks pressure-wise without producing as high of velocities as H335 or other slower burners.

I can't find data here for IMR4198 in the .30-06 using that bullet weight. Hodgdon, who distributes IMR powder, doesn't show it either. Since it is fast, I would guess it doesn't push the 155 grain A-Max to as an high of a velocity at top pressure limits as a slower burning powder such as IMR4350. If you're happy with the targets and don't need the velocity for hunting effectiveness, that isn't a problem.

DR. Furlicker · March 26, 2008, 08:03 AM

I got the 30-06 data from a 1990 IMR guide for a 150gr pt sp, 38gr@2600fps I'm just under that 37.4gr so with the A-Max bullet I'd quess the velocity should be close to the same.

Sevens · March 26, 2008, 09:14 AM

For .223 in a T/C Contender, I've tried both H335 and H4198. Here's the conclusions I came to:

H335 takes 20% more powder, like 25.0 gr as compared to 20.0 of 4198, like you said
H335 seems to show less signs of pressure than the H4198
H335 meters so damn much better, because it's a spherical powder where 4198 is extruded, and I end up slicing the little powder turds with my measure on each throw
Both seem to show me similar accuracy

So I narrowed it down to 4198 costing me a little less, but 335 metering better and with less pressure, so I pretty much go with H335.

I have seen a lot of folks see terrific accuracy from using H332 instead. The load that was recommended to me asked for a magnum primer, and I don't have any H332, so I haven't tried it.

I'd be confident with using H4198 if I ran out of H335, but given the choice between the two, it's H335 for me. (and folks don't get much more frugal than I do)

somerled · March 26, 2008, 03:51 PM

"I got the 30-06 data from a 1990 IMR guide for a 150gr pt sp, 38gr@2600fps I'm just under that 37.4gr so with the A-Max bullet I'd quess the velocity should be close to the same."

The Remington 150-grain is a flat-based bullet and the A-Max is a boat tail design and is heavier. The bearing surface of bullets plus the weight of them impacts actual velocity quite a bit in some rifles. With a slower burning powder, a 150-grain bullet can be pushed nearly 2,900 fps in a 24-inch barrel. In a 22-inch barrel, they can still break 2,800 with IMR 4350 or other slower burners.

If you are target shooting and want to save some powder, the extra velocity doesn't matter that much. If you go elk hunting, it will be more important.

I do keep IMR 4198 around because it is great for powder puff loads in .45-70s. I've used it in the .22 Hornet and a .25-20 Contender barrel. Some have used it for reduced loads using FMJ bullets to cut down pelt damage. It doesn't flow through my old RCBS Uniflow worth a damn, but it works well in my Dillon RL550B.

DR. Furlicker · March 26, 2008, 07:39 PM

I'm going to a gun show this weekend I'll buy a pound of IMR 4350 and give it a try, after all I come on here to get input from guys with some experiance. Can't learn much doing the exact same thing over and over.

somerled · March 26, 2008, 08:28 PM

Dr., look for the latest Hornady manual at the gun show. It will be worth every penny. If you're wanting to use Hornady bullets, that will sure become your primary go-to source.

Best wishes!

crowbeaner · March 28, 2008, 09:44 PM

Hey sevens, that's H322, not H332. It works just fine, too, though it seems to leave a little more residue in the gun than say RL7. 4198 (either brand) is one of the top powders for the .222; I use 21.0 with the 46 grain WW HP and it really makes a WHUP sound when it connects. I love the big cavity in the nose; it hits about like the Speer 52 grainer. .223s can be fed with slower powders than the Deuce because of the larger capacity; RL12 is really good also.

Sevens · March 29, 2008, 10:09 AM

Thanks for the correction! I've probably transposed those every other time...!

TEDDY · March 30, 2008, 06:23 PM

Dr furliker:if it aint broke dont fixit.the main problem I see is to many powders confuse.I have loaded since 1939 and now all the powders make my head spin.I stick to a few.gives less trouble.the deer wont know the difference if its 2600 or 2000.30/06 or 30/30.

--

dmb3006 · March 31, 2008, 07:49 AM

I have enjoyed testing loads for best 5&10 shoot groups at 100 yard with my 3006.A lot of the younger guys shoot .308's,and .223.I use to scoff at these cartridges,having convinced my self that cartridge developed with the 3006.My rifle liked the 168gr match bullets also the 155 boat tail bullets.Hunted with the HORNADY 150gr soft point flat base.IMR 4064 and Alliant RL#15 were the most accurate powders in my rifle.A note about this rifle It had a Douglas Premium Air gauged barrel 24inch MPI composit stock 6X24 Elite 4000 scope;and a Timney trigger glass beded,socket head action screws.I feared no rifle at 100 yards for group size.Then along came a young man with a Remington VLS rifle in .308 with a heavy barrel.He only shot Federal Match 168bthp He had Leaupold glass on the rifle 4X14.His rifle printed 1/2 to 3/4 inch groups most of the time.I could some times do the same.(Older Eyes)Both of got Mod.112 Savage Heavy barrel .223's H322 and RL#7 worked the best but IMR 4198 was not bad.Without a doubt the factory made rifles will shoot.So will the 3006.May its shadow never grow less.

March 25, 2008, 10:37 PM	#2
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Sounds like you have loads you like that work well for you. Trying different powders will involve a lot of experimenting to find their perfect load. That can be fun in itself, but time consuming and costly. You mentioned extra charge weight making your loads more expensive. It' How much is it worth to shrink a 1" group to 3/4"? Only you can answer that one. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

March 26, 2008, 09:14 AM	#5
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	For .223 in a T/C Contender, I've tried both H335 and H4198. Here's the conclusions I came to: H335 takes 20% more powder, like 25.0 gr as compared to 20.0 of 4198, like you said H335 seems to show less signs of pressure than the H4198 H335 meters so damn much better, because it's a spherical powder where 4198 is extruded, and I end up slicing the little powder turds with my measure on each throw Both seem to show me similar accuracy So I narrowed it down to 4198 costing me a little less, but 335 metering better and with less pressure, so I pretty much go with H335. I have seen a lot of folks see terrific accuracy from using H332 instead. The load that was recommended to me asked for a magnum primer, and I don't have any H332, so I haven't tried it. I'd be confident with using H4198 if I ran out of H335, but given the choice between the two, it's H335 for me. (and folks don't get much more frugal than I do) __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

March 28, 2008, 09:44 PM	#9
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	Hey sevens, that's H322, not H332. It works just fine, too, though it seems to leave a little more residue in the gun than say RL7. 4198 (either brand) is one of the top powders for the .222; I use 21.0 with the 46 grain WW HP and it really makes a WHUP sound when it connects. I love the big cavity in the nose; it hits about like the Speer 52 grainer. .223s can be fed with slower powders than the Deuce because of the larger capacity; RL12 is really good also. __________________ If you want your children to follow in your footsteps, be careful where you walk. Beware the man that only owns one gun; he probably knows how to use it. I just hope my ship comes in before my dock rots.

March 29, 2008, 10:09 AM	#10
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Thanks for the correction! I've probably transposed those every other time...! __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

March 30, 2008, 06:23 PM	#11
TEDDY Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 837	powders Dr furliker:if it aint broke dont fixit.the main problem I see is to many powders confuse.I have loaded since 1939 and now all the powders make my head spin.I stick to a few.gives less trouble.the deer wont know the difference if its 2600 or 2000.30/06 or 30/30.--

March 25, 2008, 09:05 PM	#1
DR. Furlicker Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Posts: 33	powder Being somewhat new at reloading rifle ammo I have a couple questions about different powders. The only rifle rounds I've loaded to this point have been .223 rem for my Ruger Mini 14 & M77 and Win 30.06 I used IMR4198 for all and am satisfied with the results; especialy the .06 with 155gr A Max bullets. its shooting very tight groups at 100 yds. That being said I don't hear a lot of talk about using this powder but, I do hear a lot about H335, Win748 or IMR3031. From what I read the pressures are a little lower at the about the same velosities but the loads require roughly 25% more powder resulting in more expensive shooting. Are there any advantages to using these other powders? Would the lower pressure cause problems with the cycle action of the Mini 14?

March 26, 2008, 03:25 AM	#3
somerled Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2005 Location: eastern Kansas Posts: 603	I have shot some of the tightest groups with my AR15 using IMR4198 and the 52 grain Sierra MatchKing BTHPs. IMR4198 works well with bullets 55 grains or lighter--producing high velocity at the top pressure range. It is one of the fastest-burning rifle powders. With bullets heavier than that, it peaks pressure-wise without producing as high of velocities as H335 or other slower burners. I can't find data here for IMR4198 in the .30-06 using that bullet weight. Hodgdon, who distributes IMR powder, doesn't show it either. Since it is fast, I would guess it doesn't push the 155 grain A-Max to as an high of a velocity at top pressure limits as a slower burning powder such as IMR4350. If you're happy with the targets and don't need the velocity for hunting effectiveness, that isn't a problem.

March 26, 2008, 08:03 AM	#4
DR. Furlicker Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Posts: 33	I got the 30-06 data from a 1990 IMR guide for a 150gr pt sp, 38gr@2600fps I'm just under that 37.4gr so with the A-Max bullet I'd quess the velocity should be close to the same.

March 26, 2008, 03:51 PM	#6
somerled Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2005 Location: eastern Kansas Posts: 603	"I got the 30-06 data from a 1990 IMR guide for a 150gr pt sp, 38gr@2600fps I'm just under that 37.4gr so with the A-Max bullet I'd quess the velocity should be close to the same." The Remington 150-grain is a flat-based bullet and the A-Max is a boat tail design and is heavier. The bearing surface of bullets plus the weight of them impacts actual velocity quite a bit in some rifles. With a slower burning powder, a 150-grain bullet can be pushed nearly 2,900 fps in a 24-inch barrel. In a 22-inch barrel, they can still break 2,800 with IMR 4350 or other slower burners. If you are target shooting and want to save some powder, the extra velocity doesn't matter that much. If you go elk hunting, it will be more important. I do keep IMR 4198 around because it is great for powder puff loads in .45-70s. I've used it in the .22 Hornet and a .25-20 Contender barrel. Some have used it for reduced loads using FMJ bullets to cut down pelt damage. It doesn't flow through my old RCBS Uniflow worth a damn, but it works well in my Dillon RL550B.

March 26, 2008, 07:39 PM	#7
DR. Furlicker Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Posts: 33	I'm going to a gun show this weekend I'll buy a pound of IMR 4350 and give it a try, after all I come on here to get input from guys with some experiance. Can't learn much doing the exact same thing over and over.

March 26, 2008, 08:28 PM	#8
somerled Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2005 Location: eastern Kansas Posts: 603	Dr., look for the latest Hornady manual at the gun show. It will be worth every penny. If you're wanting to use Hornady bullets, that will sure become your primary go-to source. Best wishes!

March 31, 2008, 07:49 AM	#12
dmb3006 Member Join Date: January 15, 2008 Posts: 38	Powder in the 3006 Springfield I have enjoyed testing loads for best 5&10 shoot groups at 100 yard with my 3006.A lot of the younger guys shoot .308's,and .223.I use to scoff at these cartridges,having convinced my self that cartridge developed with the 3006.My rifle liked the 168gr match bullets also the 155 boat tail bullets.Hunted with the HORNADY 150gr soft point flat base.IMR 4064 and Alliant RL#15 were the most accurate powders in my rifle.A note about this rifle It had a Douglas Premium Air gauged barrel 24inch MPI composit stock 6X24 Elite 4000 scope;and a Timney trigger glass beded,socket head action screws.I feared no rifle at 100 yards for group size.Then along came a young man with a Remington VLS rifle in .308 with a heavy barrel.He only shot Federal Match 168bthp He had Leaupold glass on the rifle 4X14.His rifle printed 1/2 to 3/4 inch groups most of the time.I could some times do the same.(Older Eyes)Both of got Mod.112 Savage Heavy barrel .223's H322 and RL#7 worked the best but IMR 4198 was not bad.Without a doubt the factory made rifles will shoot.So will the 3006.May its shadow never grow less.